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  1. #121
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    The amount of horse meat imported in Europe HAD to be used somewhere.... now we know where it went...
    I know I took one bite of horse meat as a kid when my mom tried to feed it to us. One bite and I knew it was not beef... she claims she does not remember, but I do!
    During WWII, in the country, people somehow managed to get horse meat... but my mom's family never bothered because her grandfather would have known you could not get beef... so it had to be horse meat... and he had hidden his horses to make sure they would stay alive... He had made them a barn deep in the woods and kept them there all through the war... lots of work for him, but they were safe!


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  2. #122
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    Anyone else re-thinking their consumption of processed meat as a result of this? I sure am. So far nothing found in N. America but I suspect that is only a matter of time.

    I almost never buy frozen dinners, with the exception of meatballs from Sobeys but not sure how I feel about that anymore. http://www.sobeys.com/en/Recipes/Recipe.aspx?ID=10847.

    Does anyone if testing has been going on in N. America in light of this?
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.


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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    THAT amuses you?
    The idea that people that would not knowing ever eat horsemeat, yet were fraudulently scammed into eating it, is somehow AMUSING? People have been exposed to potential carcinigens that have been proven to cause things like aplastic anemia, yet it is AMUSING?

    yes.

    it is amusing.
    Like the people who loudly proclaimed they would NEVER eat deer...after they licked the glaze of my crock pot when DH served them free chili or Lasagne made with deer. they could not tell.

    and the way I am feeling today, bring on the bute meat, it would cut down on my pain meds for the day.
    (you really think that the residue is gonna cause all that in a person when eating a few ounces of meat? Really really?)

    hysterical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    Well, yeah. Like a label saying it is "100% Extra Virgin Olive Oil" when it is actually hazelnut oil. Kinda like selling horse labeled as beef. Especially when REAL EVOO is expensive to produce and hazelnut oil is CHEAP and plentiful.
    ....that actually sounds a million times more likely to kill someone than a person MAYBE eating enough horse over their lifetime that had bute in it to actually get sick from it (assuming they did even then; if everything that caused cancer in labs and has to be labeled as such did, most of us on this forum would be dead already from all the chemicals we use on our own horses.) One person with severe tree nut allergies eats food made with the wrong oil and BAM. Makes me wonder about my friend with nut allergies who's gotten sick despite telling waitstaff about the allergy and ordering food that doesn't contain nut products on purpose.



  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    ...Like the people who loudly proclaimed they would NEVER eat deer...after they licked the glaze of my crock pot when DH served them free chili or Lasagne made with deer. they could not tell...
    You want to read something really disgusting? Click here.
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams



  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank B View Post
    You want to read something really disgusting? Click here.
    yep.
    Outrageoous
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  7. #127
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    Donning my well worn tin hat, I will tell you what most anyone in agriculture saw coming and is here now, plenty more examples where that one is coming from and more to come.

    Once Obama was elected, he had some very powerful backers he needed to thank, some of those the mega million animal rights extremists.

    How were they thanked?
    They were put in key regulatory positions and, well, there you have it, from the silly to the serious, there has been now for a while and more to come, a continuous assault on all animal agriculture to disturb markets and bring the different industries down, from those that are supposed to regulate it.

    As they say around here, "you ain't seen anything yet", see where we are in another four years and on down the road.

    I was talking just about this with other farmers here, each one knows some sad examples.
    It is bad when your own government is working against you and what you do, just because some extremists gained the green light to do you in.

    While there is much that needs to be changed and made better, as selling one meat for another, like here, that is right down fraud and already against existing laws, that is not what is at stake here, but if we are to have any use of animals, assaulting our uses where animal rights extremists can and where any better than regulating uses out of business?

    Sadly, that includes all our uses of horses also, eventually.
    Those that can't see that coming are missing the forest by looking at a tree being whittled on, like the carriage horses in NYC and other places and saying, sad that, won't happen to MY tree.
    Lets just hope you are right.

    One other path we may take, all this be moot, the world changing so fast, we don't know where we may be in a couple more centuries, either with made to order, engineered humans and other animals, or who knows, any guess may come true and make today's concerns become obsolete.



  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    yes.

    it is amusing.
    Like the people who loudly proclaimed they would NEVER eat deer...after they licked the glaze of my crock pot when DH served them free chili or Lasagne made with deer. they could not tell.

    and the way I am feeling today, bring on the bute meat, it would cut down on my pain meds for the day.
    (you really think that the residue is gonna cause all that in a person when eating a few ounces of meat? Really really?)

    hysterical.
    So you think getting people to eat something that they would never knowingly eat, is OK. I'm sure you thought the woman who ate yogurt that the employee ejaculated in up in Albuquerque several months ago, was really a riot! And maybe we can sneak a blood transfusion in to a jehovas witness in the hospital while they sleep! Yee haw, hilarity reigns supreme.


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  9. #129
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    Quips regarding Tesco beefburgers from the UK:

    I'mso hungry I could eat a horse -- I guess Tesco just listened!

    Anyone want a burger from Tesco? Yay or Neigh?

    Not entirely sure how Tesco are going to get over this hurdle.

    Waitress in Tesco asked if I wanted anything on My Burger:
    So I had 5 quid each way.

    Had some burgers from Tesco for my tea lost nght -- I still have a bit between my teeth.

    A woman has been taken to hospital after eating horse meat burgers from Tesco. Her condition is said to be stable.

    Tesco are now testing all their vegetarian burgers for traces of unicorn.

    There are more but I'll spare you ... for now.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    So you think getting people to eat something that they would never knowingly eat, is OK. I'm sure you thought the woman who ate yogurt that the employee ejaculated in up in Albuquerque several months ago, was really a riot! And maybe we can sneak a blood transfusion in to a jehovas witness in the hospital while they sleep! Yee haw, hilarity reigns supreme.
    Sweetcheeks.....
    What happened there is FRAUD. it is illegal. It has been for centuries illegal to sell horse as beef. Pretty universal, too.

    Except for the 8 or so horses they found that may have entered the food chain (out of 200 tested, that is an easy 4 %, so my argument holds that the majority of horses 'in the food chain' are not medicated) all articles stated that the meat itself was not meant to be a health risk.

    that means, yeah, it sucks, but nobody is worse for the wear. It was - apparently - not the first time horse was dished.

    You want me to get all huffy about it?
    I am sorry, I do not have it in me.
    Should I feel sorry for a bunch of loudmouthed freeloaders that they ate Bambi instead of Norman? Are you crazy? They ate for free on my dime....if you have dietary requirements you ask before you dig in, not after you ate your fill and then some.

    However, generally speaking, the 'I would never' crowd got horse with a side of crow....

    I really don't care, as long as the meat is clean (so yeah, getting the results after the horses left the plant, they might as well not test at all...that is stupid)

    You need some smelling salt now?
    96% of the horse meat is clean and not bad for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Sweetcheeks.....
    What happened there is FRAUD. it is illegal. It has been for centuries illegal to sell horse as beef. Pretty universal, too.

    Except for the 8 or so horses they found that may have entered the food chain (out of 200 tested, that is an easy 4 %, so my argument holds that the majority of horses 'in the food chain' are not medicated) all articles stated that the meat itself was not meant to be a health risk.

    that means, yeah, it sucks, but nobody is worse for the wear. It was - apparently - not the first time horse was dished.

    You want me to get all huffy about it?
    I am sorry, I do not have it in me.
    Should I feel sorry for a bunch of loudmouthed freeloaders that they ate Bambi instead of Norman? Are you crazy? They ate for free on my dime....if you have dietary requirements you ask before you dig in, not after you ate your fill and then some.

    However, generally speaking, the 'I would never' crowd got horse with a side of crow....

    I really don't care, as long as the meat is clean (so yeah, getting the results after the horses left the plant, they might as well not test at all...that is stupid)

    You need some smelling salt now?
    96% of the horse meat is clean and not bad for you.
    I'm not your "sweetcheeks", and the name calling doesn't make your position look any better.
    And throwing out a "96% of the horses eaten are clean" is inaccurate and something that you came up with out of thin air, considering that 100% of racehorses, and performance horses in this country have been given banned substances. And they make up more than 4% of the horses slaughtered in Canada and Mexico. So the fact is, they haven't tested the horse's prior to slaughter to determine if they have received banned substances. Also, since the horsemeat wasn't supposed to be in the foods, and the facilities where it came from have not necessarily been approved for slaughtering horses for human consumption in EU countries, and there was no inspection process for the horses used for those food items, no one can say for absolute certainty that the horsemeat used, was safe.
    But carry on being amused at the fraud that was committed, because they were able to trick people into eating something they wouldn't knowingly eat.


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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    I'm not your "sweetcheeks", and the name calling doesn't make your position look any better.
    And throwing out a "96% of the horses eaten are clean" is inaccurate and something that you came up with out of thin air, considering that 100% of racehorses, and performance horses in this country have been given banned substances. And they make up more than 4% of the horses slaughtered in Canada and Mexico. So the fact is, they haven't tested the horse's prior to slaughter to determine if they have received banned substances. Also, since the horsemeat wasn't supposed to be in the foods, and the facilities where it came from have not necessarily been approved for slaughtering horses for human consumption in EU countries, and there was no inspection process for the horses used for those food items, no one can say for absolute certainty that the horsemeat used, was safe.
    But carry on being amused at the fraud that was committed, because they were able to trick people into eating something they wouldn't knowingly eat.
    Where did you get that "100% of race and performance horses have been given banned substances"?

    THAT really doesn't make much sense, is animal rights extremist talk, like the chestnuts are tumors and a horse resting a hind leg is of course lame.
    Honestly, any one with any sense thinking that out would understand that is not so.

    I agree that any horse or other meat sold as any other meat is wrong.
    That is already illegal, we have laws against that, so what is the problem here?
    The problem is not that they used horse meat, but that they were doing so fraudulently, breaking laws.

    I will still say, any time our societies have the large amount of the natural, renewable resource some horses are for us one more time thru slaughter and WILLFULLY, on the misguided ideas of a fringe extreme group, DEMAND we waste all that, there is something wrong here and it is not only that some crook sold horse meat as other meat.


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  13. #133
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    Just thing about this.
    Every time I open this thread, there is this banner ad across the top, in big, colorful letters:

    ---"Meat = Animal Cruelty
    .www.Choose.Veg.com.
    Watch the video the meat industry doesn't want you to see."---


    There is so much wrong with that, because that is just not true at all.
    What do they expect with such ads all over?
    Subliminal attacks to what we tend to think.
    Keep repeating something long enough and many, that don't think what is said thru, will start parroting such stuff, without realizing where they are getting crazy ideas like that, ideas that on second thought should show anyone it is not so, at all.

    What would you think if every time someone logs onto some site, they see a banner ad across the top with:

    ---"Riding horses is horribly abusive!
    Spurs! Whips! Beating a horse to go fast!
    ALL horses are slaves!
    Help us ban riding horses!
    www. horsefriendsxyz.coom
    Give to help save the horses!"---


    That is the kind of assault all of us, in one place or another, are under from animal rights extremist groups and their money, used in lobbying and filling the internet and media with anti animal use propaganda.

    Until we realize all of us that have animals are under assault, we will keep falling for their divide and conquer, as we can see right here.


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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    I'm not your "sweetcheeks", and the name calling doesn't make your position look any better.
    And throwing out a "96% of the horses eaten are clean" is inaccurate and something that you came up with out of thin air, considering that 100% of racehorses, and performance horses in this country have been given banned substances. And they make up more than 4% of the horses slaughtered in Canada and Mexico. So the fact is, they haven't tested the horse's prior to slaughter to determine if they have received banned substances. Also, since the horsemeat wasn't supposed to be in the foods, and the facilities where it came from have not necessarily been approved for slaughtering horses for human consumption in EU countries, and there was no inspection process for the horses used for those food items, no one can say for absolute certainty that the horsemeat used, was safe.
    But carry on being amused at the fraud that was committed, because they were able to trick people into eating something they wouldn't knowingly eat.
    Sweetypie.....

    You have read the news paper article, they tested around 200 carcasses, 8 came up hot. That is the easiest calculation ever: 96% vs 4%
    my argument stands: Most horses in 'the slaughter pipeline' are clean.

    You are trying to muddy the waters with 'facts' that aren't and issues that do not relate.
    it is more like playing chess with a pigeon than having a discussion.

    There is a) the underhanded substitution of meat in a product, thus falsely labeling it. BTW, they seemed to have followed that up with DNA tests in the fish market. The results are similar dismal in terms of substitution.
    It is fraud. Illegal.

    Then you bring in the guy who jerked off into the food....(aside from the fact the lady knew what her yogurt tasted off) I doubt the gentleman was USDA/FDA approved to contribute into the food chain. Thus leaving a grand opening for spreading cooties. Which is BTW more easily done from human to human than horse to human.
    Alas, it is illegal on so many other levels and frankly not related.
    Now, had he contributed his donation in the restaurant in New Zealand (I think it was there) that offered shots of flavored equine ejaculate.....we would be back to point number one: Illegal substitution (and the cootie thing, still)

    The Jehovas Witnesses do not play in this one bit. Not sure how they popped into your mind. I am sure you had a reason, but it certainly is one elusive one.

    So you carry on about slaughter.
    oops.
    that was not the issue at all.
    it's what happens after the animal is dead...when it magically is transformed from horse to beef. Or Kangaroo to beef.
    Your 'argument' is a house of cards, build on the foundation of the assumption that all horses are always over medicated.

    Which we all know to be false.
    Why do we know that?

    Plain and simple: When the overmedicating minority gets worried about their neighbor's horse not having 10 blankets and only sees the vet twice a year and no magical Smart Pack delivery....

    And of course those tragic cases when the county is called in to clean up a mess of starving and dead horses. But those aren't exactly entering the food chain, safe for buzzards and worms.

    So, in short:
    My numbers are from the news, although I am giving allowance for inaccurate reporting (can't have it both ways, you know, blast the news when they report something you don't like, embrace them when they just happen to get it 'right in your POV), yours are assumed.

    The yogurt guy and your fictional JWs are not relevant.

    But since you have trouble comprehending what I said, once more:

    fraud is fraud. Those people need to pay for it. Go to jail and pay hefty fines.

    the amusing part:
    Ok, not pay attention!
    Ready?

    There is no telling how long it has been going on. There are a lot of people out there who would loudly proclaim they have never eaten horse, would never do so who can no longer support such claims.
    And what is even more hilarious, they could not tell the difference, like most people can't, and probably even liked it. best Lasagna ever....

    Which of course destroys all your arguments with a small puff of hot air.
    Horse is no different on the plate than beef.


    Now, the next math problem:
    How much Bute will be in a certain muscle group of an average size horse when the horse is given 1, 2, 3 grams of medication.....
    How much Bute will a person consume by ingesting 8, 12 ounces of contaminated meat....

    But seriously....keep harping on bute, how bad it is, you will see it banned fr good, after all, you are giving your animal a known carcinogenic....how sick is that!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  15. #135
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    Why is horsemeat showing up in all sorts of cheap crap when we have been preached over and over that it was a delicacy and sold for big bucks overseas? I am sure it isn't the choice cuts, but still I don't get it. I don't usually find lobster in my hot pockets...


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  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Why is horsemeat showing up in all sorts of cheap crap when we have been preached over and over that it was a delicacy and sold for big bucks overseas? I am sure it isn't the choice cuts, but still I don't get it. I don't usually find lobster in my hot pockets...
    Guess that there are times, when there is a large oversupply of horses coming from eastern Europe, they become the cheap meat to go to for filler, for those that try to cheat, as those business were doing?

    Purina Mills is one of those companies that years ago, don't know today, you never knew what was in the bags you bought.
    Their formulas were franchised to local mills, that then used whatever products were cheaper in their area.

    That is perfectly legal, as long as that is stated in the label, maybe as "meat products" or "grain products".

    It is illegal if the label is "beef" and there is other in there, or "corn" as that is not the only grain used, even if what is sold is perfectly fine for the intended purpose.



  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Why is horsemeat showing up in all sorts of cheap crap when we have been preached over and over that it was a delicacy and sold for big bucks overseas? I am sure it isn't the choice cuts, but still I don't get it. I don't usually find lobster in my hot pockets...

    because it's propaganda...
    just because in one small place of the earth, where land is sparse the meat is a delicacy and rare does not mean the rest of the world, with ample grazing space thinks the same way.
    the couple of choice cuts may have always fetched a higher price...but it's like comparing cheek meat to tenderloin on the cow...or all the other good stuff that gets ground up.

    Of course, there is the aspect that Bluey mentioned. Economical issues sending the horses off to the packer in droves....they become rather cheap.
    The article about Romania quoted prices of something like 1/3 for horse compared to what beef brings. that id 66% profit when you slip that in!
    Or a cut of losses...

    and yeah, the lobster thing....
    tastes change...in colonial times prisoners and servants were fed lobster....until they complained and demanded better food.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  18. #138
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    I was thinking, in a life long time working with horses, in many places and barns and disciplines, I have never or seen anyone use any "illegal" substances, much less that being a 100% practice.
    To think that is so is totally absurd.

    That makes about as much sense as other animal rights extremist claims, that all that have animals abuse them, that all that use horses are ogres just by doing so

    Just because someone, somewhere used an illegal substance, just because someone, somewhere abused a horse, that doesn't mean all that have animals are automatically abusers, or that 100% of any meat has illegal substances in it.



  19. #139
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    Bluey: I think she meant "illegal" in the sense of "cannot be given to animals intended for slaughter", not banned for competition or racing. Are there actually any LAWS about it, as opposed to manufacturer recommendations? (And with the "bute causes cancer" thing, what was the ratio of chemical to body weight for the lab rats used to test it? With saccharine they found it "caused cancer" when they were giving it to rats in a ratio that would require humans to be consuming pounds and pounds of it over a very short time. And has there been laboratory testing to show that it really does "remain in the meat" years after the fact so one dose is exclusionary forever? That does not make a lot of sense but I only have undergrad biology to go on.)



  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Bluey: I think she meant "illegal" in the sense of "cannot be given to animals intended for slaughter", not banned for competition or racing. Are there actually any LAWS about it, as opposed to manufacturer recommendations? (And with the "bute causes cancer" thing, what was the ratio of chemical to body weight for the lab rats used to test it? With saccharine they found it "caused cancer" when they were giving it to rats in a ratio that would require humans to be consuming pounds and pounds of it over a very short time. And has there been laboratory testing to show that it really does "remain in the meat" years after the fact so one dose is exclusionary forever? That does not make a lot of sense but I only have undergrad biology to go on.)
    With beef, there are illegal substances you can't give at all.
    There are others that you can use off label with a vet's prescription.
    There are yet others you can use but have to follow withdrawal times before you sell the animals.

    I don't know what the poster that stated that about 100% meant, my answer was toward's what that statement, in that context, seemed to reflect, the same I have seen in other animal rights extremist propaganda and as such, nonsense.

    I read the ONE study in England about bute, that animal rights extremist groups took off with it and ran to make any animal given bute not be fit for human consumption.
    I also read the refutals of other scientist about how that was an extrapolation that really was not scientifically proven, it was a political move when that was used as it was.

    I think even The Horse in the USA had some about that controversy.
    Still, we can test for bute residues, so that is moot question, easy to eliminate any meat that show residues of it.



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