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  1. #21
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    Jun. 22, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by sid View Post
    Describes Boleem perfectly.
    This is who I thought of right when I read the list! I could "see" his big kind eyes and his nice feet
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  2. #22
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    Aug. 11, 2003
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    Sometimes people on this site make me just crazy. As someone who owns a lovely premium Oldenburg mare, I can truly identify with the original list of traits required by the OP. It makes me wonder about those who got all judgemental about asking for those things, because it made me wonder, "So those people AREN'T looking for those traits when they are breeding their nice mares?"

    Seriously, naysayers, asking for correct conformation and the other traits the OP wanted should be the STARTING point for all breeders, not something that should bring judgemental attitudes from other breeders. Yet sadly, there are sport horse stallions in this country (and everywhere else) with poor loin connections, hind legs that *don't* carry, mediocre necksets, etc. So asking for these things isn't unreasonable.

    Now to respond to the OP.... Olivier, while very big-boned, is extremely proportionate and meets to the "Nth" degree your requirements for big mind, big feet, and big eye. For temperament and soundness I would recommend him to anyone. And his FEI exploits speak for themselves. He has produced many, many ammie-friendly babies. I've worked with some of his foals, and the minute they hit the ground they were nice, easy babies. I've also worked with him, and he's a smartie with a good, friendly head on his shoulders. And he has some of the most awesome feet I have ever seen on a horse. Seriously.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Mar. 17, 2003
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    North Texas, US
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    While Sea Accounts is not a warmblood, he is GOV licensed and I believe he meets the other criteria listed. Additionally, I have two Grand Canyon/TB mares whom he crosses with beautifully with.

    He has competed through 4th - 2 with scores to 63% at 4-1
    He's won at Novice, Training and Preliminary eventing and will be competing at Intermediate later this spring.

    Most of his offspring are being competed (and winning in their chose discipline) with ammies and juniors.

    Most current pics/videos of him and his offspring are on his FB page:

    http://www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts
    www.debracysporthorses.com
    Home of Sea Accounts xx
    AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
    "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Jan. 22, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    To make Reece happy, I am going to edit my original post. And to clarify again, there isn't a heck of a lot on this mare that needs to be fixed - she "ideally" could be a bit leggier, a bit lighter in substance, and her head a bit "prettier" (she has a long, bony face). but overall, she is a nice girl. Owner would be happy with a foal just like her. Her list just happened to include some traits she wants in the stallion - many of which the mare already possesses. I thought the "big eyes, big feet, big heart" criteria was interesting - which is why I posted here.

    As for why the owner listed them -
    Big eyes - she likes a horse with a big, soft eye
    Big feet - she doesn't like sporthorses with smallish feet (soundness concerns)
    Big heart - she loves a horse that is kind, willing, and generous
    You don't have to make me happy DY. I simply responded to your plea for "thoughts" on what you posted. You posted ELEVEN things that were on the improvement wish list. I simply stated I wouldn't breed a mare that needed this much fixin.

    You have to like your mare when you breed. Asking the stallion to bring more than a couple things to the table is unrealistic. Peace out !



  5. #25
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    Jan. 22, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post
    Sometimes people on this site make me just crazy. As someone who owns a lovely premium Oldenburg mare, I can truly identify with the original list of traits required by the OP. It makes me wonder about those who got all judgemental about asking for those things, because it made me wonder, "So those people AREN'T looking for those traits when they are breeding their nice mares?"

    Seriously, naysayers, asking for correct conformation and the other traits the OP wanted should be the STARTING point for all breeders, not something that should bring judgemental attitudes from other breeders. Yet sadly, there are sport horse stallions in this country (and everywhere else) with poor loin connections, hind legs that *don't* carry, mediocre necksets, etc. So asking for these things isn't unreasonable.

    Now to respond to the OP.... Olivier, while very big-boned, is extremely proportionate and meets to the "Nth" degree your requirements for big mind, big feet, and big eye. For temperament and soundness I would recommend him to anyone. And his FEI exploits speak for themselves. He has produced many, many ammie-friendly babies. I've worked with some of his foals, and the minute they hit the ground they were nice, easy babies. I've also worked with him, and he's a smartie with a good, friendly head on his shoulders. And he has some of the most awesome feet I have ever seen on a horse. Seriously.
    "So those people AREN'T looking for those traits when they are breeding their nice mares?"

    No......We already have most of those traits in our "NICE" mares.

    We might be looking for a little longer leg or a little more scope in a mare. we might be looking for a better canter or loin connection in another. We may be looking for a more angled hind leg or cleaner poll connection in another.

    No way should a wish list for a mare EVER be 11 things long. It's unrealistic as breeding doesn't work this way.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
    DownYonder is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhawk View Post
    You don't have to make me happy DY. I simply responded to your plea for "thoughts" on what you posted. You posted ELEVEN things that were on the improvement wish list. I simply stated I wouldn't breed a mare that needed this much fixin.

    You have to like your mare when you breed. Asking the stallion to bring more than a couple things to the table is unrealistic. Peace out !
    Please read for comprehension. No where did I say it was an "improvement list".


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Mar. 1, 2005
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    Wellborn, Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    Ah, sorry, should clarify. By "big heart", the mare owner means "big-hearted" - as in generous, willing, kind, etc. Mare is lovely in temperament and willingness - she is easy to get along with and tries her heart out. The owner wants a stallion that also has those traits.
    Lotus T is known to produce offspring like that.



  8. #28
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    Please read for comprehension. No where did I say it was an "improvement list".
    FWIW it is very rare to have a "What stallion" thread without someone sooner or later posting "Don't breed that mare"
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Aug. 2, 2005
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    Oxford, USA
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    Dressage Royal fits all of your criteria.
    Anne
    -------
    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhawk View Post
    .

    I don't need to see the mare seeing as you listed ELEVEN things to improve on her. So.....yes , really.

    I don't breed mares that need this much fixin.
    Reece, maybe there is some misunderstanding here. I didn't read that the OP was making this list as improvements over the mare. She listed qualities to be found in the STALLION.

    Frankly, when I look for stallions, I want correct conformation, uphill gaits, carrying hind leg, good feet, a great attitude, etc. It's saying nothing about the mare at all.
    https://www.facebook.com/MariposaSportHorses

    Practice! Patience! Persistence!


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Jun. 24, 2012
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    Ontario
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    "Frankly, when I look for stallions, I want correct conformation, uphill gaits, carrying hind leg, good feet, a great attitude, etc. It's saying nothing about the mare at all."

    I have to agree with Rodawn. When I look for a stallion, I may look for him to improve on one or two traits on the mare however, I also have a list of traits I want to "double up" on. IMO, this falls into the category of breeding "like to like" and definitely increases the odds of getting a better quality foal.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Mar. 17, 2007
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    Northern California
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    Based on the three criteria (eyes, feet & heart), Escudo II. I know he's jumper bred, but he is producing some very very nice dressage horses for us ammy riders that have beautiful faces with big eyes, big feet and very game forward thinking ridability. LOVE my filly and so far she is very easy to ride, she's 3 1/2 and I'm riding her. She very much dressage type.

    All of the E II kids that I have seen are more modern than their dams, the ones I've seen under saddle and in the dressage court are very pretty with 3 very good gaits. Not extravagant in the movement, but very nice. All of them have excellent canters.

    Excepchanel (Escudo II x Caraechstrodinair)
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater
    Last edited by stripes; Jan. 15, 2013 at 06:08 PM.



  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nootka View Post
    This is who I thought of right when I read the list! I could "see" his big kind eyes and his nice feet
    Aww..yes, he is one that is hard to forget. While you never saw him under saddle as he was stallbound from an injury, that kindness and heart was more than evident.

    In fact when Scott and Suzanne Hassler were riding him when he was been frozen by Paul at Select Breeders at Hilltop (and I didn't know either of them) because he was USET long-listed and I had to have top knotch FEI riders on him while he was there for collection, I got a call I won't forget.

    Scott called me one Friday evening out of the blue within a week of him going to Hilltop/Select Breeders. He introduced himself and just called to tell me that they loved Boleem instantly. They couldn't believe what a people-pleaser he was. He remarked "what a big heart" and work ethic, yet an awesome athlete.

    Heck, I could have put a toddler in his stall to spend the night in there and he would have taken care of them. Just his nature. No one "made" him that way. That's just the way he was.

    I've never forgotten that heart combined with kindness and athleticsm. I was blessed to own him. I miss him every day. Glad you had a chance to meet him. His kiddies that live on have the same characteristics. And that is really wonderful for me though I had to stop marketing him for breeding for the last few years.

    Okay, I'll go blown my nose in a hankerchief.
    Last edited by sid; Jan. 15, 2013 at 10:45 PM. Reason: typos


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34

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    Okay, I'll bite.....I have an old style mare (HOL X TB X HAN), great temperament, easy breeder, sound through various competition venues and amateurs. Good type, but she could use a better head, less upright feet and more leg (modernization). Before me, this mare was bred to Feiner Stern and Ideal (X2). After me, she has been bred to Donnerluck, Devon Heir, Freestyle, and Locksley I.

    The best at putting on the head, eye, nice round hooves with heels and modernization (legs and not thick): Devon Heir. All of her foals have been super in temperament with jumping ability (i.e. they are athletic), some better movers than others, some better jumpers than others.....but, pretty and good temperament with movement. Devon Heir. In all fairness, the Locksley colt is a weanling so he may be the best, he is certainly the best mover, but a bit less sweetness at this point (he is still a little stallion).

    The mare's breeding is Constitution (HOL) X Sea Of Grass XX (Herbager) X Marchenoff (HAN). In case you are wondering why so many stallions were tested with her, she was purchased as a test mare (and training for me) for two yearlings I purchased before her and I wanted to see what bloodlines worked and what didn't.

    Oh, she is a nice red bay, star, and two short hind socks. The Devon Heir offspring looks just like him!



  15. #35
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    May. 14, 2004
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    North Carolina
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    Don Principe!! I have ridden him on trails 3 months post hip replacement and three days later he competed in Florida at GP with his trainer.

    Anyone who has ever met him will tell you the same thing, in this I am being very honest and not barn blind, he is the kindest, gentlest soul you will ever have the pleasure to know. Please do not take my word for it, look up the video that was done in 2009 with Courtney at the NationalHorse show. Or call Natalie, or anyone who has been around him.

    He has a very good hind leg, talent for collection and outstanding walk. Excellent semen, b otrh fresh and frozen with LFG. Top quality service from Hilltop Farm, approved AHS, Hanoverian Verband,GOV and ISR/Old NA.

    He has the TB blood you need for the G line, wonderful feet, large eye. He is producing pretty foals that win in hand and outstanding performance horses that both pro and amatuer want. I can give references privately if needed from both pro and ammy.
    Maryanna Haymon- Marydell Farm - Home to Don Principe & Doctor Wendell MF
    www.marydellfarm.com
    2012 USDF Champion Breeder! 2007, 2011 USEF Champ Breeder
    2009,2010,2011 USDF Res Breeder of the Year!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Nov. 23, 2001
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    BTW, I'm not "promoting" Boleem here. But when Nootka who worked here for a time got the same "jive" as to the OP's wants and posted...I just got a bit nostalgic about that fine man.

    Carry on.
    Last edited by sid; Jan. 15, 2013 at 10:46 PM. Reason: typos...the bain to my existence


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    May. 4, 2012
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    Speaking to big kind eyes and sweet, willing dispositions I would suggest Royal Prince at Hilltop. I've handled at least half a dozen of his offspring in the 2-6 year old range and they were always the sweetest horses in the barn. I've not ridden any of them, but watching them go under saddle I never saw them act up or have crazy antics some of the other youngsters would have. One of them was sort of "average" in type (not heavy or fine, not long legged or short, just in the middle), but the other 5 or so were on the more refined, long legged side. Hilltop could tell you more about what you could expect from that cross. He's also been a pretty popular stallion so there's a lot of offspring out there to predict what he'll pass along.

    Even if Royal Prince isn't what you're looking for, Hilltop would be a good place to speak with because so many of their stallions are approved AHS and GOV.
    Last edited by Twisted River; Jan. 16, 2013 at 12:29 AM. Reason: typo


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Aug. 4, 2006
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    Branson, Missouri
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    Sid....Boleem was stunning. I can imagine you miss him terribly. What a breathtaking horse!
    "I'm an idealist. I don't know where I'm going, but I'm on my way."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Dec. 25, 2002
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    Georgia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted River View Post
    Speaking to big kind eyes and sweet, willing dispositions I would suggest Royal Prince at Hilltop. I've handled at least half a dozen of his offspring in the 2-6 year old range and they were always the sweetest horses in the barn. I've not ridden any of them, but watching them go under saddle I never saw them act up or have crazy antics some of the other youngsters would have. One of them was sort of "average" in type (not heavy or fine, not long legged or short, just in the middle), but the other 5 or so were on the more refined, long legged side. Hilltop could tell you more about what you could expect from that cross. He's also been a pretty popular stallion so there's a lot of offspring out there to predict what he'll pass along.

    Even if Royal Prince isn't what you're looking for, Hilltop would be a good place to speak with because so many of there stallions are approved AHS and GOV.
    My Royal Prince filly absolutely embodied all of the desired qualities!



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by risingstarfarm View Post
    My Royal Prince filly absolutely embodied all of the desired qualities!
    I know of several Royal Prince offspring out of G line mares or G line granddaughters (but who are linebred to Grande) and that is a nice cross. Plus you add in the R line temperament and the pretty face. If you look at Rolling Stone Farm's website, a good example is EM Regalia (Royal Prince - Graphitti), who is out of the full sister to Gold Luck. On my website, my Royal Relfection is Royal Prince - Pablo - Gold Luck, so another good example of R and G together (since he is line bred to Grande through his Pablo - Gold Luck dam)

    I think you friend might also want to look at Sir Gregory. I have been strongly considering breeding him to one of my G line mares, but am waiting for his AHS approvals. He is very pretty and refined and seems super rideable. He is G line on the bottom, so it would be line breeding, but he is refined enough and passes on his type that I think it would be a good cross. He seems to have exceptional dressage ability and willingness to carry weight on his hindquarter.

    Finally I do have a lovely Pablo daughter out of a Gold Luck - Weltmeyer daughter. She is really beautiful (huge eyes) and very rideable, and has a great hind leg. The pros who had her in training for 2 years loved her ability and willingness.

    I also did have a pretty Escudo II filly out of a Gold Luck - Pablo daughter who was more refined than her dam, very pretty, and very athletic. Gaits were big and lofty, but the Gold Luck dam's gaits were really nice to begin with, E II improved the canter on that filly, neck, and face.



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