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  1. #101
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Judge with a chip on his shoulder or OP with entire mountain range sitting on his nads?


    43 members found this post helpful.

  2. #102
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    Feb. 28, 2008
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    missouri
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    wow, is this possibly the hubby of mama mandarino?

    am i missing a gender indication? this BWW sounds like a man to me. also had quite a bit to say on the humble thread at which point sure didn't sound so blissfully ignorant.

    what a maroon.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  3. #103
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    Feb. 28, 2008
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    missouri
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    double post
    Last edited by fair judy; Jan. 14, 2013 at 09:13 PM. Reason: couble post



  4. #104
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    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Nokesville, VA
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    I suspect that your daughter was FAR MORE upset by seeing her parents "very angry" than she was by seeing one grownup she doesn't know shouting at another grownup she doesn't know.


    I have no idea why the steward was shouting at the trainer. If you thnk it is inappropriate, there are several things you can do.

    - Ignore it, but chose not to show at shows where he is the steward
    - Let the show office know what you observed, and tell them that you do not plan to show where he is officiating
    - Submit an official's evaluation form
    http://www.usef.org/documents/compet...uationFill.pdf
    Note that you must provide your name, but it will be kept confidential
    - If you think that the steward has sctually broken a rule, you can file a protest.

    But it is NEVER appropriate to reprimand an official in person

    Notice that it is a violation to "act in an unsportsmanlike or intemperate" manner", and it is equaly a violation to "cast aspersions on the character or integrity of the licensed officials" (which includes stewards).

    GR702 Violations.
    1. A violation is any act prejudicial to the best interests of the Federation, including
    but not limited to the following:
    ...
    d. Acting or inciting or permitting any other to act in a manner contrary to the
    rules of the Federation, or in a manner deemed improper, unethical, dishonest,
    unsportsmanlike or intemperate, or prejudicial to the best interests of the sport
    and the Federation.
    e. Any act committed or remark made in connection with the competition considered
    offensive and/or made with the intent to influence or cast aspersions on
    the character or integrity of the licensed officials, approaching a judge before or
    after a decision without first obtaining permission from the show committee or
    steward/technical delegate, inspecting a judge’s card without the judge’s permission,
    or public verbal abuse of competition officials.
    If you think the steward violated that rule, then follow the actions described above. Don't commit a violation yourself .

    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, please

    READ THE RULE BOOK FIRST

    BEFORE showing.




    Quote Originally Posted by BWW View Post
    . Why would a seasoned professional (assuming he is, I don't know), seeing that a 4 year old is about to enter the ring, go over and make a scene in front of 20 people? Does he not realize that the child may get uneasy?

    Some may say "that's life in showing", OK, but it made a lot of people very angry this weekend, not the least of whom her parents (myself and my wife).
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #105
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    May. 9, 2001
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    2,508

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    Funny, I was just thinking BWW makes EM seem ... knowledgeable.

    I bet someone is hosting another pesky house guest.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #106
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    Dec. 6, 2012
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    36

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    Quote Originally Posted by fair judy View Post
    wow, is this possibly the hubby of mama mandarino?

    am i missing a gender indication? this BWW sounds like a man to me. also had quite a bit to say on the humble thread at which point sure didn't sound so blissfully ignorant



    what a maroon.
    Oh yes...anyone who has a different opinion than you is not to be trusted...come on, Humble? You are better than that...



  7. #107
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    Feb. 17, 2007
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    My very own sliver of heaven.
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    Well bless your heart, OP! Aren't you just a peach?!

    Nine out of ten times, you'll get it wrong...but it's that tenth time that you get it right that makes all the difference.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  8. #108
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    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Nokesville, VA
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    This text

    her parents (myself and my wife).
    leads me to believe that BWW is the rider's FATHER
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  9. #109
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    1,094

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    Hopefully the OP will understand that speaking harshly to a USEF official or show management can get you set down by USEF.



  10. #110
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    Feb. 28, 2008
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    missouri
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    somewhere in this MESS i missed that with all the deletes and edits.

    just like a man to head straight for the supposedly superior "high ground".....



  11. #111
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    Jan. 17, 2008
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    Dutchess County, New York
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    OP, I've gone back and read your old posts. If you can take a deep breath and step back from this thread, I'd urge you to stay on COTH. You are brand new to the sport, with only your four year old riding. You know almost nothing. You (presumably) have deep pockets. You are exactly who the unscrupulous trainers are looking for.

    This is the best resource out there for information about horses and riding. Olympic riders post here. Veterinarians post here. You can learn *so much* just by reading this forum.

    Whatever you do, educate yourself. You can do that by reading COTH, or by having your daughter join Pony Club (highly recommended, though 4 is a little young). The horse business is one of the sleaziest out there, and there are many people keen to take your money and who do not care at all what's best for your daughter, you, or any pony you might buy.

    What do I have to gain by offering this advice? Not a thing. I am trying to help you; it sounds to me like you are possibly heading for a bad experience and I hope that you'll educate yourself so that you can avoid it (and the many pitfalls with horses and certain horse professionals).

    Good luck.


    23 members found this post helpful.

  12. #112
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    Feb. 28, 2008
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    missouri
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWW View Post
    Oh yes...anyone who has a different opinion than you is not to be trusted...come on, Humble? You are better than that...



  13. #113
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    Sep. 12, 2006
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    Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMF11 View Post
    OP, I've gone back and read your old posts. If you can take a deep breath and step back from this thread, I'd urge you to stay on COTH. You are brand new to the sport, with only your four year old riding. You know almost nothing. You (presumably) have deep pockets. You are exactly who the unscrupulous trainers are looking for.

    This is the best resource out there for information about horses and riding. Olympic riders post here. Veterinarians post here. You can learn *so much* just by reading this forum.

    Whatever you do, educate yourself. You can do that by reading COTH, or by having your daughter join Pony Club (highly recommended, though 4 is a little young). The horse business is one of the sleaziest out there, and there are many people keen to take your money and who do not care at all what's best for your daughter, you, or any pony you might buy.

    What do I have to gain by offering this advice? Not a thing. I am trying to help you; it sounds to me like you are possibly heading for a bad experience and I hope that you'll educate yourself so that you can avoid it (and the many pitfalls with horses and certain horse professionals).

    Good luck.


    OP THIS.... one hundred times over. THIS is what you need to read ^^


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #114
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    Dec. 6, 2012
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    36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayaty02 View Post
    OP THIS.... one hundred times over. THIS is what you need to read ^^
    That is awesome feedback, no doubt about it. Sorry to all if I offended, it was not my intention. I have no idea how or why this thing escalated like it did. I know I got a little hot under the collar to some of you when I felt like it was getting too personal. Yes, we are new to the sport, and have a lot to learn, at the same time and I am a passionate father and advocate for my daughter. That's just me...


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #115
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    Aug. 5, 2007
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    OP,
    Well done to get your daughter over her upset and into the ring, this was a good life lesson for her.

    While I can understand the indignation felt that led to you directly speaking to the offending party, this was against show rules. Acting against show rules could have resulted in fines assessed to you in addition to receiving a dressing down for the 'end run' around legitimate authorized avenues of complaint.

    You are now receiving the dressing down you could have rightly gotten as a result. While it feels harsh, especially as you were defending your daughter, we are only pointing out that you were acting in the wrong; in the hope you will choose the correct avenue by the rules next time.

    These rules are written down for your convenience, simply go to the USEF site and download the rulebook.

    Speaking directly to a ranking official such as a judge is not done.
    Complaining directly to the judge is absolutely not done.

    Doing so is considered unsportsmanlike in the extreme in equestrian sport.

    Each sport has it's rules. Competitors, management, coaches and spectators abide by them. And use existing avenues to object to rulebreakers.


    As to the entry in both leadline and walk-trot: once a child stands and walks, crawling is in the past and not something to show off with or compete at, this is a similar situation, not a beauty contest but an introduction to the show ring on an equine under supervision.
    Certainly she could show in both classes, but it is not recognizing the accomplishment of riding on her own -a huge step.

    And that is how to present the sportsmanship of leaving the leadine class to children not ready to do walk-trot to your daughter.


    Learning more about your daughter's sport shows you respect her accomplishments. As the years go by you will see her interaction with horses and people at shows maturing her emotionally beyond some other children.
    She will learn to deal with unfairness, rudeness, fools, etc. in group social settings.

    I am glad you are involved with your daughter in her showing experience.
    Please consider keeping an open mind and learning more about her sport.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  16. #116
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    Jan. 28, 2003
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    Hollywood, but not the one where they have the Oscars!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy4aOTTB View Post
    I don't mean to hi-jack the thread but I am also curious about talking to the judge. I spoke to the judge at one of my first shows this summer. I am new to showing and my trainer told me that I should ask about seeing the judges card.

    I was not asking to dispute anything but to get an idea of how they judge and what they look for. I ask the office manager who called the judge over at the very end after the show was over. She graciously reviewed two of my jumping rounds. The judge didn't seem upset but I did explain that I was wanting to see for the knowledge not that I was objecting.

    I was planning on possibly doing this again as it did help me understand a little better what the judge is looking for. Not just did they get the correct number of strides down the lines and get the flying changes. So am I going to get marked down by theses judges next time. Is it really a bother to them?
    Almost always, I love it when people ask me why I placed something the way I did. There are always exceptions.....

    And yes, you should have gone to management or the steward instead of the judge.
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  17. #117
    Join Date
    Dec. 6, 2012
    Posts
    36

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    I am usually one of the few men at the shows. Not sure why that is. Even if it is mostly girls that ride, I'd rather be there with her than play golf. Seems to be a mother-daughter thing, which is OK. But she's all we have, so there I am...

    We can give her a good experience, very lucky to be able to do so, but wow, it sure seems like it may be a cut-throat business, fraught with peril for the unsuspecting. We aren't stupid people, but kind of makes me want to tell her to stick with Tennis...but she loves the ponies....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #118
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    Sep. 12, 2006
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    Virginia
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    Unfortunately OP, the pony business is SERIOUS business and if you have lots of money and very little knowledge, you are a target for the unscupulous trainers in the business. It's a sad fact but a fact nonetheless.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #119
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Co
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    Showing horses is "fraught with peril" unfortunately. However your daughter can have a great time and learn some good life lessons. Many of those lessons will be "How Not To Behave like an Idiot", because you will be exposed to people acting like idiots.

    Choose the horse people you associate with carefully and try very hard not to be "that guy".

    There are some wise people here who can help you. It is supposed to be a fun time for your daughter. Kids, enjoying their ponies, remember?
    Many kids are soured by the horse show experience, because the fun is lost when the ADULTS lose perspective.

    Try not to be too competitive, she is still so young. Rise above whatever nastiness you encounter and your daughter will follow your lead. Good Luck and have fun!


    7 members found this post helpful.

  20. #120
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    It is supposed to be a fun time for your daughter. Kids, enjoying their ponies, remember?
    Many kids are soured by the horse show experience, because the fun is lost when the ADULTS lose perspective.
    You've said a mouthful there!


    2 members found this post helpful.

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