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  1. #21
    TullyMars is online now Working Hunter Premium Member
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    Just spent my lunch time watching videos of past Pentathalon events...Wow...Have to admit I did google the worst of...tomorrow I will google the best of...and REALLY hope for the best! I really wish that this system would get revamped. Will be interesting to see who does send their horse to this from my region. Can anyone suggest a really good Pentathalete to watch?



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by likeaninja View Post
    My parents made the mistake of sending off my semi-retired CH/AD jumper while I was in Florida last year with another horse. I didn't get word of it until the competition was over. He can be seen in this video starting at 37 minutes:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTGwvzDhPqc
    Your horse is a saint.


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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwave View Post
    Your horse is a saint.
    OMG, I love your horse likeaninja!!!!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  4. #24
    TullyMars is online now Working Hunter Premium Member
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    Goodness your horse IS a saint!



  5. #25
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    I like the idea of making the riding phase a dressage test. At least that's a little more kind to the horse.

    It would be better to just substitute an entirely different sport- one that did not involve living, breathing animals.

    There was a lot of discussion about this sport last summer, and the published remarks from the athletes and coaches about their training schedules would make any horseman shake their head. And watching most of the videos would make any horseman cringe.



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TullyMars View Post
    Goodness your horse IS a saint!
    I concur.

    He deserved LOTS of carrots! As did all those horses.



  7. #27
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    What is so wrong with substituting bike riding?
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    What is so wrong with substituting bike riding?
    I guess they'd have two arguments:

    1) They're trying to balance multiple types of athleticism, and running and swimming already test aerobic endurance. Cycling would be duplicative

    2) cycling isn't a traditional military skill.

    I'd say, swap to dressage, or cut the equestrian aspect altogether. In one horrible sense, I LIKE having the horse aspect of pentathlon - it illustrates nicely that our sport is more than just sitting on the horse. But I'm not willing to repeatedly prove that at the horse's expense.



  9. #29
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    Can you guys imagine the rolkur these 'athletes' would use?

    Cut out equestrian until they are capable of it. In reality, a 3'6 jumper course is not all that impressive of a skill. When I imagine multisport athletes, I imagine people near the top in multiple sports. Why do they allow this?



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwave View Post
    I guess they'd have two arguments:

    1) They're trying to balance multiple types of athleticism, and running and swimming already test aerobic endurance. Cycling would be duplicative

    2) cycling isn't a traditional military skill.

    I'd say, swap to dressage, or cut the equestrian aspect altogether. In one horrible sense, I LIKE having the horse aspect of pentathlon - it illustrates nicely that our sport is more than just sitting on the horse. But I'm not willing to repeatedly prove that at the horse's expense.
    cycling is aerobic, yes, but it is a different skill set than running and swimming. Ask anyone who does tetrathalons, some people are great at one and not at others. It doesn't have to be a length bike either, it could be a twisty course that's more a test of skill than endurance.

    showjumping isn't so much of a military skills these days either maybe substitute drone fighting?
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSacky View Post
    Can you guys imagine the rolkur these 'athletes' would use?

    Cut out equestrian until they are capable of it. In reality, a 3'6 jumper course is not all that impressive of a skill. When I imagine multisport athletes, I imagine people near the top in multiple sports. Why do they allow this?
    If a 3'6" jumper course on a strange horse were not all that impressive of a skill, probably more of these otherwise elite athletes would be able to do it.


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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    If a 3'6" jumper course on a strange horse were not all that impressive of a skill, probably more of these otherwise elite athletes would be able to do it.
    I agree ... While I have definitely seen some pretty scary rounds, and agree that somehow revamping the equestrian phase to make it more fair to the horses is a much-needed change, I get annoyed by those who make it sound like jumping a course on a totally unfamiliar (and possibly questionably schooled) horse is something trivial that any decent rider could do if they practiced for a couple years. The pentathletes are not evil, horse hating muscle heads intentionally manhandling the horses around the course. They are just trying to do something that, regardless of what many of those on COTH say, is very difficult ... And be equally good or better at 4 other sports at the same time.

    And I think I remember reading that at the top competitions, such as the Olympics, the fences are 4'3", not 3'6".

    We're not talking about getting on your trainer's Grand Prix horse, or an A-circuit packer. These horses may have quirks, and lots of them. Riding a horse you know nothing about over a 3'6" or 4'3" course is HARD.

    I'm not sure what the best answer would be ... A dressage test would be good, but the results would probably depend too much on the horses' training, which as we've already seen is likely to be pretty varied. Maybe a more technical course, with lower fences?


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  13. #33
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    If you want to know the truth, I want this OUT of the olympics and polo IN... so I am hardly an unbiased source. But if this has to stay in, why not take horses out of it entirely. It's MODERN pentathalon. Most modern soldiers never SEE a horse let alone ride let alone jump one. The entire concept of using horses in this event is outdated. If riding stays in, in whatever form, I say make the team bring their OWN horses and at least take the catch riding aspect out of it.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    But if this has to stay in, why not take horses out of it entirely. It's MODERN pentathalon. Most modern soldiers never SEE a horse let alone ride let alone jump one. The entire concept of using horses in this event is outdated.
    Very true.

    Brainstorm: Take out the horses and substitute something with handling dogs, since that's an activity that actually DOES happen a bit in modern warfare. Probably more often than fencing, anyway.



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    cycling is aerobic, yes, but it is a different skill set than running and swimming. Ask anyone who does tetrathalons, some people are great at one and not at others.
    Or anyone who does triathlons... Yes, it's a different variety of endurance aerobic sport, but it's still in that category. And if you subbed in cycling, you'd just have a triathlon plus fencing and shooting.

    Perhaps, building on another poster's comment, replace the horse riding with driving a military vehicle through an obstacle course?



  16. #36
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    The definition of modern is probably relative to to something fairly ancient, like the ancient Greek olympics as opposed to those of the modern era.

    IIRC, the premise is that a soldier has to deliver a message and, in so doing, rides a horse, swims across some body of water, runs, and fends off the bad guys with guns and swords. It would be more realistic to substitute something along the lines of competitive trail riding or those trail trails type things, but that would require more land than the sport currently uses. Maybe a trail/obstacle course in a ring within a time allowed?
    The Evil Chem Prof



  17. #37
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    Ok, sub in BMX biking. Or Indy car driving. Or whatever. Just sub in something that doesn't involve poor riding on borrowed horses!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky Situation View Post
    I agree ... While I have definitely seen some pretty scary rounds, and agree that somehow revamping the equestrian phase to make it more fair to the horses is a much-needed change, I get annoyed by those who make it sound like jumping a course on a totally unfamiliar (and possibly questionably schooled) horse is something trivial that any decent rider could do if they practiced for a couple years. The pentathletes are not evil, horse hating muscle heads intentionally manhandling the horses around the course. They are just trying to do something that, regardless of what many of those on COTH say, is very difficult ... And be equally good or better at 4 other sports at the same time.

    And I think I remember reading that at the top competitions, such as the Olympics, the fences are 4'3", not 3'6".

    We're not talking about getting on your trainer's Grand Prix horse, or an A-circuit packer. These horses may have quirks, and lots of them. Riding a horse you know nothing about over a 3'6" or 4'3" course is HARD.

    I'm not sure what the best answer would be ... A dressage test would be good, but the results would probably depend too much on the horses' training, which as we've already seen is likely to be pretty varied. Maybe a more technical course, with lower fences?
    This is all very true, and especially the part about fence height. It is 1.20 at the Olympics. In Charlotte for the World Cup, we had to lower the fences to 3' because of many factors, but even there you still saw a lot of unfortunate incidents. Perhaps a much lower (i.e., always 3', or 2'9 or something) course, and a time where you get speed faults for going under, like in eventing?
    I've heard there's more to life than an FEI tent and hotel rooms, so I'm trying it.



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerJumper View Post
    This is all very true, and especially the part about fence height. It is 1.20 at the Olympics. In Charlotte for the World Cup, we had to lower the fences to 3' because of many factors
    I did not watch the whole Charlotte video, but I did not see anybody I would have wanted to see attempt a 1.20 course!



  20. #40
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    I'd be OK with it if these riders actually had proper training and could demonstrate proper navigation of a course, using their hands properly, etc. It seems that a lot of them have decent seats but there is no technicality to their training. Hands dont follow, horses having their teeth ripped out, and riders are careless of navigating to a jump properly. I see very inexperienced riders attempting to jump too big of a height on horses they shouldnt be riding. It's ugly; and it's dangerous. If they actually recieved proper training about jumping these courses; I'd be much happier about it but they seem rather careless regarding riding techniques. In the first video I watched; it looked as if the horses were ridden extremely hard before entering the arena;they were all drenched and lathered with sweat. If that was my horse; I would not be happy. Walk trot and canter both ways and 5 or so warm-up fences is all a rider should need...if that.



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