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  1. #1
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    Default Q's regarding Northern Dancer

    Why is he to be somewhat avoided in sport horse pedigrees?

    As well, is it Northern Dancer himself or Nearctic/Nearco?

    Just curious because my mare has no ND himself, but has Nearctic/Nearco through Briartic, Muskoka (great grand-dam), Nasrullah, etc.

    Thanks
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  2. #2
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    Who avoids Northern Dancer? I have many students with very successful descendants of his in their programs. Since he stood in Chesapeake City, Md. there are tons of his offspring around here as well as around the world. They are prized for their talent, jumping and on the flat, and durability. The only "negative" may be that they are often normal in size and not giants.
    Anne
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    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist


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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by not again View Post
    Who avoids Northern Dancer? I have many students with very successful descendants of his in their programs. Since he stood in Chesapeake City, Md. there are tons of his offspring around here as well as around the world. They are prized for their talent, jumping and on the flat, and durability. The only "negative" may be that they are often normal in size and not giants.
    Ah? Well I was told he wasn't one to be seen often in a pedigree because he was more of a short distance runner and therefore, not really suited for sport... Or perhaps I am mistaken? Could be too.
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
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  4. #4
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    It may be harder to find a pedigree that does not have his name in it, often several times. That may be the reason to avoid it if you are using a mare or stallion that is linebred to him already.
    Anne
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    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist



  5. #5
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    Ah! Could be.
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  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EquusMagnificus View Post
    Ah? Well I was told he wasn't one to be seen often in a pedigree because he was more of a short distance runner and therefore, not really suited for sport... Or perhaps I am mistaken? Could be too.
    He wasn't a shorter distance runner. He won the Kentucky Derby and the Queens Plate - both run over 1 1/4 miles. The Northern Dancer sire line has been responsible for about half of the winners of the Epsom Derby - 1 1/2 miles - since 1970. I think the person that gave you the information was mistaken.



  7. #7
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    I don't think it is ND himself, many people do not like to see Northern Dancer crossed with Mr. Prospector, particularly up close...People seem to like each one (more so ND) without that cross..ND was very very successful at the old classic distances. Mr. P was a sprinter, unbelievably fast, but apparently sired a proportion of foals with not such hot fronts and some were reported to be fragile. His foals however have jump and some really nice dispositions. He himself was said to have a really good dispostion for a TB stallion. ND was a smallish, shound horse, who threw foals in that image, average size and sound.



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo1998 View Post
    He wasn't a shorter distance runner. He won the Kentucky Derby and the Queens Plate - both run over 1 1/4 miles. The Northern Dancer sire line has been responsible for about half of the winners of the Epsom Derby - 1 1/2 miles - since 1970. I think the person that gave you the information was mistaken.
    Someone also needs to take a look at the winners roll for the Ascot Gold Cup G1, at 2 1/2 miles the world's premier race for STAYERS. 17 of the last 20 runnings have been won by direct male line descendants of ND.
    Also take a look at the top NH (jump racing) sire standings. Most of the top 20 sires of jumpers are from the ND sire line.



  9. #9
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    DD's horse is 16.3 with ND pedigree - see below AND Mr. Prospector. He's often mistaken for a WB - especially when he gets a bit chubby.

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/gentleman+johnny
    Last edited by MoonWitch; Oct. 10, 2011 at 10:47 AM. Reason: add info
    Our horses know our secrets; we braid our tears into their manes and whisper our hopes into their ears.



  10. #10
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    I am in the same neck of the woods as not again. Before the WB s took over the sport horse and hunter world it was almost difficult to find a TB without Northern Dancer influence in this area. I have personally ridden many and they were wonderful .


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  11. #11
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    The only reason I can think of to possibly avoid ND is he was small and sort of QH like in build. By this point though those factors have been so diluted by all the generations that I would think they would not be relevant anymore. And no, he was definitely not a short distance runner by anyone's standards not that it would matter to most sport horse people if that were the case.



  12. #12
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    My horse: http://www.pedigreequery.com/uncle+ruby
    He's on the small side for a TB (16h). Nice gaits and a huge jump. He has his opinions, but overall has the best temperment and ground manners in the WORLD.
    This is my other guy, adopted from CANTER last year:
    http://www.pedigreequery.com/gunner+valley
    He's got even BETTER gaits, but doesn't have the personality or roll-with-it temperment of Uncle Ruby.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonWitch View Post
    DD's horse is 16.3 with ND pedigree - see below AND Mr. Prospector. He's often mistaken for a WB - especially when he gets a bit chubby.

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/gentleman+johnny

    This horse seems familiar to me. Is he very dark with a lot of white? Probably have the wrong horse but that name is very familiar.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  14. #14
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    There is what I call the Northern Dancer curse. It's the chunky body on long spindly legs. He had to retire for tendon issues, as did Native Dancer. Not that he himself had long spindly legs, but in crosses the curse can crop up. Nearco is never to be avoided.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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  15. #15
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    Default Not the pedigree but the conformation

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/northern+dancer
    look at the photo icon after the name

    If you look at his photo you will see a sprint horse conformation. Very down hill. A lower neck base and angle. Kind of loaded in the shoulder. All those things make him not a sport horse type himself. He very successfully throws his own type...especially to Mr Prospector who is of similar conformation. ND was very stretched to run 1 1/4 miles and he did much better shorter as have many of his offspring. However no stallion makes a career by themselves and with some mares he would produce a more sport horse conformation and those are the NDs who do nicely in sport. Also now even the sons of ND and MP are falling back in the pedigrees so their influence is less...however they are also in the majority of modern pedigrees so you will see them once or twice even 4 times in a pedigree increasing the chance of a ND like downhill conformation. The modern truth is that today the TB is a high butt sprint type conformation in majority.

    You first look at the horse and know what sport type conformation is and how it is different from todays typical racing conformation...today the majority of racing is 1 mile and "distance" is 1 1/8th mile. A very very limited number of races go longer than 1 1/4 miles so the conformation today reflects the needs of a sprinter...Northern Dancers conformation is the new race horse. PatO



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
    This horse seems familiar to me. Is he very dark with a lot of white? Probably have the wrong horse but that name is very familiar.

    Terri
    He IS!! Dark bay (basically black) with white blaze and 3 white stockings. He's a huge puppy dog with an amazing stride. He was bred by Phyllis Dupont and had quite a good race record.
    Our horses know our secrets; we braid our tears into their manes and whisper our hopes into their ears.



  17. #17
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    I associate Northern Dancer with quarter cracks and weak heels. Underrun heels can not only result in quarter cracks, they really strain the soft tissue of the legs.

    columbus -- downhill or not -- that picture of No. Dancer is actually *angled* downhill so I don't think that's a good one to reference.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonWitch View Post
    He IS!! Dark bay (basically black) with white blaze and 3 white stockings. He's a huge puppy dog with an amazing stride. He was bred by Phyllis Dupont and had quite a good race record.
    Yup, knew I used to get on him! He was a former inmate of Nick Zito . He was a doll by the way!

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  19. #19
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    Nearco was very much a son of Phalaris; hence the potential for a huge rear end. Phalaris was a danged funny looking horse.

    Sprinters are actually quite decent for sport horses, as long as they have Nasrullah/Mumtaz Mahal type conformation. Milers seem to have created the best/longest lasting sport horse lines. IMO, most of the lines that are really, really good for sport jumping are the speedsters with the Mumtaz Mahal type conformation because they have so many fast twitch muscle cells. It gets a bit dicer for eventers, because stamina is still of important--very few other horses are asked to gallop at 570 meters per minute and jump for 10-11 minutes, which, until two years ago, was 11-13 minutes with 45 jumping efforts.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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  20. #20
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    Just found a picture of me breezing him. I'm pretty sure it's him. He was a 2 yo then. It's kind of crap but will try and upload in the morning.

    Sorry for going off topic! This guy was a big handsome boy and very sweet. How cool to know he has a nice home and second job!

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



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