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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2004
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    Pine Top side of Atlanta, GA
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    Default Black Country Wexford, Quantum, and Ricochet trees?

    In COTH searches, I keep reading about how these saddles have different trees but no one elaborates on HOW they are different or how they fit different horses. It pains me to say this but I am in search of a jump saddle again...mostly for my young, small guy but he is built closely enough to my OTTB that hopefully I could use the saddle on both of them. Anyone out there got info on these BC saddles' trees? Yes, Patty Merli is in our area but VERY difficult to get ahold of these days because she's such a super fitter! I know Trumbull Mtn is out there too and I expect I can call and get this info, but would still like to know as much as possible from COTH folks - thx!!!
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2005
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    1,019

    Default

    My Quantum has more of a curved tree and the panels are upswept since my horse's back is not flat. Trumbull is great and will communicate via email - I think I worked with Nancy.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
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    5,413

    Default

    I can tell you that the Ricochet has a curvy tree, much like the Eden, its dressage counterpart. :-) I own the latter for my crazy hard to fit horse, it is heaven. Haven't ridden in the jump saddles, the dressage saddle was a gift, so I'd need someone else who wants to spend $3k on me, LOL.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 28, 2001
    Location
    Kentucky
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    4,373

    Default

    I tried the Wexford and Quantum on my guy. He loved the Quantum and hated the Wexford. I believe the fitter told me the tree points were shorter in the Quantum.

    Based on my experience I would not buy one without trying both on my horse. There was a huge difference in his reaction to it.

    Isn't the Ricochet tree the same as the Quantum?



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 2, 2001
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
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    4,707

    Default

    The Ricochet tree and the Quantum tree are different. My horse for whom my original Quantum was built is fairly flat -- my fitter was certain the Richochet was going to be the right tree for my curved back mare. Oddly enough, a Quantum with upswept back panels is what worked. Go figure.
    *Proud member of the Hoof Fetish Clique*
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2005
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    Default

    You are correct, Quantum has shorter tree points - which were a Godsend for my TB with huge shoulders!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2008
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    370

    Default Careful- Custom Options

    Just be careful with thinking one model of Black Country is going to have a standard tree. They do so many custom options that is not always the case. I had my Ricochet build on a flatter tree for my very flat backed horse.

    So, someone looking at mine used, thinking it is "curvy" would be wrong.







    Quote Originally Posted by Carried Away View Post
    You are correct, Quantum has shorter tree points - which were a Godsend for my TB with huge shoulders!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2003
    Location
    Yellow Point, BC, Canada
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    1,042

    Default

    Here's the Black Country website:
    http://www.blackcountrysaddles.co.uk/index.php

    It explains a lot about their different trees and styles.
    Hope that helps
    (from an owner of a BC Quantum)
    Another owner of A Fine Romance baby who has grown up and joined the fun!!!



  9. #9
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    Oct. 30, 2004
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    Pine Top side of Atlanta, GA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EventingChase View Post
    Just be careful with thinking one model of Black Country is going to have a standard tree. They do so many custom options that is not always the case. I had my Ricochet build on a flatter tree for my very flat backed horse.

    So, someone looking at mine used, thinking it is "curvy" would be wrong.
    YOURS is how my confusion began...hahahhaa Now, did you do the same thing with the Vinici? is it also built on a flatter tree? I've been out looking at my two guys and they really do not have similar shaped backs - Rasta has far more rise than does Merlin...sigh. Might request a test ride in your Ricochet with pony some day soon
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2008
    Location
    Athens
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    Default

    I think the Vinici tends to come standard with a flatter tree.

    I do not believe they had to change the standard tree in that saddle for my horse. They then build my Riccochet on the Vinici tree when I moved into that model.



  11. #11
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    Default Ok, EventingChase...????

    Quote Originally Posted by EventingChase View Post
    I think the Vinici tends to come standard with a flatter tree.

    I do not believe they had to change the standard tree in that saddle for my horse. They then build my Riccochet on the Vinici tree when I moved into that model.
    So, there are standard trees for each model, BUT, any model BC can be built on another model's tree? Smart!!! Could you then fill in the blanks for the following: Wexford standard tree - flatter or curvy? Quantum standard tree - flatter or curvier Vinici standard tree - flatter yes? One more question, since the Ricochet is supposedly the Quantum built on the Wexford tree, what is the difference in the Quantum and Ricochet aside from the tree? Sorry - hee hee
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



  12. #12
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    Sep. 9, 2003
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    Yellow Point, BC, Canada
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    Default

    Not EventingChase but,
    It is my understanding that all the Vinicis are strictly monoflaps, so built on the basic trees and individualized to your needs for a monoflap. If monflaps aren't your cup of tea, you want to look at the BCS range of saddles, which the Quantum, Wexford, Eden etc are classified.
    I believe the Ricochet has the deep seat of the Wexford with the square cantle of the Quantum
    Another owner of A Fine Romance baby who has grown up and joined the fun!!!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2008
    Location
    Athens
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    370

    Default No expert :)

    I am totally not an expert, merely parroting my interpretation of what I was told for my particular horse.

    But yes, my understanding is that they can build any of the models on any of the trees. I have no idea what the "standard" tree for each of them is.

    I do remember being told that the Vinici's tended to come on a flatter tree and that the standad Riccochet tree was too curvy for my horse so a flatter one would be used.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Oct. 30, 2004
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    Default

    Thx - both of you...fanfayre and EventingChase
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2004
    Location
    Sandgate, VT
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    Default

    The standard tree in the Quantum is pretty flat from front to back, while the standard Wexford tree is more curved, and suited to a higher wither or more curvy back. The Ricochet is a "hybrid" of these two saddles: the tree (with a squared cantle) and panels of a Wexford, with the Quantum built on top, so it fits like the Wexford but has the more forward flap of the Quantum. The standard Quantum tree will support a trapezius panel, but isn't substantial enough for a K panel, so if you need that, you'll have to consider a Wexford or Ricochet.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    Sep. 9, 2003
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    Yellow Point, BC, Canada
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    Default

    Velly eeeenteresting!!!
    Thanks for the clarification, Kitt.
    Another owner of A Fine Romance baby who has grown up and joined the fun!!!



  17. #17
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    Oct. 30, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitt View Post
    The standard tree in the Quantum is pretty flat from front to back, while the standard Wexford tree is more curved, and suited to a higher wither or more curvy back. The Ricochet is a "hybrid" of these two saddles: the tree (with a squared cantle) and panels of a Wexford, with the Quantum built on top, so it fits like the Wexford but has the more forward flap of the Quantum. The standard Quantum tree will support a trapezius panel, but isn't substantial enough for a K panel, so if you need that, you'll have to consider a Wexford or Ricochet.
    Thanks so much for this info, Kitt ... a super local fitter is coming to do tracings of my little horse's back on Monday, and we'll do pictures as well. There is a BC Quantum possibility nearby but I won't know until Saturday if its really available, but if it is, then I will likely try it. Also, Patty Merli may have a saddle that could work but had to check the tree width.
    Yesterday I took some pictures of Merlin in the barn and he didn't look as straight backed as I had thought him to be. I suppose that's because he's always got his head down eating and then his back is UP!!! It's still got a different sort of rise than my curvy backed OTTB. Kitt, if you don't mind saying, what sort of tree is in the Albion K2 jump saddle or the Bliss Loxley?
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2003
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    4,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RunForIt View Post
    Thanks so much for this info, Kitt ... a super local fitter is coming to do tracings of my little horse's back on Monday, and we'll do pictures as well. There is a BC Quantum possibility nearby but not sure I will get to try it until Saturday (won't do ebay because I won't buy anything I can't ride in for several days - no trial, no buy). Patty Merli may have a saddle that could work but had to check the tree width.
    Yesterday I took some pictures of Merlin in the barn and he didn't look as straight backed as I had thought him to be. I suppose that's because he's always got his head down eating and his back is UP!!! Kitt, if you don't mind saying, what sort of tree is in the Albion K2 jump saddle or the Bliss Loxley?
    I have been told that the K2 is perfect for a high withered, curvy horse. The loxley has several different trees available.



  19. #19
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    Oct. 30, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soloudinhere View Post
    I have been told that the K2 is perfect for a high withered, curvy horse. The loxley has several different trees available.
    I'd love others' thoughts about the shape of Merlin's back - I wish I could post pics but haven't done the premium member thing this year...I'm sending the pictures to Kitt and will get better ones for her Monday.
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2004
    Location
    Sandgate, VT
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    Default

    The K2 has a fairly flat tree, but can be had with panel modifications that suit a horse with a bigger wither and flatter back. It's also really hard to beat the quality they offer for the price.

    The Bliss/Loxley offer 3 different trees for the jump (and event) saddles: the Classic tree, which is slightly curved and can support a K or trapezius type panel; the hoop tree for the widebodies (it's pretty flat from front to back) and the Close Contact tree, which is more minimalist and flatter, and can't support the deeper panel or gusset that the first 2 can.



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