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  1. #81
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    Jun. 20, 2010
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    This may have been posted, but to those advising paintball or other shot...

    You can be charged with animal cruelty for shooting a dog with these. It's happened. Is that worth the risk?

    Just please be careful when choosing this method.
    ~ The Goat Whisperer
    Website


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  2. #82
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    Jun. 20, 2010
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    Madisonville, TX
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    Sorry, my computer hiccuped. Double post!
    ~ The Goat Whisperer
    Website



  3. #83
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    Jan. 4, 2004
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    Houston, Tx
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    So it's ok to shoot to kill, but shooting with rock salt isn't, interesting.. I personally couldn't shoot a dog, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to if it was bothering my chickens. And, I agree with the poster that said the dog isn't so innocent here. Or maybe explain to me, how come I have taught my dogs to not chase cats, bother my chickens, knock over my trash cans, sneak out my yard, etc... That's an honest question. I have had to teach them at some point that these behaviors were not acceptable. When they do something wrong, they know it. I don't doubt that in the wrong set of circumstances, ie: a pack of dogs and frenzied behavior, , they would be lethal to a chicken, cat, trash can, but on their own, they just know that's not OK. My neighbors dog that is willing to dig under my fence to get into my yard to eat my chicken food, knows what it is doing, esp since I have chased it off more than once.



  4. #84
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    Jun. 14, 2007
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    TX
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    The problem is people won't accept that poopsie was killing anything. If you kill, their dog was obviously framed but they can't do anything because they can't prove their dog didn't do the deed. But shoot poopsie with rock salt and those same people will have you charged with cruelty if they know you are the one that did it.

    There is a case right now in Florida. Dogs came onto the property and killed two goats, both of which were pregnant. I believe other goats were injured, but I'm not sure. The dogs were chased off but came back later the same day and were going after chickens. The dogs were shot and killed. The owners of the dogs claim it was not their dogs that killed the goats, that the dogs must have smelled blood and went to check it out or some nonsense like that.



  5. #85
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post

    We have neighboring dogs roaming on our property all the time. I never had any problem with any of them except for one, who killed more than 30 of my guineas in two years.
    When I lived very much out in the country,I had a problem with a neighbor's flock of guineas terrorizing my horses!
    Mare was just giving them the stink eye and snorting, but gelding was terrified with a capital T.

    I was sorely tempted to shoot the birds after the neighbor (who was completely unconcerned about the safety of his birds), would do nothing to keep them from straying but couldn't bring myself to do it. (I did get so far as looking up guinea fowl recipes ).

    They disappeared after they had strayed onto our property twice. Probably eaten by coyote or dogs. I had warned the neighbor that he was running that (the predator) risk but he was unconcerned. If they hadn't disappeared I don't know what I would have done.

    They were terrifying my horse to the point that he was likely to kill himself in a blind panic. I probably would have found someone to pick them up and give them away...

    That same horse would not tolerate any dog in his space AT all. So any roaming dogs did not return, if they were dumb enough to get in with him once.

    Anyhoo..in that rural area, dogs who chased livestock would be shot. If the dog was recognized as belonging to a neighbor, I think a warning would have been given. If they were caught killing, I have no doubt that they would have been shot.

    I couldn't take my goofy great dane with me hacking because he would go into people's fields and was curious about cattle and I KNEW that he could be shot and it would be MY fault. My other dog had sense and stayed with me absolutely.

    I'm sorry about your birds OP. I'd do the requisite reporting and perhaps, ask the officials to explain to the dog's owner that, by law, their dogs can be shot if found harassing livestock.

    I think fair warning is in order, your neighbors may not realize that you can legally shoot their dog. I agree that a rampaging Rott can't be tolerated.
    Last edited by skydy; Jan. 14, 2013 at 08:43 PM.



  6. #86
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    NorthEast
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    You can be charged with animal cruelty for shooting a dog with these. It's happened. Is that worth the risk?
    As stated earlier...it depends on stae and county.
    Also paintball and other non-lethal, non-piercing ammo is not considered the same as rock salt or BBs. And is allowed when used on your own property to protect your own livestock and pets in many areas.

    I've shot countless canines with paintball rounds, been reported a few times and each time the owner was in trouble. Not me.

    Is it worth the risk? A dead animal of your own, IMO, doesn't measure against a fine if it comes to that.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  7. #87
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    Apr. 17, 2002
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    between the barn and the pond
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    Everyone, just do what you need to do to feel safe.

    DH shot and killed two bad Rotties years ago. Those dogs were intending to tackle him and picked the wrong target. He let the third one, a female who showed no bad intent, run home.

    That same owner later went on to gather a passle of misc dogs who hurt our Lab. When presented with the bill, he paid up, and said 'shoot 'em if they give you any more trouble.' We didn't. But I think someone did. They vanished in pretty short order. If that's the route an informed owner takes, then so be it. The dog had fun until it didn't.

    I/we make every effort to encourage dogs to Go Home. But I don't have fowl right now, and haven't since the coons got them all. I will have to build Fort Chicken before I'll try again. It's a risk and a heartache I don't wish to revisit.

    I'm sorry about your birds, OP.

    I would be the sort to have gathered the dead birds and appeared, bloody, on the owner's doorstep. Sometimes a bit of shock and awe, helps.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
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    Aug. 30, 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianHippo View Post
    @ chisamba, If I had to shoot a dog to protect my animals, I would feel just as sick and sad as if I had hit him with my car. From what I have read here, I am certain that the vast majority share a similar mindset. I don't understand how you concluded that people would enjoy it, or not feel like shit, but for the record your conclusion is off-base.
    Again, the law is really quite clear about the property owner's right to shoot dogs that are harassing livestock. Your last post quoted from this website , but note that the source article is specifically about police officers shooting pets in the line of duty. It's not at all the same.
    Yeah its not the same at all. Cops are agents of the State (the gov't) so if the cops kill your dog without cause, its a due process violation under the federal constitution. There is case law on this, can't remember right now, as I don't do that kind of law. Ok carry on!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #89
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    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
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    Just a story. A strange dog was chasing the horses in my pasture. Second time, I went out with three things. A leash, a dog biscuit and a pistol. The dog chose well. I told the AC that picked him up the circumstances. A bit later, I found out the dog was a neighbor's new addition. The story might have been retold since that dog now lives behind a fence.


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  10. #90
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    May. 5, 2008
    Location
    Scranton, PA
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    I called the Dog Law center for our county ag building this morning....he called me back and referred me to the dog warden who promptly called me.

    I explained to her the situation, gave her the owner's name, address, and description on the dogs...she immediately KNEW who they were and said they've had many complaints.

    She's doing a house visit and issuing a citation to them tomorrow.

    I very openly told her that we've had problems with these dogs in the past and this was the last straw...I said, "And I have to tell you, next time I catch those dogs on my property, I will not hesitate to shoot them."

    She responded, "And you have every right to and I do NOT blame you in the least."

    She also said she would tell the owners that they would be shot if found loose on our property again.

    I know there's a lot of bashing about wanting to kill someone's pet...

    Listen, I don't WANT to kill someone's pet...but I will protect my pets, even if that includes using deadly force.

    I don't have a 22...I have a .243 and am a lifelong hunter and excellent shot....I will be upset if I have to take care of it myself, but I'm not allowing my animals to die because of someone else's negligence.


    Again, these dogs are NOT catchable or I would consider just catching them, nor am I going to interupt a Rotweiler attacking a chicken with, "Oh, excuse mister Rotweiler, would you mind taking a hike?"


    17 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
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    Jun. 20, 2010
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    Madisonville, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    As stated earlier...it depends on stae and county.
    Also paintball and other non-lethal, non-piercing ammo is not considered the same as rock salt or BBs. And is allowed when used on your own property to protect your own livestock and pets in many areas.

    I've shot countless canines with paintball rounds, been reported a few times and each time the owner was in trouble. Not me.

    Is it worth the risk? A dead animal of your own, IMO, doesn't measure against a fine if it comes to that.
    If you check my recent posts for one on the Menagerie forum, you'll see I'm on your side.

    I just want to make people aware that while shooting to kill a dog in the act of harassing livestock is completely legal, there could be ramifications for shooting and injuring an animal with non-lethal means. The owners can press animal cruelty charges against you.

    I just want everyone to be completely aware in their choices is all.

    As for the guineas, I agree! People should keep their animals on their own property in almost all scenarios.
    ~ The Goat Whisperer
    Website



  12. #92
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    Jan. 11, 2013
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    MD
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    11

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    the use of paintballs sounds better then using live ammo, that being said its better for the said dog to have a broken leg then to be dead, while im not liking the killing of this dog i understand fully that you want to protect your live stock and have every right to.
    Not to put a bad name on rotties because i love the breed to tuns but the people living at the corner house down the road from me has a dog agressive rottie and while i was out walking my dog, turned the corner and there was this old woman with this dog. Didnt know it was a rottie until i turned the corner about a few minuets later only to see her in her lawn, this massive dog comes charging towards up teeth showing and everything. *la sigh* scared the crap out of my dog and i havent seen the dog since that time. Again just another example of owners who get a dog and dont know how to handle the breed. I would have done anything in my power to protect my dog from the attack so i know exactly how you feel.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    Alabama
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    Some people deliberately set out to buy aggressive dogs, either for 'protection' or just to look tough. Bullies come in all forms, and I think some of the aggressive dog owners are just bullies, and they found another way to intimidate people. I still don't understand why people who don't want animals to grow up to be good pets get animals, but the worst owners seem to be the repeat owners for some reason.

    A distant relative's husband went out and bought a vicious poodle (yes, there are some) because of a neighborhood burglary and home invasion. The dog only liked him, and tolerated the wife and kid. Visitors had to listen to the dog slamming himself against the bedroom door, and growling and snarling through their entire visit. Guess how long anyone stayed there? I know the owner got a big kick out of bothering people.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  14. #94
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    Oct. 12, 2001
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    The way to stop these problems before they start is to aggressively enforce the "dogs at large" laws.
    you should have called A/C BEFORE the dogs went after the chickens- PA, like most other states, has a statewide "dogs at large" law, which means it is illegal to let your dog just run loose. You have to have a mechanism in place to keep the dog on your own property- a fence, a chain, something. So if the dog is running around loose off the owner's property without the owner being present to control the dog, the dog's owner is in violation of the "Dogs at large" law.
    Once the dog starts going after livestock, the law is clear- you have to shoot the dog. And you don't have to "SSS", it's perfectly legal. Shoot the dog, and dump the body at the owner's house along with a request for money to replace/treat any damaged or killed livestock.
    It sounds nasty, but in the long run it might save more dogs- these kind of irresponsible owners will continue to get dogs and let them run loose unless you stop them now. You shoot one dog and teach them the error of their ways, vs. them letting many dogs run around get killed by cars, poisoned, shot, abused? one dead dog vs. 5 dead dogs?
    shooting dogs with rock salt and paint guns is cruel and abusive, don't go there.

    But, if you can nip it in the bud by going after them aggressively over the "dogs at large" violation you might not have to shoot any dogs.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
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    Dec. 31, 2009
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    Area 51
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    1,607

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHunterKid90 View Post
    I called the Dog Law center for our county ag building this morning....he called me back and referred me to the dog warden who promptly called me.

    I explained to her the situation, gave her the owner's name, address, and description on the dogs...she immediately KNEW who they were and said they've had many complaints.

    She's doing a house visit and issuing a citation to them tomorrow.

    I very openly told her that we've had problems with these dogs in the past and this was the last straw...I said, "And I have to tell you, next time I catch those dogs on my property, I will not hesitate to shoot them."

    She responded, "And you have every right to and I do NOT blame you in the least."

    She also said she would tell the owners that they would be shot if found loose on our property again.

    I know there's a lot of bashing about wanting to kill someone's pet...

    Listen, I don't WANT to kill someone's pet...but I will protect my pets, even if that includes using deadly force.

    I don't have a 22...I have a .243 and am a lifelong hunter and excellent shot....I will be upset if I have to take care of it myself, but I'm not allowing my animals to die because of someone else's negligence.


    Again, these dogs are NOT catchable or I would consider just catching them, nor am I going to interupt a Rotweiler attacking a chicken with, "Oh, excuse mister Rotweiler, would you mind taking a hike?"
    Good that the authorities are alerted and you can do what you have to when the time comes.
    I LOVE my Chickens!



  16. #96
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanM View Post
    Some people deliberately set out to buy aggressive dogs, either for 'protection' or just to look tough. Bullies come in all forms, and I think some of the aggressive dog owners are just bullies, and they found another way to intimidate people. I still don't understand why people who don't want animals to grow up to be good pets get animals, but the worst owners seem to be the repeat owners for some reason.

    A distant relative's husband went out and bought a vicious poodle (yes, there are some) because of a neighborhood burglary and home invasion. The dog only liked him, and tolerated the wife and kid. Visitors had to listen to the dog slamming himself against the bedroom door, and growling and snarling through their entire visit. Guess how long anyone stayed there? I know the owner got a big kick out of bothering people.
    gives them gratification in an area they are lacking....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  17. #97
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    Oct. 1, 2003
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    Just re enforcing what has been said. A few years ago I had a dog appear in my barn yard, it was watching my broodmare and trying to get under the fence. He was big, but friendly, so I locked him in the barn and called AC, they came out to pick the dog up. The woman actually told me I was nice to not shoot the dog, but I had every right if it was on my property and construed as harassing my horses.

    The owner was a single man nearby who thought it would be fun to have a dog. Only problem he worked all day and thought it would just hang around the house. . . It was a "shot over the bow" so to speak, he got rid of the dog after the "talking to" by AC and has not gotten another one.

    Our neighbor across the street with cattle is not so nice, he will shoot first. . .

    Dogs need to be cared for properly and NOT running around the neighborhood.
    RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"

    "To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."


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  18. #98
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    May. 4, 2006
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    Seabeck - the soggy peninsula
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    "So it's ok to shoot to kill, but shooting with rock salt isn't, interesting.. I personally couldn't shoot a dog, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to if it was bothering my chickens. And, I agree with the poster that said the dog isn't so innocent here."




    Are you serious? The dog is not so innocent? Do you know how crazy that sounds....I guess maybe you recommend they sue the dog? good grief
    Last edited by Calamber; Jan. 15, 2013 at 03:43 PM.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  19. #99
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    May. 4, 2006
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    What Wendy said is right on the mark, no pun intended. The wild west, take it into your own hands notion of SSS versus using non lethal "buckshot", "rocksalt, or paintball begs the question when there had not been proactive measures taken. I had to harass, and I do mean harass the so called animal control here to stop dogs roaming and I do not have livestock here, just my own dogs but it is still the same. Take the most rational steps first, contact the owner, if no response, contact the enforcement agency, if necessary step up harassment, er contact. I finally got the dog problem more or less solved here and it was not easy but I did not have animals being attacked by those dogs. I would have been burning up the phone lines, and following up until something happened to stop it. I would have a very hard time shooting a dog also, but if I did it would have to be done under the most careful of circumstances, I would far prefer animal control than having to deal with very cliqueish, as my husband calls them, Norweigian rednecks. Nothing personal to Norway thank you.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  20. #100
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    The wild west, take it into your own hands notion of SSS versus using non lethal "buckshot", "rocksalt, or paintball begs the question when there had not been proactive measures taken.
    No, it begs no question at all. What you call "the wild west, take it into your own hands notion of SSS" has been codified into LAW in most of the states.

    Whether you agree or not, whether you would do it that way or not, is not relevant at all.

    For one to take the law into one's hand, one would have to be prohibited from doing so.

    Why can't you and your kind see that such is not the case? Why can't you see that THE LAW itself says we can do what you object to?

    Why can't you wrap your mind around this simple concept?


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