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  1. #161
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    Does that include the human hurting your livestock? How far are you going to go?
    Buddyroo implies the child chasing your livestock is fair game. Or the hunter that just shot your horse. Are you going to shoot him too?



  2. #162
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    The Wild West is alive and well. Shoot em up cowboys and girls.



  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    It' called a $10,000. Fine for shooting a great blue heron who just ate all your expensive koi or a bald eagle who decided your chicken or dog looked pretty tasty,among other things. Not even getting into shooting the kid for hurting your livestock.
    Good point about the illegality of shooting non-game birds, although it's unlikely a bald eagle will go after your cat or dog.



  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    Does that include the human hurting your livestock? How far are you going to go?
    Buddyroo implies the child chasing your livestock is fair game. Or the hunter that just shot your horse. Are you going to shoot him too?
    I implied no such thing.

    But thank you for taking it to the extreme.

    I would simply use a paintball gun on a child. Or a stun gun. I'd never think to kill a child harming my livestock.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  5. #165
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    Oh, and FWIW, I would probably shoot the hunter who shot my horse. If he accidentally thinks my horse is a deer, I might accidentally think he's a coyote or heavens, perhaps a Yeti. Far as I know, neither are protected species in my neck of the woods.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #166
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    pezk
    Still at it, aren't you all. Never are we going to agree.I still believe that guns provide a quick and easy answer to solving a problem. Many of you believe it's within your rights to use the weapon when you see fit. It is within the legal rights of people to deter and/or shoot non-protected predators causing harm to their stock and/or pets on their own property. It isn't a matter of thinking they do, they actually do have that legal right. I'll agree with you if it's a human being attacked,but for the vast majority of cases, I don't believe a weapon is the sole answer. I haven't seen where anyone said it was the sole answer. I do think people tend to be more...intense...discussing it online than they most likely are IRL. However thee intensity is often understandable due to seeing posts slamming anyone who does use that legal option. There is a way to disagree with someone without being rude or accusing. Are you going to shoot every predator ( dogs, coyotes, wolves, fishers, weasels, mink, eagles, hawks, great blue herons etc)? If the predator is a repeat, chronic problem and causing or potentially causing suffering or loss of owned animals, then yes people may very well resort to that legal option. As long as the predator is not protected. Humans are the most powerful predator of all. Only when armed. Otherwise we're pretty much large predator fodder. Are you going to shoot some kid in your fields chasing one of your critters? Excessive, ridiculous hyperbole does not help anyone gain ground in an argument or discussion. BuddyRoo may very well have alluded to that due to this insulting supposition you posted for anyone who doesn't agree with you. Rights are a 2 way street at least in some places in the country. And some of us do live in neighborhoods and dogs, cats, kids run around and cause trouble. A loose dog, even attacking chickens or rabbits, is nothing compared to a drug selling neighbor. Pointless hyperbole this time. If you have one and dislike that, move. It's senseless to compare dogs attacking small animals to having a drug dealer neighbor. Is someone supposed to allow their animals to be killed by loose dogs because at least they don't live near a drug dealer? Someone may one-up that and say they live next to a PETA member or gang hangout. And even in the last situation, just because something is within your rights, doesn't mean the exercising of your rights is the wisest course of action.Sometimes it pays to think first and react second.
    Few people shoot first and immediately without thinking about it. That's a knee-jerk reaction to an action you do not like. Nobody on here has said that.
    Many have stated that their instances of shooting problem dog or having had animals killed by one were preceded by multiple talks with dog owners and reports to local police or AC. Which did not protect their animals.

    And relocating wildlife predators is illegal almost everywhere. And rightly so, it's a horrible thing to do to an animal.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRoo View Post
    Oh, and FWIW, I would probably shoot the hunter who shot my horse. If he accidentally thinks my horse is a deer, I might accidentally think he's a coyote or heavens, perhaps a Yeti. Far as I know, neither are protected species in my neck of the woods.
    I thought it was Bigfoot.



  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    Rights are a 2 way street at least in some places in the country.
    Could you please point me to a legal document which gives a dog the right to harass and kill livestock belonging to someone other than its owner? I'd like to see that.

    A loose dog, even attacking chickens or rabbits, is nothing compared to a drug selling neighbor. And even in the last situation, just because something is within your rights, doesn't mean the exercising of your rights is the wisest course of action.Sometimes it pays to think first and react second.
    I might take a pop at someone I caught selling drugs to my livestock.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #169
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    Oh, it goes by many names! Haven't you seen the show? Yeti, Bigfoot, Sasquatch (my step daughters have a lovely song made up about a Sasquatch).

    lots of names. Not protected.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  10. #170
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    Really MistyBlue, you didn't see any posters suggesting shooting was the sole answer?
    And what about the posts slamming anyone who doesn't agree with the gun owners? I suppose they don't exist either?



  11. #171
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    Guns aren't the only way to deal with a problem.
    I recently dispatched a rabid skunk with a shovel.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #172
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    Pezk, I believe you're being histrionic and blowing things out of proportion. No one here is a shoot first, ask later type. Not that I've seen.

    Everyone has commented that it would take a real situation to make them pull a trigger.

    We all love critters. But what we DON'T love is having someone else's problem become OUR problem and hurt OUR animals.

    A few months ago, in my bare feet, I had to kick the ever loving crap out of the neighbor dog to get him off my dog. I broke my toe. I could've shot him. I didn't. I kicked like a mad woman to break it up. My dog was injured. You bet that if it had happened again (after I notified the neighbors for the 3rd time) that I probably would've taken more serious action.

    Why are you more for attacker rights than the rights to safety of those obeying the rules? I don't quite understand?
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  13. #173
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    Maybe you and Buddyroo could team up to catch the Yeti. Might be more profitable then shooting it. But that would be another solution -



  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    Guns aren't the only way to deal with a problem.
    I recently dispatched a rabid skunk with a shovel.
    Ew, my BO had to do that last year to a rabid fox. Unfortunately, the fox had already killed both barn cats. The act of bashing the fox, splattered "stuff" over both him and the BM. They both had to have rabies shots. So... a gun would have been better.
    You are what you dare.



  15. #175
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    Gosh, I'd love to have a battle of wits with you pezk, but I hate to fight an unarmed person. Carry on!
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #176
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    The problem is not defending yourself or your family from the attack of any type of predator. The problem is when many of you choose to use your gun to kill the neighbor's dog or wildlife predator when there might be other solutions.
    I'm sorry Buddyroo you broke your toe, next time seize the nasty dog by both hind legs and pull. Usually it takes 2 people, one for each dog,but that 's how you break up dogfights. The dog can 't bite you in that position.
    And I don' think it's hyperbole to extend the scenario to shooting a human wh is hurting your livestock. Somewhere and for some reason there 's a line. But it 's very hard to figure out where that line is from many of these posts.
    Guns, like a lot of other stuff are a divisive issue. How can there every be a dialogue if the limits are not noted?



  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    Still at it, aren't you all. Never are we going to agree.I still believe that guns provide a quick and easy answer to solving a problem. Many of you believe it's within your rights to use the weapon when you see fit. I'll agree with you if it's a human being attacked,but for the vast majority of cases, I don't believe a weapon is the sole answer. Are you going to shoot every predator ( dogs, coyotes, wolves, fishers, weasels, mink, eagles, hawks, great blue herons etc)? Humans are the most powerful predator of all. Are you going to shoot some kid in your fields chasing one of your critters?
    Rights are a 2 way street at least in some places in the country. And some of us do live in neighborhoods and dogs, cats, kids run around and cause trouble. A loose dog, even attacking chickens or rabbits, is nothing compared to a drug selling neighbor. And even in the last situation, just because something is within your rights, doesn't mean the exercising of your rights is the wisest course of action.Sometimes it pays to think first and react second.
    Do you fault a mama bear for attacking to protect her cubs? This is similar. Look at it as that our pets or livestock are something defenseless that we've charged ourselves with protecting. But I don't have claws or sharp teeth. So if a situation arises that warrants a bullet, so be it.

    Bottom line, no one should have to lose one of their animals just because some idiot decided to not be responsible with theirs.

    And why do dogs get all these rights that other animals don't? Some people are not dog people, you know. I love my dog. I like dogs okay. But I am most definitely a cat person. Other people love their goats, or their chickens, etc. just much as dog owners love their pets.
    *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    Does that include the human hurting your livestock? How far are you going to go?
    So, pezk... Would you just let someone hurt the creatures (livestock, pets or children,for that matter) whose health and safety is solely your responsibility? Obviously I am not talking about the weiner dog that trotted across the property line, but the feral mutt who is actively and aggressively antagonizing your pets (or children)?

    Personally, I have never had an aggressive dog on my property (helps that I have an aplha mare who tends to settle those matters herself), but I sure wouldn't kid myself that the dog wasn't going to die simply because I turned it into animal control... I may not be the one to shoot it, but that wont leave it any less dead.

    And BuddyRoo, I'm pretty sure Bigfoot lives up by me...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #179
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    Beyond yelling or shooting above the animal, what other solutions do you recommend?

    Your solution about pulling at hind legs in the case of a dog fight is downright dangerous info and you should stop putting that out there. That's a quick way to put someone's FACE right into the fight. And when you're alone with a dog attacking your dog, you don't put your hands or face in the mix. Maybe a trained fighting dog responds well to that but generally, it's a poor idea. I worked in a clinic for 10 years and I'd NEVER instruct someone to just pull at hind legs in that situation. It's DANGEROUS.

    My dog was being attacked by two PB's in the scenario I mentioned before. Neighbor dogs that I likes. They just flipped out. But it was not safe.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    next time seize the nasty dog by both hind legs and pull. Usually it takes 2 people, one for each dog,but that 's how you break up dogfights. The dog can 't bite you in that position.
    That is absolutely *not* true.
    You can definitely be bitten by a dog that you are holding by the hind legs.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


    3 members found this post helpful.

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