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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2005
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    Default Best prices on Panacur Powerpacs, and are they safe?

    I expressed concern to my vet about Fenway's overall condition, which is not that great. While he's shiny and not thin, he has a grumpy attitude is starting to look a bit less fit: sunken around the haunches, etcetera. She wasn't too concerned, but advised adding protein to his diet and doing a five day Powerpac. I've been doing a Strongid/Ivermectin rotation for years and it probably is time for a change.

    I'm also wondering if anyone has Powerpac'd a mule. Safe? Do they metabolize the high dosages the same way as horses?

    Thanks,
    M
    My ears hear a symphony of two mules, trains, and rain. The best is always yet to come, that's what they explained to me. —Bob Dylan

    Fenway Bartholomule ♥ Arrietty G. Teaspoon Brays Of Our Lives



  2. #2
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    Sep. 11, 2011
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    Default

    Valley Vet had the best price I've seen, and free shipping over $60 I believe. I ordered mine from SmartPak, but because I had other items I needed from there. SP's price was really good too though.



  3. #3
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    You can buy panacur in liquid form in liter-sized bottles, and the price is MUCH better than it is buying it in tubes. I was able to "power pack" my entire herd of 3 horses and a pony with just about one bottle IIRC, for about $110. I think it worked out to $30 for the whole series for the big horses and half that for the pony. You do need a dosing syringe--those are cheap (check Valley Vet, mine is a goat dosing syringe) and very handy to have around for other medications, too.

    Can't help you with a mule metabolism question, though . . . that's a vet question.
    Click here before you buy.


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  4. #4
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    Dec. 12, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post

    Can't help you with a mule metabolism question, though . . . that's a vet question.

    Coming from another mule owner...if you're not in a mule-heavy area, vets oftentimes just don't know! I have gained the majority of my mule medical knowledge off the internet, not from my vet.

    Didgery, I've never seen anything about wormers, and I powerpaced my guy with no issues.



  5. #5
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    Thanks, guys! Yes, GoForAGallop, you're right: even the most horse-knowledgeable vets seem to lack mule-specific insight. I even met one who didn't know the difference between a mule and a donkey (and I don't use that practice anymore)!

    Thanks for the good tips, runNjump and deltawave!
    My ears hear a symphony of two mules, trains, and rain. The best is always yet to come, that's what they explained to me. —Bob Dylan

    Fenway Bartholomule ♥ Arrietty G. Teaspoon Brays Of Our Lives



  6. #6
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    Default

    I would also say maybe a FEC would be a good idea before doing any deworming.
    Click here before you buy.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    I would also say maybe a FEC would be a good idea before doing any deworming.
    FWIW, we are in worm nirvana here. Never gets too dry or hot, never gets and stays cold long enough to kill them.



  8. #8
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    PP:
    Pro - kills all stages of encysted strongyles
    Con - kills in place, leaving the critters to die and cause little ulcers with every decaying body, causing colic symptoms for some horses
    Con - small, but growing resistance of encysted strongyles to fenbendazole, thanks to the widespread resistance of adult strongyles to fenbendazole

    Quest
    Pro - paralyzes the critters so the let go and slide on out, not causing the ulceration problem
    Con - doesn't get the EL3 encysted stage
    Con - can't be used on underweight horses or young foals

    Personally, I always use Quest now, using Quest Plus as my Spring rotation to get pretty much everything. I've already proven that strongyles have a high resistance issue on my farm, so I try not to use it ever, though I did put it into the rotation for my then-foal in a double dose to help with ascarids.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  9. #9
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    Feb. 13, 2005
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    Default

    To add to deltawave's tip, if you only have occasion to PowerPac one horse, the 10% liquid fenbendazole suspension (sold under the brand name Safe-Guard) also comes in 125 mL bottles. Two of those bottles, aka 250 ml, is enough to PowerPac a horse up to 1087 pounds.

    As always, it's cheaper to buy in bulk--so if you're doing two or three horses, by all means get the 1000 mL. And if you're doing a huge barnfull, get the gallon.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    PP:
    Pro - kills all stages of encysted strongyles
    Con - kills in place, leaving the critters to die and cause little ulcers with every decaying body, causing colic symptoms for some horses
    Con - small, but growing resistance of encysted strongyles to fenbendazole, thanks to the widespread resistance of adult strongyles to fenbendazole

    Quest
    Pro - paralyzes the critters so the let go and slide on out, not causing the ulceration problem
    Con - doesn't get the EL3 encysted stage
    Con - can't be used on underweight horses or young foals

    Personally, I always use Quest now, using Quest Plus as my Spring rotation to get pretty much everything. I've already proven that strongyles have a high resistance issue on my farm, so I try not to use it ever, though I did put it into the rotation for my then-foal in a double dose to help with ascarids.
    So what would you use to get all the encysted critters?



  11. #11
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    Quest (or Q Plus if you also need tapeworm control) and anything EL3 that ends up emerging will either 1) get found in the FEC done 16 weeks later, or 2) get killed with the next regularly scheduled ivermectin
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  12. #12
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    Thanks JB! This thread had perfect timing. I just PP my TB after being advised to do so from my trainer. We were not sure of his previous worming schedule, and wanted to wipe the slate clean, so to speak. I plan on doing Equimax in 8 weeks, then an FEC 10 weeks after that. Sound good?

    Arab/QH is having a FEC done this week. All the other horses on the property get wormed based on an FEC, and waste management is not a problem. Corrals cleaned 3x a day, pastures every other day. She keeps things pretty clean.

    ETA - What worming schedule would you recommend if FEC's consistently come back clean?



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Thanks JB! This thread had perfect timing. I just PP my TB after being advised to do so from my trainer. We were not sure of his previous worming schedule, and wanted to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.
    did you by chance get a FEC before the PP?

    I plan on doing Equimax in 8 weeks,
    If you want to really clean things up, without knowing what's there, then do the Equimax 4 weeks after the last dose of the PP

    then an FEC 10 weeks after that. Sound good?
    You need to wait 12 weeks after the Equimax to do a FEC - that will be 4 weeks after the ivermectin "expires" and allows time to adults to become egg shedders, if they're going to be there.

    Arab/QH is having a FEC done this week.
    How long since the last deworming, and with what?

    All the other horses on the property get wormed based on an FEC, and waste management is not a problem. Corrals cleaned 3x a day, pastures every other day. She keeps things pretty clean.
    They're low risk, the biggest issue being bots and tapeworms, so they should be easy to deal with

    ETA - What worming schedule would you recommend if FEC's consistently come back clean?
    Depends on where you are, how much of a problem tapeworms are, but for those guys, Quest Plus in the Spring, Equimax in the Fall. If tapes are not a big problem in your area, or if only hay is fed and little to no pasture grazing, then you could to Quest in the Spring, Equimax in Fall
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    did you by chance get a FEC before the PP?


    If you want to really clean things up, without knowing what's there, then do the Equimax 4 weeks after the last dose of the PP


    You need to wait 12 weeks after the Equimax to do a FEC - that will be 4 weeks after the ivermectin "expires" and allows time to adults to become egg shedders, if they're going to be there.


    How long since the last deworming, and with what?


    They're low risk, the biggest issue being bots and tapeworms, so they should be easy to deal with


    Depends on where you are, how much of a problem tapeworms are, but for those guys, Quest Plus in the Spring, Equimax in the Fall. If tapes are not a big problem in your area, or if only hay is fed and little to no pasture grazing, then you could to Quest in the Spring, Equimax in Fall
    Arab/QH was double-dosed with Equimax in August, then double-dosed with Ivermectin a couple weeks later (sweet itch scare).

    Thank you for the info! I've got everything written down As far as I know, tape worms are not a problem in our area. Horses are mainly fed hay, and are on a mid-quality pasture only a couple hours a week. Gotta love limited pasture space in SoCal! Thank you for your help!



  15. #15
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    Feb. 3, 2012
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    Is 5 days of Fenbendazole safe to give a horse with a hindgut problem or would it create problems? and can you give it while the horse is on doxycycline twice a day or would the Fenbendazole/doxy mix not be good? (given seperately a few hours apart, not at the same time)



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie10 View Post
    Is 5 days of Fenbendazole safe to give a horse with a hindgut problem or would it create problems? and can you give it while the horse is on doxycycline twice a day or would the Fenbendazole/doxy mix not be good? (given seperately a few hours apart, not at the same time)
    JB's been giving some great advice on this thread that I agree with 100%, but this is a question I'd ask a vet. I'll say that I've personally Powerpaced a horse with a hindgut ulcers problem and it did him no harm. It actually seemed to help a very little bit. Once upon a time, in the dark ages, the PowerPac was even recommended for ulcer-y horses. Let me emphasize again: it helped a VERY VERY little bit. I am not recommending it as an ulcer treatment. I suspect the horse mostly felt better because he had a crapton of pasty stuff going through his system, which may have temporarily provided some coating of the gut (roughly the equivalent of a human getting temporary relief from Pepto Bismol).

    But I wouldn't know the first thing about the doxy + fen combo.


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  17. #17
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    Agree with jenny - I'd absolutely ask the vet about any medication on top of any antibiotic just in case. I don't have a clue, but I'd be inclined to separate those as much as possible unless my vet suggested it as part of some therapeutic experiment.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


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  18. #18
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    Feb. 3, 2012
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    Thank you both for your replies. I've already done it... gave it her 5 weeks ago and didn't think about the doxy/fen mix at the time. She wasn't right for about 2 weeks after having it but the night I started the fen she had been jumping around in a strop wanting her tea and must have dislodged a bit of hay in her mouth which went down the wrong way and she started coughing. She has an adhesion or stricture in a band in her left caudual quadrant wherever that is (somewhere on her left!) and I think she hurt that coughing. So when she wasn't quite right for the 2 weeks or so I was thinking it was that but now I'm wondering if it was actually the fen or fen/doxy mix upsetting her. I've used Pyrantel with the doxy without a problem but thats only one day not five days. She's been a bit restless after eating the doxy feeds last couple weeks, but not her other feed, and I wondered if its something from having the fen/doxy mix. I'm trying to cut her down to doxy once a day and shes not liking that very much either.



  19. #19
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    If it's hind gut issues too, wouldn't the power pak (fenbendazole) help because it has gut anti-inflammatory properties as well?



  20. #20
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    Feb. 3, 2012
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    I don't know Leaf. This was posted somewhere else about Fenbendazole

    " By the time stringhalt
    or Shivers appear in a FMS horse veterinary intervention is critical. The following protocol is user
    friendly, horse friendly and effective: a double dose of Fenbendazole daily (4.6 milligrams per
    ... pound) for 5 consecutive days followed by 15 days of Ketoconazole tablets in the feed (2
    milligrams per pound) once daily. Ketoconazole, a 200 milligram time release tablet, is quite
    palatable and can be added directly to the grain without any extra steps for the caretaker.
    Fenbendazole in this instance is used to rejuvenate the lining of the gastrointestinal tract. It strips
    off the top layer of non-functioning cells in the large intestine, it has an escharotic (drying) effect on
    any ulcers, it elevates the white blood cell count (the cells that fight bacterial infection), it
    stimulates the immune system and it kills off any Candida overgrowth in the lower gut.
    Conveniently it also deworms the horse simultaneously."

    Does the stripping the intestine bit sound nice?



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