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  1. #21
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    I should also like to add that my BABY showed her what he was going to look like once he grew up (which won't be for a while, 5-6 he said) and that he was absolutely GORGEOUS, and huge. She was quite taken with his bubbly personality and said he was going to have a lovely head and great movement for dressage, though he had no idea what dressage or jumping were, to say if he was going to like them or not.

    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  2. #22
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    Thanks for sharing. I'm not a skeptic, as long as the AC doesn't try and diagnose a horse with "acid in his stomach" or "sludge in his intestines" then recommend a bunch of supplements.

    I've heard some pretty incredible stories regarding what animals have "told" ACs that there really was just absolutely NO WAY they could have known that, especially in the detail that they describe. One story was in a horse's past. The horse told the AC he'd been abused, but then he showed her him in a big field with a little girl. The horse's owners did some digging and found out that the horse had been, at one time, owned by a pretty horrible person who would ride the horse into the ground, but that person had a grand daughter who would visit and take the horse out in big fields and just hang out with it. It was very sweet...and absolutely NO WAY the AC could have known anything. Especially since the owners of the horse didn't know the story!

    I've also heard my fair share of hokey silliness. And I know the ACs will mine for info...like the time my former boss, years ago, agreed to do a segment on a local TV show with one of his horses and an AC. One of the producers caught her behind the studio walking around the truck and trailer. One of the first things she said that the horse liked to event!!!

    My vet admits to being interested in what ACs find on horses that are mysteriously lame. He says sometimes they will direct you to exactly where you need to look...it's as close to the horse actually telling you where they hurt as you can get!


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  3. #23
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    Obviously hearing things you want to hear is making you smile. This is also obviously what keeps people paying ACs, even if they insist it is only for "entertainment value". ACs, however, do not consider what they do as "entertainment", although they probably SHOULD.

    One should not really have to pay another person to be told that subtle insights are evanescent and difficult to come by. But if one is willing to pay for someone else to tell them that their horse is smart, beautiful, athletic, or what have you--go for it. I can look out in the paddock and see that for myself. Or not! Self-delusion doesn't do much for me and the not-athletic, not-brilliant, not-beautiful ones are loved all the same.

    The horse told the AC he'd been abused, but then he showed her him in a big field with a little girl
    Seriously, you don't think it's even REMOTELY plausible for a horse to have been in the presence of a field or a little girl? And that this revelation would be shocking or surprising? I'd find it shocking to hear that a horse had NEVER been in the presence of a big field or a child before. It's all how the cold reader "spins" these things. They provide the random keys. WE draw the connections. It's how our brains are wired, and it's incredibly hard to NOT connect dots, particularly if we want to. And anyone, even if they call themselves "skeptical", who avails themselves of this practice WANTS TO, on some level. This is also human nature and nothing to be ashamed of. But it does help to have an honest understanding of one's own motives and an appreciation of how very much our subconscious brains want to please us.
    Click here before you buy.


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  4. #24
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    I'm tempted to get my four done. Would be interesting. I've always had the feeling that Rue wants to talk to me. Mind, all the baby will likely say is he doesn't get fed enough!
    Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!



  5. #25

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    I had my horse read by a well-known AC in my area. I was a skeptic to begin with and at the end, I felt the same way as I do when I come out of a theatre after watching a mediocre movie. It was a nice story and all, but I probably could have found a better way to spend that money.

    Some of the stuff the AC told me was totally hokey. None of it was groundbreaking.

    Still, I think I would give it another shot with a different AC. My horse has a lot to say under saddle so I am sure if she was truly communicated with, she'd never shut up.


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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Obviously hearing things you want to hear is making you smile. This is also obviously what keeps people paying ACs, even if they insist it is only for "entertainment value". ACs, however, do not consider what they do as "entertainment", although they probably SHOULD.

    One should not really have to pay another person to be told that subtle insights are evanescent and difficult to come by. But if one is willing to pay for someone else to tell them that their horse is smart, beautiful, athletic, or what have you--go for it. I can look out in the paddock and see that for myself. Or not! Self-delusion doesn't do much for me and the not-athletic, not-brilliant, not-beautiful ones are loved all the same.



    Seriously, you don't think it's even REMOTELY plausible for a horse to have been in the presence of a field or a little girl? And that this revelation would be shocking or surprising? I'd find it shocking to hear that a horse had NEVER been in the presence of a big field or a child before. It's all how the cold reader "spins" these things. They provide the random keys. WE draw the connections. It's how our brains are wired, and it's incredibly hard to NOT connect dots, particularly if we want to. And anyone, even if they call themselves "skeptical", who avails themselves of this practice WANTS TO, on some level. This is also human nature and nothing to be ashamed of. But it does help to have an honest understanding of one's own motives and an appreciation of how very much our subconscious brains want to please us.
    Oh, dw, you're such a fuddy duddy!

    I understand you are very analytical (why does my spell check say that spelling is wrong?), and 98% of the time I am right there with you. But sometimes, it is fun to think there may be some things that just haven't been understood by science just yet and may seem all magical, goofy, or silly. And, yeah, it does just make us feel good sometimes to hear things we want to hear. It IS fun, it can be eye opening (sometimes we DO need to hear it from someone else), and it can give you a different perspective. I don't pay to have it done (for one thing, I don't know if I REALLY want to know what Toby thinks. Besides, he's pretty good at making his thoughts known!). But I'm always interested to hear what others have been told...voodoo or just a smart person paying attention, it can be fun and enlightening.

    And sometimes, the stories just ring home (the one about the two dogs made me cry...I'm a sucker, but I also believe in ghosts and Big Foot!).


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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    But it does help to have an honest understanding of one's own motives and an appreciation of how very much our subconscious brains want to please us.
    Aww, I thought you had left. And I probably should have recorded the conversation so that it may be transcribed for you, word for word, so that you might understand that I did not lead this woman into a story. The majority of my responses to things that she said was "OK" and "hmmm".

    Delta, you don't have to "believe". It's ok. You can call me crazy, delusional, stupid, frivolous, indulgent, whatever. Call me The Chief Tinfoil Hatter if you like. I am well aware of your opinion about anything that hasn't been "proven" and "accepted" in the world of science.

    What's the harm? This is fun. Don't be a party pooper. If the LMT finds something in that shoulder, I'm sure you'll have some explanation for the "coincidence".

    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appsolute View Post
    Personally - I just do not believe that horses understand the english lanuage to the point that they would feel insulted by being called Moose!
    Its not what you say, it's how you say it. And most people would probably put the correct insulting voice inflections into it



  9. #29
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    But sometimes, it is fun to think there may be some things that just haven't been understood by science just yet and may seem all magical, goofy, or silly. And, yeah, it does just make us feel good sometimes to hear things we want to hear. It IS fun
    I'm pretty sure I acknowledged that it can be done for fun (typically, however, only on the receiving end--ACs are quite frequently deadly serious about their "powers") and that there is plenty of room for the things we don't understand, etc. I am pretty sure, however, that the "unknown" aspect of this type of thing comes from inside our subconscious and not from any sort of ESP or special power on the part of the medium. We could probably do an excellent job of "reading" our own animals if we were so inclined. Having a third person, however, seems to give us a sense of legitimacy and allows us to feel like we're not just letting our thoughts and subconscious fill in the blanks. Which is still what is probably going on.

    Could there be real, actual psychics out there? Sure. But this probably isn't how they're going to make it known to the world that this type of thing exists.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Having a third person, however, seems to give us a sense of legitimacy and allows us to feel like we're not just letting our thoughts and subconscious fill in the blanks. Which is still what is probably going on.
    So, wait. Let me get this straight.

    MY subconscious is telling HER what it wants to hear, and she's relaying that back to me?

    So she's reading *my* mind, not the horse's?

    Trippy!
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


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  11. #31
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    It does help to record these conversations. And to listen to them with a disinterested third party and a recent review of the various cold-reading techniques that are used. There really aren't limitless numbers of "hooks" that are used--a couple dozen, typically. And the reason this type of technique seems to work so often (with fully and sincerely supported statements in vast numbers that "there is no way this person could POSSIBLY have known ______").

    Either there are limitless numbers of these skilled mediums out there, or there is another explanation. Because they all seem to follow the same script. The simplest explanation is likely the best one. Our brains are prone to following certain paths, and are more easily led than we are even aware of. It is not really a conscious act of being "gullible" at all. It is simply the way we are hard-wired.

    If you choose to take this type of thing as "fun", then it shouldn't be even remotely offensive when the technique is challenged as nonsense. If you are investing even a shred of plausibility, it would pay to look at the topic dispassionately and even-handedly, which ought to include a review of the technique of cold reading. Upon which, if one still is convinced that they are utterly invulnerable to this type of thing (and we all like to believe we are immune to what is often called "trickery" but is actually simple manipulation of psychological truths--nothing offensive about having a brain!) then more power to them.

    http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...eading&f=false

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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    If you choose to take this type of thing as "fun", then it shouldn't be even remotely offensive when the technique is challenged as nonsense.
    I'm not offended at all. I didn't post this review to be "challenged as nonsense", which is why the very first sense refers to it as an anecdotal recounting of the conversation and not something to start a debate over. You may certainly post as you please, but I didn't come here for an argument (though I did know you would show up with one, regardless). It's a fun story. You've said your piece, you think it's nonsense, trickery, manipulation, subconscious prompting, dot connecting, brain-path-following illegitimate woo-woo voodoo.

    I get it. Good for you. I didn't expect you, or anyone else, to validate what happened, that was never the purpose of my post. Now, what are you going to tell me if the LMT or vet finds an injury or soreness in that shoulder? Please, do share.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  13. #33
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    On second thought, delta: are you willing to put my money where your mouth is?

    *I* will pay for *you* to speak with the AC. You can use your wisdom on the techniques of cold reading to foil any possible attempts at manipulating you into sharing telling info, which will then disprove the existence of human to animal "communication".

    Whaddaya say?

    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    It does help to record these conversations. And to listen to them with a disinterested third party and a recent review of the various cold-reading techniques that are used. There really aren't limitless numbers of "hooks" that are used--a couple dozen, typically. And the reason this type of technique seems to work so often (with fully and sincerely supported statements in vast numbers that "there is no way this person could POSSIBLY have known ______").

    Either there are limitless numbers of these skilled mediums out there, or there is another explanation. Because they all seem to follow the same script.
    OK curiosity kills soooooooooooooooooo

    How many personal experiences have you had with Animal Communicators?



    (ironical note: at first I wondered why you had such odd perceptions of Animal Control)


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  15. #35
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    It would serve what purpose? Belief cannot be disintegrated by evidence, nor should the two spheres be confused. Anything that happened during "my" reading would do nothing to convince anyone else, I'm pretty sure. I am also in possession of a typical human brain, just as prone to path-following and being awed by a "hit" as the next person's. I never said I was any different from anyone else in this regard. The difference in my case being that I would not bother with such a thing as I consider it a waste of time and money, not that I think I have any special resistance to the technique. I have actually been "cold read" (if that is grammatically correct) and it was sort of a bust in one sense since the open-ended questions were fairly clumsily done by one of the "mediums" (plural, I've done it more than once, urged by--unsurprisingly--people who were offended by my skepticism) but I will freely admit that the occasional "hits" were moments where my heart would leap a little bit. Human. That's me. Incidentally, these "readings" were done by people who absolutely stated they were not psychics or mediums but de facto cold readers. FWIW.

    Alto, to answer your question: two. I was not always the skeptic.

    Both were full of the typical "he doesn't like the corner of the arena" (the horse was a she, but whatever) and "I'm getting some soreness in the saddle area" stuff. Pretty lame, no pun intended.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz 57 View Post
    Now, what are you going to tell me if the LMT or vet finds an injury or soreness in that shoulder? Please, do share.
    Still waiting for an answer to this question. Coincidence? Luck of the draw? I mean, most horses have four legs. One out of the four is probably sore(r) than the others on any given animal, right? Crude anatomy suggests that each leg has ~4 basic parts: foot, lower leg, knee/upper limb, and shoulder (or hock/stifle/hip). So that's what, a... oh, too much math for me. Good guess if she's right, considering all the info she had at that point was a name and a color.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  17. #37
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    Good guesses are real. So are coincidences.

    I told a MT that I use that my horse had had a DDFT injury in the right front and since he was coming off stall rest I'd treat him with a massage. The latter part of that statement was the important thing to me--he was stiff and grumpy after months of stall rest and the massage was a treat for him. The tendon injury was not why I asked for a massage. However, she left this very long elaborate note about all the scar tissue she'd felt in his right front leg and how she'd worked on that area between knee and fetlock diligently and carefully because of his injury and felt like it was much more "open" after the treatment, etc. etc. I guess I neglected, quite innocently since it was not really relevant, to tell her that the actual tendon lesion/injury was deep in the foot at the insertion of the tendon and not up in the leg at all. Bless her heart, she made an assumption and convinced herself that there was all this pathology up there in a tendon that is as normal "up top" (documented by ultrasound he had during the injury workup) as the other one. It happens. She's qualified, competent, and honest. But made an assumption based on incomplete information and deluded herself into feeling things that weren't there. Human.

    It doesn't sound like you're having "fun" when you are being defensive about the diagnoses that your AC made. I'm sorry if I'm ruining that for you, for real. But this kind of thing is my idea of fun in return, so if we both stay put we can both still enjoy the situation, no? Deal--if you read the citations I tagged from start to finish I will have a talk with your AC.
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  18. #38
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    I talked with an AC about my two horses several years ago. She impressed me with what she had to say about the first horse, although none of it was groundbreaking ("He likes his food" - uh ok!). My second horse she just missed completely. It was like she was describing a different species.

    In the end, I agree it has entertainment value at least. I also think that there are things science can't explain, and more mundanely, there are just people who are more "tuned in," whether it's to the horse or the person, than average people. But in all the stories I've heard or read about ACs, I've never heard of one saying anything that was at all useful. They just confirmed something an owner already knew about the horse. "It's true - Mooshie DOES love turnout!!" What's the point of paying money for that?



  19. #39
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    Oh, delta. I believe there are as many quacky "massage therapists" out there as there are animal "communicators". I don't believe all communicators do what they say they can, nor do I believe that all massage therapists know what they are doing. There's a program around here that "certifies" people (anyone, not just folks who are already human LMT's) in something like four 8 hour sessions.

    I'm simply trying to share something in a lighthearted fashion - maybe my patience for your persistence in trying to convince us of your point is wearing thin. I suppose I could have just ignored you and achieved my desired result - which was, as stated at the beginning, NOT STARTING A DEBATE - but I'm weak and I took the bait.

    This *was* a fun thread, until you came in and tried to make it all serious.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  20. #40
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    Fun is defined in many ways. Sorry to rain on your parade .
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