[maunder]

Aw. I feel your pain. My dad (now passed on) absolutely LOVED my old husky mix dog, Brin (also passed on). Dad thought I wasn't feeding her enough and when we'd visit he'd stuff her with dog biscuits or those horrible Snausage treats.

The only thing I could do to stop it was to not bring her with me when I visited - and he'd be crushed. He did NOT want to hear how an old dog couldn't handle gobs of treats. We'd talk about it and he'd get mad at me and grumble, mumble as only a dad can do.

One day I saw him feeding Brin biscuit after biscuit (he thought I couldn't see him). I think the count was up to ten before she stopped gulping them down. I didn't say anything because I knew just what would happen.

We're in his living room and...."erp" here came all the biscuits up all over dad's rug. That was the only thing that worked. Dad certainly wasn't going to listen to ME. He SAW what his 'kindness' had done to her and he never overfed her again.

I'd hate to have your mini founder because your dad just didn't get it. I agree with your move of your little guy. It's for the best. You dad may grumble quite a bit but your little horse will be safe.

[trubandloki]

Although he won't let us catch them to spay and neuter them either. :/

Would he notice if you snagged one or two every now and again until they were all done?

[SuckerForHorses]

Would he notice if you snagged one or two every now and again until they were all done?

Probably would notice when they returned with shaved spots!

[TheHunterKid90]

Probably would notice when they returned with shaved spots!

Our local humane society does a low cost spay and neuter for people over 70. You buy a voucher for $5 and the low cost clinic will spay or neuter and give rabies as distemper shots. It's an amazing deal.
He's the only one over 70. And frankly I cannot afford to pay for all of them to be spayed an neutered.

[trubandloki]

Probably would notice when they returned with shaved spots!

I guess. My barn cats are not prone to displaying their bellies while I am doing chores so I figured that was pretty safe.

[meupatdoes]

Our local humane society does a low cost spay and neuter for people over 70. You buy a voucher for $5 and the low cost clinic will spay or neuter and give rabies as distemper shots. It's an amazing deal.
He's the only one over 70. And frankly I cannot afford to pay for all of them to be spayed an neutered.

Well, considering that a cat neuter costs the vet (and I quote mine) "about a dollar for the anesthesia", and that for his entire career my vet's standard charge for neutering a cat has been a six pack of beer, I really have to wonder what all gets so expensive when the small animal clinics get on a roll.

Perhaps the horse vet can do it on the back of the pick up when s/he comes around for the mini.

[trubandloki]

Perhaps the horse vet can do it on the back of the pick up when s/he comes around for the mini.

Probably the neuters. Spays are not that easy. The problem is neuter all the boys and there will still be some feral male out there to come breed all the females if they are not spayed.

[BuddyRoo]

Well, considering that a cat neuter costs the vet (and I quote mine) "about a dollar for the anesthesia", and that for his entire career my vet's standard charge for neutering a cat has been a six pack of beer, I really have to wonder what all gets so expensive when the small animal clinics get on a roll.

Perhaps the horse vet can do it on the back of the pick up when s/he comes around for the mini.

I can't speak for small animal veterinarians because I am not one, but to me, if you're interested in best practices, then it's not something you do in the back of a truck with an injectable anes on board only.

I can see that there's an argument to be made for the fact that we're talking barn cats, not someone's house cat pet and that it's better to neuter than not. But in this day and age when we have a better understanding of anesthesia, pain management, etc, offering best practices costs money.

Most small animal clinics in good standing are going to do the procedure in an OR ($$) use a gas anesthetic ($$), have the animal monitored (machine costs money), have a certified technician assisting ($$) be using sterile supplies, possibly do pre-anes bloodwork, IV during procedure, hospitalize to monitor, send home on pain meds, etc.

I realize that not everyone wants to go to that level for their barn cats, but if you DO want to offer them the current best practices, it costs money.

[WildandWickedWarmbloods]

Our owner pays full price for all our vet bills and for those of her dogs and cats. And for our farrier care.

However, she has over the years gotten vets to give big discounts and even do free vet care for dogs and cats and horses in need that are not her own animals. You're paying for the vet's expertise, so it may cost less than 50 or 100 to spay a cat in meds and sutures, but it's not "pennies" or a six pack. Unless it's a very expensive bier. That's like saying it only costs a farrier the price of a few nails to reset our shoes, duh. We pay for them to go to seminars and keep up with the best vet and farrier care we can get.

You can talk to the vet and ask for a discount. Simply explain the issues and ask for a discount. Same with farriers. You'd be surprised at the discounts given by vets and farriers if the animals are not yours.

Our vets and farriers make enough money off of us to be able to donate their time for those in need. And the spays and alters are done on the operating table, not out in the back of a truck. Same with our vet. He has a surgery in a building. With a viewing area in the balcony for owners who want to watch his expert skills in saving horses.

If you don't ask, the vet won't volunteer. But if you ask, you might be happily surprised to find that your vet has a heart and will discount.

[SuckerForHorses]

Probably the neuters. Spays are not that easy. The problem is neuter all the boys and there will still be some feral male out there to come breed all the females if they are not spayed.

At least if its a stray from outside of the circle, there will be less chance for inbreeding.

[SmartAlex]

I can't speak for small animal veterinarians because I am not one, but to me, if you're interested in best practices, then it's not something you do in the back of a truck with an injectable anes on board only.

I'll never forget my grandmother's reaction to her first post-dairy farm vet bill. She had taken a nice male kitty from the barn and sent him to the vet to be nuetered. When she paid the bill she was absolutely scandalised!

"I can't believe what it cost! We used to stick them head first into a boot and use a pocket knife!"

[candyappy]

Let Grandpa feed Oliver. You measure out the hay and (nominal) grain and let Gramps be the one to feed it to him. Oliver gets fed, Gramps is the good guy in Oliver's eyes, and you don't have to worry as much.

StG

This is what I was going to suggest myself. You will still need to go and make sure that he has been fed, of course but at least you will be somewhat in control of what oliver gets. I would take all grain and treats away or lock them up( literally) and just leave a flake of hay for grandpa to feed.

[candyappy]

Aw. I feel your pain. My dad (now passed on) absolutely LOVED my old husky mix dog, Brin (also passed on). Dad thought I wasn't feeding her enough and when we'd visit he'd stuff her with dog biscuits or those horrible Snausage treats.

The only thing I could do to stop it was to not bring her with me when I visited - and he'd be crushed. He did NOT want to hear how an old dog couldn't handle gobs of treats. We'd talk about it and he'd get mad at me and grumble, mumble as only a dad can do.

One day I saw him feeding Brin biscuit after biscuit (he thought I couldn't see him). I think the count was up to ten before she stopped gulping them down. I didn't say anything because I knew just what would happen.

We're in his living room and...."erp" here came all the biscuits up all over dad's rug. That was the only thing that worked. Dad certainly wasn't going to listen to ME. He SAW what his 'kindness' had done to her and he never overfed her again.

I'd hate to have your mini founder because your dad just didn't get it. I agree with your move of your little guy. It's for the best. You dad may grumble quite a bit but your little horse will be safe.

Maybe your dad and my mom are somehow related? My mom comes over with her coat pockets stuffed full of dog treats. My young dog of course just goes wild as the never ending river of biscuits flows from mom's pockets. Of course the damage has been done and I am waiting out in below zero temps for my dog who usually needs a 2 am potty break after mom visits.

[Bacardi1]

This is what I was going to suggest myself. You will still need to go and make sure that he has been fed, of course but at least you will be somewhat in control of what oliver gets. I would take all grain and treats away or lock them up( literally) and just leave a flake of hay for grandpa to feed.

Per previous posts, "Oliver" is going home with the OP this weekend.

Problem solved. And I doubt "Gramps" would've stuck to just the pickings the OP left for "Oliver", especially since he's continuously claimed that the OP is "starving" the horse. Chances are better than excellent that regardless of what the OP did as far as locking up food, Oliver's life would have been a downward spiral in that environment.

[meupatdoes]

Our owner pays full price for all our vet bills and for those of her dogs You're paying for the vet's expertise, so it may cost less than 50 or 100 to spay a cat in meds and sutures, but it's not "pennies" or a six pack. Unless it's a very expensive bier. That's like saying it only costs a farrier the price of a few nails to reset our shoes, duh. We pay for them to go to seminars and keep up with the best vet and farrier care we can get.

My equine vet has a full surgery complete with operating room, recovery room, and a few stalls. He has equipment in there that some of the vet schools don't even have.

He is also the one who neutered and vaccinated my dog (in said state-of-the-art OR) for a grand total of ~$100 (1/3 of what the nearby small animal practices were wanting), and he has charged "a six pack" to neuter a cat for his entire career.

He also states that he basically doesn't get in his truck unless he expects to pull in $1,500 a day.

So somehow he maintains a state of the art operating room, has an INSANELY good reputation, neuters cats for a six pack, and still won't get out of bed for less than $1,500 a day.

He once calculated a canine surgery that other vets were going to charge an owner $6,000 for as requiring him to bring in an anesthetist for $100 for the surgery (he pays her a lot more than she would get anywhere else, since they make like $15 an hour or something elsewhere), the surgery would cost $150 in disposables, and take about an hour of his time. The most he charges for any surgery is $850, (no, SERIOUSLY) and he says (and I quote) "Making roughly $600 an hour is enough for me."

He is doing ok. I get out of bed for a lot less!
You should bring a beer by one day and get him started on a rant at how much the small animal places overcharge for simple stuff.

[trubandloki]

He is also the one who neutered and vaccinated my dog (in said state-of-the-art OR) for a grand total of ~$100 (1/3 of what the nearby small animal practices were wanting)

Here is some of the confusion. My small animal vet (who I admit is not the cheapest place around) does not charge anywhere near $300 to neuter a dog.

[meupatdoes]

Here is some of the confusion. My small animal vet (who I admit is not the cheapest place around) does not charge anywhere near $300 to neuter a dog.

Where do you go?

I just (as in three minutes ago to get the latest info) called a place that I arbitrarily chose as being the first on the search results in my town.

The charges recited to me were:

$48 for a "new patient examination", which has to be done on a different day than the surgery, thus requiring the owner to take off work twice.

Then, the actual surgery for a 25lb, 2 year old dog with two descended testicles was quoted to me as "prrrroooobably $400", which includes
-collar to send the dog home with ($6-11)
-the surgery ($315)
-laser ??? ($75)

So you are looking at $450 and two appointments.

Transit Animal Hospital in Depew, NY in case anyone would like to verify the cray cray I just heard over the phone.



FYI the average MORTGAGE in the immediately surrounding area is like $500 a month.

[TheHunterKid90]

Where do you go?

I just (as in three minutes ago to get the latest info) called a place that I arbitrarily chose as being the first on the search results in my town.

The charges recited to me were:

$48 for a "new patient examination", which has to be done on a different day than the surgery, thus requiring the owner to take off work twice.

Then, the actual surgery for a 25lb, 2 year old dog with two descended testicles was quoted to me as "prrrroooobably $400", which includes
-collar to send the dog home with ($6-11)
-the surgery ($315)
-laser ??? ($75)

So you are looking at $450 and two appointments.

Transit Animal Hospital in Depew, NY in case anyone would like to verify the cray cray I just heard over the phone.



FYI the average MORTGAGE in the immediately surrounding area is like $500 a month.

The laser is used after they sew them up to help speed along the healing process. My vet charges $35 for the laser but still. If I were to take these strays to the vet at even $100 a pop for neuter and vaccinations....which would be ridiculously cheap, I'm still spending about a grand to get these cats taken care of. I hate to break it to anyone but there is no way I can afford that. My husband and I are newly weds, and new homeowners. We live comfortably but certainly don't have an extra thousand dollars laying around.

It's not my barn and I bet if he didn't feed the strays there would be a lot less around.....however there's no way we could convince him not to feed them, thus the vicious cycle continues.

[blue&blond]

May I predict the next installment?

Grandpa will buy his own bag of grain and hide it from YOU.

Just a heads up.

Yup. This happened to me. Nice lady renting a room from me...fast foward.... my carrots were dissappearing at an alarming rate.

Carrots still dissappearing at an alarming rate.

Found out nice lady was feeding them like a pez dispenser. I mean handfuls at a time. (Do I need to add that two of them are fatties? Or that another is prone to ulcers? Not really. You'd think me saying no more would do it, right?)

As much as I tried to explain...to no avail. So, I just stopped buying them. Period.

Next thing I know, nice lady is buying them......

She has since moved, thank goodness.

[californianinkansas]

Not all old people are like your father (I had one somewhat like yours, we did my version of clicker training and it worked. It was the 3 strikes and your out for the day plan).

Sounds like the OP handled it well.

Ma'am,
I agree that she handled his FIL with class and tact. Moving Oliver is the wisest option for all involved.

Three strikes is a good way to frame it.

I do have to apologize for being a bit over-sensitive on the subject of overfeeding. We adopted one of my horses last August from a sweet, caring older couple. They had been trying to give him away for the past two years to anyone who would take him. The husband had Very Firm Opinions about proper horse care. Fluffy had some significant behavior problems; he was quite overweight, very cresty when we brought him home. They told me the bad behavior was caused by Fluff telling them that he was very hungry, so they immediately fed him some more. He had not been ridden or otherwise worked in 5 years; he was being fed daily lush pasture, and brome hay, and grain.
Once we got him "sober" off the grain and on to an appropriate feed plan, he turned into a lovely horse.

This post was much longer than I intended. Thank you for your forbearance.

Amber