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  1. #1
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    Default A Rules Discussion- Placing rails in warm up

    One of my favorite warm up exercises is a small oxer with 9' placing rails on each side. It helps me find my rhythm and get my eye adjusted and get me relaxed. But I can't do it at events...but you CAN do it at h/j shows. So, what's the difference? Why can't we do something like that?

    Discuss.



  2. #2
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    no idea why it isn't allowed. Perhaps just because we have more limited warm up space generally?
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  3. #3
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    Because we don't "claim" fences like h/j riders/trainers?


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  4. #4
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    In addition to what Beam Me Up said above... because not everyone knows the proper distance for placing... potentially setting folks up for problems. I can see it now, Trainer A doesn't know squat and puts a pole at a wrong distance... their horse, being a saint, is used to the fubbar that is Trainer A's distances and works it out... but horse from Trainer B doesn't and since, as BMU said, trainers don't "claim" fences, horse be attempts fence and fubbar placing rail and voila... rider B gets hurt and then you have the finger pointing of who is responsible.

    The rules, IIRC, state that no ground poles may be placed on the landing side of the fence and I think it's a good idea. Could you potentially do the same exercise with ground poles instead of a fence and pole if you feel the exercise is really needed? A TD/PoGJ may let you do that since it's not a "fence"
    ************
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbritches View Post
    One of my favorite warm up exercises is a small oxer with 9' placing rails on each side. It helps me find my rhythm and get my eye adjusted and get me relaxed. But I can't do it at events...but you CAN do it at h/j shows. So, what's the difference? Why can't we do something like that?

    Discuss.
    What I was told (and I do not know when it happened or even if it is true)

    Sombody who DID know what they were doing set up a placing pole at an unconventional distance, but it was right for what he was doing with that horse (maybe a trot approach to a big fence, not sure).

    When he was finished he went into the ring. leaving the placing pole at an unconventional distance.

    Another, less accomplished, rider didn't realize the palcing pole was at an "odd" distance, cantered it "normally", and had a nasty crash, and was badly hurt.

    Nobody wanted that to happen again. They tried to figure out how to prevent it, and decided the simplest/safest way to do it was to bann ALL rolled out groundlines/placing poles.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  6. #6
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  7. #7
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    I love placing pole for when things go wonky. Settles the horse and rider back into a rhythm. But Never at a show or event, Scary what happened to someone.
    bad on the trainer for not removing it before leaving.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  8. #8
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    Oh, Sannois, you'd be AMAZED at what trainers do in warmup and just walk away.
    When the warmup is not stewarded many of the rules regarding the fences are routinely ignored-- the intent is to have a safe, level playing field,so in addition to limitations on ground poles there are (as I'm sure you all know) limitations on height.
    Mr. asterix stewards the warmups at our HTs -- it's a limited space, so it is important to limit the number of riders in the area -- anyone who is a repeat customer knows that the rules are politely enforced, but, yes, every time he has to have a conversation with a trainer or two (including the fact that it is not HIS job to put the fences back to a proper configuration -- if you lower the oxer 3 holes, you should put it back).
    The big man -- no longer an only child

    His new little brother


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  9. #9
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    Agreed, Asterix. I've seen "trainers" and trainers bump up or down the fence heights in the warmup and then not put them back. I tend to compete with a trainer nearby - what if I wanted to jump that vertical at the height it's supposed to be at? I don't have anybody to help me move it back down.

    Don't mess with the warmup fences. It's one of the many reasons why I prefer eventing to hunter/jumper land.
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

    So, the Zen Buddhist says to the hotdog vendor, "Make me one with everything."


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  10. #10
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    Jun. 23, 2003
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    "Bump up"? How about CRANK up (even above what should be allowed), and then walk away, leaving them that way? As someone who routinely shows by myself, without "ground crew", this makes me just a little titch crazy ;->
    Yvonne Lucas
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    "Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Jim Wofford

    "Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant." - Jim Wofford


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  11. #11
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    Do whatever you need to do at home. At a show, the simplest and safest common denominator should be used, and if that means that all possible schooling options are not available to you at the last minute, oh well. Level playing field and all that. The last thing we need is a bunch of trainers monkeying around with the 3 fences that serve 30 horses trying to warm up!
    Click here before you buy.


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  12. #12
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    amen yventer!



  13. #13
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    No placing poles at FEI - no way, no how. I have a reminder on this every year for FHI warmup. The poles may not be rolled out any further than about a meter on the take off side (there is a measurement but I don't have fast enough internet to download the entire FEI rulebook and search for it) And NOTHING on the landing side at all.

    Since national rules follow the FEI rules, unless specifically covered in the USEF/USEA rules, your warmup will follow the FEI. They are quite clear on the warmup heights, sizes of jumps, etc. as they vary with the class competing. The warmup rules come from the show jumping wellspring. I gotta find that and download it too. But not at home at night...
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by retreadeventer View Post
    No placing poles at FEI - no way, no how. I have a reminder on this every year for FHI warmup. The poles may not be rolled out any further than about a meter on the take off side (there is a measurement but I don't have fast enough internet to download the entire FEI rulebook and search for it) And NOTHING on the landing side at all.

    Since national rules follow the FEI rules, unless specifically covered in the USEF/USEA rules, your warmup will follow the FEI. They are quite clear on the warmup heights, sizes of jumps, etc. as they vary with the class competing. The warmup rules come from the show jumping wellspring. I gotta find that and download it too. But not at home at night...
    I believe the ground rail cannot be rolled out more than 3'3". And the fences can't be any higher than 4" over the maximum for the level (i.e.- Training max is 3'3", warmup fences can't be higher than 3'7") And I'm also pretty sure the fences can't be wider than 3" over the max width but I'm not 100% positive on that.

    There's also other specific rules like the rail always has to be on a cup, as opposed to laying on the base of a standard, or a crossrail with the pole ends resting on the tops of the standards. And if you have a crossrail under a vertical rail the crossrail ends have to be lower than the vertical rails.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Do whatever you need to do at home. At a show, the simplest and safest common denominator should be used, and if that means that all possible schooling options are not available to you at the last minute, oh well. Level playing field and all that. The last thing we need is a bunch of trainers monkeying around with the 3 fences that serve 30 horses trying to warm up!
    To that end, I like the "2 verticals" change last year. The hardest part of warm-up for me, assuming I have nobody setting fences, is going from a x-rail to a competition height vertical or oxer--I want to jump a nice ~3' vertical in between . . .



  16. #16
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    I like having multiple verticals, too, though I have seen, numerous times, where someone will raise BOTH of them...then walk away.

    I mean, really, common sense is just not that common.



  17. #17
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    More like "good manners and thoughtfulness" are not common.
    Click here before you buy.


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  18. #18
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    Coming from hunters, I was used to claiming one jump with my trainer, have her start it low, move it up, open up the ground line, add or take away "peep" poles, etc. Imagine my surprise when I come to my first event and not only is it not the norm to take a jump and adjust it, but you can only jump it ONE direction!

    I'm not a rules guru in eventing...but I don't see why if the warmup wasn't too busy if you couldn't have your trainer help you and then immediately fix the jump.

    My eventing trainer won't stand next to my jump...is that the norm? I'm used to my h/j trainer standing next to it...



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by reay6790 View Post
    Coming from hunters, I was used to claiming one jump with my trainer, have her start it low, move it up, open up the ground line, add or take away "peep" poles, etc. Imagine my surprise when I come to my first event and not only is it not the norm to take a jump and adjust it, but you can only jump it ONE direction!

    I'm not a rules guru in eventing...but I don't see why if the warmup wasn't too busy if you couldn't have your trainer help you and then immediately fix the jump.

    My eventing trainer won't stand next to my jump...is that the norm? I'm used to my h/j trainer standing next to it...
    You can certainly have someone adjust a warmup jump, within the rules, but you have to expect that other people will be jumping it as well, and leave it at the standard dimensions when you are done.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by reay6790 View Post
    I'm not a rules guru in eventing...but I don't see why if the warmup wasn't too busy if you couldn't have your trainer help you and then immediately fix the jump. ..
    Because there are only 3, occasionally 4, warm-up jumps and almost always more than 3 or 4 people trying to warm-up. "Claiming" a jump does not allow everyone the same ability to warmup. In addition, many eventers warm-up without a trainer and so cannot claim their own jump and cannot easily do multiple height adjustments in their warm-up. As others have said, level playing field.
    I have been warm-up steward for SJ too and there is always someone who messes with the heights and then disappears
    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)


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