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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    To use your comparison - you clearly do not have any foot problems that make it extremely painful for you to walk barefoot. Some people do. If I was forced to be barefoot (which I have always preferred for myself until my feet decided I couldn't anymore) I would not be able to walk most of the time.

    Good thing my doctor is not a barefoot trimmer type who insists I just work thru the pain until my feet get used to it.
    Who said work through the pain? I said try boots and see if it helps. Just because you can't go barefoot doesn't mean I should be in shoes.

    I don't have anything against shoes where they're needed. Just haven't had a horse that needs them or that boots won't handle if its going to be a rough day.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    Really?

    I can't imagine how it could be even infinitesimally similar.
    You don't think horse feet expand and contract when they step? You don't think horses feel the terrrain under their feet and adjust to it? Do you think that hoof is just a solid block to stomp around on?

    Considering they need those hooves to run from danger, I would think they are even more sensitive than a person and nature is best left to do her job, whenever possible.



  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    You don't think horse feet expand and contract when they step?
    Sure, and they do so with our without shoes.

    You don't think horses feel the terrrain under their feet and adjust to it?
    Sure, but not in the way that humans feel the ground with the skin on the bottom of their feet. Horses walk on the hardened, keratinous distal tips of a single vestigial digit on the end of each of their four limbs. How is that even remotely analagous to your two skin-covered feet?

    Do you think that hoof is just a solid block to stomp around on?


    Considering they need those hooves to run from danger, I would think they are even more sensitive than a person and nature is best left to do her job, whenever possible.
    Well, I suppose the wolves and lions have to eat.


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  4. #44
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    It would be helpful to see pictures of the horse's hoofs. Usually the sole will help identify any problems that may exsist and you would probably get help insted of being bashed on. It's sad but the barefoot vs. shoes debate is a real wedge in the hoof care buisness. So if you say you want the horse bare and the horse can't take it straight off, you are bad. Forget the fact that a cerified farrier recommend you try bare foot. He is seeing a reason for the recommendation, I am sure.

    Equi Cast and sole guard will protect those hoofs. Ask your farrier if he thinks it will help.....usually does.
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care


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  5. #45
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    I would have the vet out before I tried putting shoes back on. If x-rays are needed, the time to do them is before the shoes. After the vet visit, I would have the farrier come back out.

    I have one barefoot horse and one who wears shoes all year around. The second horse does not do well if he loses a shoe, even briefly. Horses are individuals. Some are best off barefoot and others need shoes.



  6. #46
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    Charlie, not to rain on your education or mental prowess, but the plural of hoof is hooves.

    If you recommend barefoot , you are relieved of the obligation to balance the foot, because no matter how bad you are, the horse will balance himself... or go lame.

    Barefoot for those who can, for the rest shoes. I've had both. And wonderful farriers.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    Sure, and they do so with our without shoes.



    Sure, but not in the way that humans feel the ground with the skin on the bottom of their feet. Horses walk on the hardened, keratinous distal tips of a single vestigial digit on the end of each of their four limbs. How is that even remotely analagous to your two skin-covered feet?



    Well, I suppose the wolves and lions have to eat.
    If its the same barefoot and shod, why does every vet and farrier say not to put shoes on my mare with contracted heels because they need to spread out and its best to leave shoes off her? According to you, it shouldn't make any difference. If there's no difference, an unshod horse in pasture shouldn't get pancake feet, but they do.

    I said it was apples to oranges, but I'm sure horse hooves are designed the way they need to work, like my own feet. I'm not comparing the surface of their feet vs mine. However, if I take my shoes off and walk on gravel, pretty soon my feet toughen up and it doesn't hurt. Getting back to keratin, don't you have feeling under your nails? Ever put acrylic nails on?



  8. #48
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    If it were my horse I would call the vet make an appointment for a lameness exam and then put easy boots on the horse. Don't put shoes on yet because if the vet wants to do x ray (most vets pull shoes for better x rays) or see the lameness you are seeing it may not be there. Then you can see what is the issue and work from there.
    Train like you have never won and show like you have never lost!!!



  9. #49
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    if I take my shoes off and walk on gravel, pretty soon my feet toughen up and it doesn't hur
    And if in the meantime you get a nasty bruise or a cut and are quite sore, you have the luxury of sitting or lying down to take the pressure off the hurting foot for hours and days if necessary.
    Click here before you buy.


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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    If its the same barefoot and shod, why does every vet and farrier say not to put shoes on my mare with contracted heels because they need to spread out and its best to leave shoes off her? According to you, it shouldn't make any difference. If there's no difference, an unshod horse in pasture shouldn't get pancake feet, but they do.
    ?
    On the former: my guess would be because they don't know how to fix contracted heels WITH shoes? Which we do on a regular basis, so it is perfectly possible, not even difficult, and mainly consists of trimming the foot correctly.

    In the latter point, unshod horses out on pasture don't get pancake feet if their feet are trimmed and maintained correctly. A horse left in shoes without having its feet trimmed or cared for will develop pancake feet too, sometimes with the shoes imbedded in the foot!

    Jennifer


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  11. #51
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    OK, I'll respond because I think I had a similar experience that may be helpful, PLEASE do not get me in the middle of the debate! NOT interested!

    My horses have always been barefoot. ( I do dressage through GP, serious trails.) A new horse I bought 6 years ago did fine. But, after I moved to a new barn about two years ago, I had similar problems to yours. She has always been sound, but had what I thought was soreness, abscesses, whatever. Couldn't get anything to come out, and it kept seeming to "switch." My vet out--very good at lameness. What we decided was it was bilateral in both front feet when blocked.

    We didn't do the xray route, but what we figured is the old barn and pasture was on the sunrise side of a hill and dried out slowly. The new barn is on top of a hill and dries out quickly. We had a winter (I'm in northern CA) where it would rain heavily and the dry out for a few weeks over and over. Her feet were getting softened from the rain and not "drying out" as fast as the ground, which would get hard really fast. and she basically inflammed in the bursa.

    Heavy bute helped considerably, but we didn't want to keep her on that, and it didn't solve the problem. So, we ended up injecting both front feet to really get at it and putting on shoes. That really helped. I ended up taking off the shoes after the first cycle because she was actually getting more sore again. As soon as I took off her shoes, she went from 80% is sound to 100% sound, especially behind.

    With Tom's advice, I used Durasole to thicken the sole so that she has that extra protection. I still use it abut weekly. She stays sound.

    So, there may be something there that is helpful to you.


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrygoround View Post
    Charlie, not to rain on your education or mental prowess, but the plural of hoof is hooves.

    If you recommend barefoot , you are relieved of the obligation to balance the foot, because no matter how bad you are, the horse will balance himself... or go lame.

    Barefoot for those who can, for the rest shoes. I've had both. And wonderful farriers.
    Sorry about the typo. Hooves it is.

    I don't get what you are suggesting. Did the OP's certified farrier decide he was going to let the horse fix/balance himself by removing his shoes?

    If he infact figured the horse could do a better job with the balance of his own feet he must be on to something.....as you stated.

    If you are sugesting anyone can pick up a hoof and hack at it with no obligation as to the soundness or correctness of that action....you are living in another world.
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdCharm View Post
    On the former: my guess would be because they don't know how to fix contracted heels WITH shoes? Which we do on a regular basis, so it is perfectly possible, not even difficult, and mainly consists of trimming the foot correctly.

    In the latter point, unshod horses out on pasture don't get pancake feet if their feet are trimmed and maintained correctly. A horse left in shoes without having its feet trimmed or cared for will develop pancake feet too, sometimes with the shoes imbedded in the foot!

    Jennifer
    Exactly. I could not have said it better myself!

    (Except for the tiny misspelling of embedded. )



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    I said it was apples to oranges, but I'm sure horse hooves are designed the way they need to work, like my own feet.
    And as nature would have it, not every hoof, and not every human foot, is perfectly designed to function in an optimal way under all circumstances. In fact, some are destined to underperform for a variety of reasons.

    For example, I have bunions, one of which renders me lame and will require surgery. My best horse has crappy feet and can't function in the world without shoes year-round.

    Genetics. Thanks, Ma Nature.


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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    And as nature would have it, not every hoof, and not every human foot, is perfectly designed to function in an optimal way under all circumstances. In fact, some are destined to underperform for a variety of reasons.

    For example, I have bunions, one of which renders me lame and will require surgery. My best horse has crappy feet and can't function in the world without shoes year-round.

    Genetics. Thanks, Ma Nature.
    I also think nature didn't intend horses to be worked on cobblestone streets, pulling carts and carrying riders.

    And on the pancake feet; or feet in general; if the main thing I have learned there is no absolute.

    Pulled shoes on a few of mine recently and put them out in a pasture with 20 other horses and the actually self trimmed really well. Even today there isn't much to trim... I am proud of them..
    Train like you have never won and show like you have never lost!!!



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    And if in the meantime you get a nasty bruise or a cut and are quite sore, you have the luxury of sitting or lying down to take the pressure off the hurting foot for hours and days if necessary.
    I said gravel, not broken glass.

    One of the benefits of going barefoot is if you step on something hard or sharp, you know it pretty darn quick and can take your weight off, then you don't get hurt. This is true with the barefoot shoes too. If you step on a rock, you don't put weight on it, you can feel it through the thin sole. So you don't step on it and have it roll and knock you over or hurt you.



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdCharm View Post
    On the former: my guess would be because they don't know how to fix contracted heels WITH shoes? Which we do on a regular basis, so it is perfectly possible, not even difficult, and mainly consists of trimming the foot correctly.

    In the latter point, unshod horses out on pasture don't get pancake feet if their feet are trimmed and maintained correctly. A horse left in shoes without having its feet trimmed or cared for will develop pancake feet too, sometimes with the shoes imbedded in the foot!

    Jennifer
    Well, that's what the farrier does. Trim her feet nicely. Her feet are coming along well. I trust my professionals. She has high, contracted heels, and they all said no shoes.

    What is good about having shoes embedded in the foot? Most people I would think take shoes off for pasture, and trim every 8 weeks. Their feet spread.



  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    And as nature would have it, not every hoof, and not every human foot, is perfectly designed to function in an optimal way under all circumstances. In fact, some are destined to underperform for a variety of reasons.

    For example, I have bunions, one of which renders me lame and will require surgery. My best horse has crappy feet and can't function in the world without shoes year-round.

    Genetics. Thanks, Ma Nature.

    I have never said all horses should be shod or barefoot. Some horses need shoes. My own horses have been always barefoot or transitioned and were fine. That's my experience.

    My friend had horrible plantar fascitis. Couldn't walk around for more then a couple hours. She's changed to barefoot shoes too. Its gone. She goes to disneyland all the time (me too) for hours, sometimes 10-12. No problem. Same for me. Standing in lines used to kill my back. It was pretty much chronic anyway. Now I can go there all day, standing walking etc. No problem. Will it work for everybody? Of course not. But so far people we know who have talked to us about it are trying it with great results. All we can say is how well they work for us, how it works for them, who knows.


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  19. #59
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    I am barefoot and very comfortably so whenever I'm not required to wear shoes, and actually can walk on gravel--carefully. But are you really suggesting that it is not possible to cut or injure oneself walking on gravel? Ever tried jogging on it, taken a bad step, found a bit of debris out there? It hurts like hell. And no matter how quickly one shifts their weight, a bruise or a series of bad steps can turn into a sprained ankle or lots of limping. We try to keep our horses from doing this, ideally, no?

    I realize the discussion is metaphorical, but one can only take it so far. Humans don't do nearly as well on rough, uneven, less-than-perfect ground barefoot, if they have to move quickly and without fear of injury, regardless of how good their biomechanics are with going barefoot. If one insists on using this parallel to horses, I would wager the same statement applies. There are plenty of individuals, no doubt, who cope with extremes. But their excellent ability to tolerate, ideal physiology, etc. are not something one can simply wish onto another individual.
    Click here before you buy.



  20. #60
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    Well I'll never get those barefoot shoes 'cause I HATE standing in line at Disney.


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