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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    We want easy to train instead, and we wanted soon. I'd love to see a study that compared the length of UL careers for U.S. horses that get to Advance at 7 compared to the length of career for those that get there at 9. I strongly suspect you pay for the early development on the back end! And if that's true why in the world are we pushing them?
    My suspicion is that the riders taking horses to Advanced at young ages, like 7 or early in their 8 year-old year, fall into two general categories. The first is those riding to sell -- you get the horse up to CCI**/first Advanced early, then you put it up for sale to a rich YR. It's not a bad strategy for generating income. The horse will usually drop back to Training and also be kept in full training with a BNT. It won't be back up the levels for a while.

    The second category is riders who are more ambitious than they are experienced or intelligent. Nothing more needs to be said here.

    IMO the optimal age for a future international horse to be going Advanced is 9. You can do an Advanced late in their 8 year-old year, but really, the focus should be on confirming that they know their job on XC. If they've been brought along properly and they have the right brain for the sport, they should be able to contend with anything at this point. There should not be re-starts and try-agains, which we've seen in recent years with some very high-profile horses.

    I breed only for eventing and only for the type of horse that I like. It's a personal endeavor. The OTTBs I've picked up are more for a general audience, and in general, they're easier to work with and train, and, as my homebreds are very slow to mature, the OTTBs make faster progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    bfne has explained one reason why even with the more recent increases in event bred horses we're not seeing US bred horses representing the US. The uniqueness of our markets compared to Europe isn't going to change and I don't think without figuring out how to tap into the one resource we have in abundance we're ever going to come up with more horses to choose from when it comes to international events.
    There are a number of factors in the lack of team US-breds. First and foremost is the terrible, crippling snobbishness of the most recent US eventing chef d'equipe. If you want riders with money, you get riders with expensive, imported horses. After that, I'd cite a lack of seriousness in US breeding. It seems like there's plenty of people who want to breed, but a much smaller pool of people who want to support their horses in competition to prove the value of the line for eventing. That part takes patience and it takes restraint. You only breed as many as you can support.

    (There was a nice post yesterday at Eventing Nation on the Biddesden Stud, the Guinness's breeding program that produces Tamarillo. Yes, they have loads of money, but they also have patience and persistence in developing a successful yet non-traditional program.)

    As a final point, I had no idea the USEA still published a magazine. I'm a member, but I'm also mostly outside the reach of the USPS.


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  2. #22
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    Subk raises a great point about horses that are competitive at the lower levels, not necessarily making it to the higher levels. To some degree, I see this happening in YEH. And, as someone who was looking to breed my mare last year, I had a tough time deciding on a stallion... quite a few of the US stallions are proudly pointing at their training/prelim winners. Where are the consistent upper level progeny? What incentive is there to breed to a stallion that himself (and his best get) have competed to a lower level than my mare? Add to it that many US sport stallions have very small books, and it's difficult to look at enough offspring to truly determine What he produces, and what mare he goes best with.

    I was honestly kind of disappointed in what the US has to offer-- look at event sires in GBR and they are all of a consistent event-horse type, most have competed to the upper levels themselves, are by/out of upper level proven stock, and are producing upper level prospects. It's no surprise why Europe is ahead of us. Here, we are happy and successful making hunters, dressage horses, jumpers, and prelim (ammy) eventers that sell for big bucks. That's business. Producing upper level eventers is simply not profitable for a breeder, and in this country there are precious few consistent event breeding programs (with proven damlines and sires)...instead it's mostly just a mis-mash of individual breed-my-own-mare breeders like myself. That's not enough to keep a stallion going, or prove a mareline. I read the Biddensden Stud article and was struck by how consistent their type is-- decidedly the look of a horse that can run, jump, and move. I'm not into Anglo-Arabs, but they have really developed the successful event type.

    As subk and BFNE said, I'm not really sure it can be done in this country. If you have a talented young horse that can sell for more money to another discipline, what incentive do you have to keep it and prove your eventing program? If I had unlimited funds, I'd use some proven upper level TB broodmares; breed them to select TB stallions to improve their weaknesses to make the best TB I can get; compete the progeny, recycle the best fillies back into the breeding program; add a little modern blood WB to those fillies (who are "improved" full TBs); and go from there. It takes GENERATIONS, but in this country we seem to be only interested in F1 (at least as far as eventers get). Europe is ahead of us, because they are on F10+.

    Meanwhile, I'm happy to sort through the "garbage pile" of OTTBs and pick out one or two who seem to have some eventing potential. Not all of them are poorly started, or overloaded on meds, or broken down too far. They haven't been bred to event, but they were bred for athleticism for MANY generations, and that's still worth something; perhaps more than a hit-or-miss sport-bred F1 that costs up to 10x as much to produce.
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~


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  3. #23
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    Default Why so fervent about the OTTB anyway?

    Huh, I really liked the last issue for exactly the reason you did not. Ok, putting on flame suit. I have ridden and competed lots and lots of horses. I have ridden all sorts of Wb's and of course Tb's (non track trained) and OTTB's. I've evented a bunch of off breeds too - Saddlebred, QH, Arab, the ugliest Appy you've ever seen, Morgan, draft crosses, POA and many grade types. I would claim I have a wide range of experience with many types of horses. Within each breed/type there can of course be a wide variety due to personality, conformation, upbringing etc. I don't dispute that.

    Yes, OTTB's can be wonderful. Nothing warms my heart more than hearing a story about a kid growing up in Pony Club with "all they could afford - an OTTB" and making it to the international level or to Young Riders or Rolex. I would also be excited to read of any rider who made up any horse to the international level whether it be an OTTB, a WB or a Paso Fino (you get the point).

    OTTB's can have tremendous heart and gallop. They can also:

    1. root like a mother
    2. be tense and... chomp, chomp, chomp the bit, gape at the mouth, grind teeth, toss head, be tight and stiff in their gaits, jig (there goes the walk coefficient) and my personal favorite, work their tongue over the bit and then you have a very unpleasant feel indeed.
    3. dance and fuss and be pissy about being groomed and girthed and some won't stand quietly on the trailer or tied.
    4. constantly want to increase pace so it is a half halt marathon which then can easily turn into pull arms out of rider's sockets
    5. take longer/be harder to balance before a jump
    6. have a heart of gold but their feet don't hold up
    7. Longitudinally challenging - which limits stride length making combo's and lines hard to get down without increasing SPEED which then sabotages balance.
    8. Ulcers, bone chips, osselets, and my personal heart breaker - tie-back surgery gone wrong.
    9. Their default is to run first and think later.

    Now take your typical WB

    1. Natural self carrying balance - maybe too much because you've got to kick them up to the bridle to establish a true contact.
    2. lay off the gas pedal and their natural inclination is to down shift
    3. lofty, swingy gaits and soft, loose loins and shoulders i.e. flexible both laterally and longitudinally
    4. happy to stand around and eat hay all day tied to the trailer even when the TB in the next trailer has a meltdown and makes a most disturbing commotion.
    5. Good bone and big strong feet (yes...of course their are those with soundness issues like all breeds but most I've ridden have big strong feet).
    6. Can take a joke and not hold a grudge
    7. Their default is to snooze and eat

    So...why not make the perfect combination of these two types for the ultimate event horse? That is what I got out of the most recent Eventing magazine. From Bruce's article about using a new Irish stud to the current olympic champion being a WB in registry but really having BOTH TB and WB. I think both types have some excellent attributes and when it comes down to today's format, a fancier moving, good balanced, good minded, scopey, SOUND horse who wants to go forward but not be in a rush with heart is what's needed. Most OTTB's don't fit that bill honestly. Most "pure" Wb's don't fit that bill. The horse that fits that bill is an WB/TB cross. I think Denny was saying the same thing.

    For American eventing, yes...there are lots of lower level folks and some upper level riders who ride American TB's to success. But, there is no disputing as evidenced by this latest issue in fact that the pro's are indeed looking for that WB influence which in turn makes them more competitive on the international level. What is wrong with that? Why NOT take an already self balanced horse and start from there? Why struggle and put countless hours into an OTTB to get to the starting point of a WB/TB? Why not just make life a little easier and start training a horse who has those natural attributes right off the bat? I'm all for putting time and training in but this is one "short cut" that is a no brainer. Jmho.

    J.


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyrider View Post
    when it comes down to today's format, a fancier moving, good balanced, good minded, scopey, SOUND horse who wants to go forward but not be in a rush with heart is what's needed. Most OTTB's don't fit that bill honestly. Most "pure" Wb's don't fit that bill. The horse that fits that bill is an WB/TB cross.
    I think it's more accurate to say that the horse that is most likely to fit the bill is a mostly-TB with up to 1/4 of something else. Historically, the most successful version of this is the TB-Irish mix, which usually was TB stallions on heavier Irish mares. I certainly would distinguish the trad Irish sport horse from the WBx. They are not the same animal.

    Successful WB breeding in eventing often involves the same blood-on-top model, as with the Butts horses, which were 'Hannoverians' but 15/16ths TB.

    In the US, the typical WBxTB is the product of a WB stallion on a TB mare. To get a UL eventer out of this combination, you have to know if that stallion is likely to produce a UL eventer out of a TB mare. It's really that simple, but people don't always have the self-discipline to follow the recipe. A lot of non-quality horses are generated this way.


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  5. #25
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    Joyrider, it is not that we are fervent about the TB, but more that I personally am fervent about our national association promoting a factually incorrect, and patently offensive position in a published opinion piece in its own magazine -- on a particular breed of horse which has been in the past and continues to this day to be ridden by ALL levels of American eventers, in both its pure and partbred forms.The breed debate is interesting, but the integrity (or lack thereof) is the scary part.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
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  6. #26
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    Joyrider, it is not that we are fervent about the TB, but more that I personally am fervent about our national association promoting a factually incorrect, and patently offensive position in a published opinion piece in its own magazine -- on a particular breed of horse which has been in the past and continues to this day to be ridden by ALL levels of American eventers, in both its pure and partbred forms.The breed debate is interesting, but the integrity (or lack thereof) is the scary part.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  7. #27
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    Default Pure TB dressage myth

    The data does not support the presumption that 100%TBs don't place well in dressage.

    In my data:
    34% of 4* entries were pure TB
    36% of horses in 1st after DRESSAGE were pure TB
    41% of horses in 1st after XC were pure TB
    24% of WINNERS were pure TB

    To me these numbers show the pure TB can hold it's own in dressage.


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  8. #28
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    Wits End. Do you have the stats for the 76% of winners that were something other than TB?
    The ISH is normally thrown up as the top event horse, but even the Irish see the handwriting on the wall, as so many of the ISH are NOT Irish/TB cross but something other. We recently imported 2 from Ireland one SWB/Irish, one KWNP/Holsteiner. Both reg as ISH.
    Don't get me wrong. We have 4 OTTB in the barn, but are now looking at other breeds as the impression is that that is the necessary way to go, for the reasons Joyrider listed and other reasons.
    As with anything else, dog showing, cattle showing, etc. People are going to buy what they perceive the judges to be pinning. Case in point look at the AQHA horses. Used to be a great all around working horse. Showed a lot in the hunters in the 70's. Now they are a crippled, waspwaisted, peanut pushing group. What a shame.
    JMHO



  9. #29
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    Default Chicken or Egg

    Just to throw a thought out there (and like another poster, I have no experience in breeding, only a LL rider), but with all this talk about breeding, I ponder does the Rider make the Horse or the Horse the Rider.

    Jeff Gordon could get into a Gremlin and drive it faster and better then I could his SPRINT car (most likely with me smooshed against the wall). I watched a young lady one day at a clinic have the worst time with her horse, Amy Barrington jumped on that horse and for five minutes I got to see some amazing jumping (and horse training). I get that people want to try and breed the "Best of the Best", but how do you ever know you got one unless you get the a Jung, Pitt, King, Halpin to ride it?

    What disturbs me regarding this whole topic is that in the pursuit of the Ultimate Eventer (similar too the next Secritariat or Barbaro) is that you wind up with many horses on the "garbage pile" and what becomes of them? I love JERs view that perhaps breeding should be equally focused on the understanding you breed what you can support. At least this way the market is not flooded with good, but not spectacular "products". We can't just throw them away...at least I would hope that is the attitude.

    A few years ago I heard about and read the synopsis of an article that presented data regarding the speed of horses. The conclusion was that horse speed had really maxed out many decades ago and there is little to no progress in breeding that will change it. If that is a reasonable conclusion then the attempt to breed for more speed is creating a waste of good horses. Sure, there will be horses that perform less, but none that will perform more. So I go back to my original thought which is, is it the Rider, the horse, the magic combination of both? And if it is more the right pairing more then the blood then why focus so much on making the perfect horse or the perfect rider, and what if we focus on finding the best combination of the two.

    I doubt we'll see a Comet, Goose, Neville again, because the emphasis is not on taking the time to polish the rough spots (which seems to be not years, but over a decade), but to get the sparkle right away, use it for a bit then move onto the next shiny object. I can even understand the approach. If you've gotten to 4* with your first horse, why work so hard, take the time to do it again, and again, and again. What you want is a ready made for my 4* ability now or within a year....so it seems we breed for perfection and the quick return.

    To the OP, I did not really connect with the whole issue, but it was an insight to a world I will never know so in that, I got something out of it.


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  10. #30
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    cindywilson - LOL! Mine actually came from a joke that some friends and I had when I was performing in a regional theatre production of "Nunsense". We also ran around town in nun habits and had everybody asking us if we were real nuns. A lady asked me how long I would be a Novice, and I told her, "forever" - hence the tagline.

    Btw, the lady playing Mother Superior spent an evening handing out condoms at a local bar (dressed in her costume) and told everybody "If you are going to have a spiritual experience, please have a safe one." She was a hoot.

    Sorry to hijack this thread!
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

    So, the Zen Buddhist says to the hotdog vendor, "Make me one with everything."


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  11. #31
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    It would seem that very few 4* riders take horses from weanling age to the top. They aren't interested in wasting time with untalented horses. IMO, Intermediate/2* is where most most 4* riders get interested in a particular horse to finish.

    I don't know if there is a different perception for OTTBs. And the German riders tend to do more with young horses, since many of their 4* riders spend lots of time competing at 1* level with their up and coming horses. They seem to commit to a horse a bit earlier than most US riders.

    This post is based on rather vague perceptions and might just be full of bull.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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  12. #32
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    I have given up having much of an opinion about what is in the magazine anymore because almost none of it is useful to me, an adult amateur. But Joyrider, all you have done is listed two breed stereotypes. There are OTTBs who fit into your "WB category" (I have one that has many of those traits) and there are WBs that fit into your "OTTB category." I know you say "typical" but I can't even say that -- I see a LOT of horses out there that don't fit your molds. So I guess I fail to see the point. I see horses as individuals, not as a breed, and evaluate them as such.

    True, I am not a breeder so I am not trying to anticipate what my market wants, but pigeon-holing horses wouldn't help me if I was.


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  13. #33
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    I'm neither a breeder, an ULR, or a geneticist, but:

    What's with the OTTB vs. WB dichotomy? Why can't unraced sport-bred TB's fit in?

    Don't, since someone mentioned them, Butts Abraxxas and Butts Leon have less than 1 percent WB blood? It's hard to see them as anything but purpose-bred TBs from very deliberately developed lines...
    "Why would anybody come here if they had a pony? Who leaves a country packed with ponies to come to a non-pony country? It doesn't make sense!"



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyrider View Post
    So...why not make the perfect combination of these two types for the ultimate event horse?

    ...What is wrong with that? Why NOT take an already self balanced horse and start from there? Why struggle and put countless hours into an OTTB to get to the starting point of a WB/TB? Why not just make life a little easier and start training a horse who has those natural attributes right off the bat? I'm all for putting time and training in but this is one "short cut" that is a no brainer.
    It's only a no brainer if you have access to enough of these horses in the first place. We don't. If we did our Team riders wouldn't all be mounted on imports. Even when we breed more, because we have different market pressure than Europe, we can't keep enough of them in the sport. So we whine instead of looking for a more creative way to solve the puzzle. TBs are a way to solve the availability problem, but since they're not a piece of the "European Model" we're to stupid to see it.

    I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't be breeding for sport and working to impove what we breed--it's just not enough to build the foundation for a team. The last coach basically said TBs suck so don't bother if you don't have the bucks to import something. Isn't THAT working well for us now? Being more willing and having more encouragement to seek out quality TBs gives us a smarter more multi-pronged approach.



  15. #35
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    I'm not sure what super snoozy warmbloods some of y'all are talking about, but I don't recall ever meeting one. I hail from H/J land, where this whole "replacement" of the TB with WBs happened a while ago. Now we have all this drugging and lunging to death nonsense, or at least hear more about it, so I wouldn't entirely say WBs are quieter. At all. I don't have anything else to add but just thought I might point that out.
    I've heard there's more to life than an FEI tent and hotel rooms, so I'm trying it.


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  16. #36
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    Default That chinking sound you just heard ...

    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    I think it is just plain stupid to look at the way the Europeans do things and think that the way we are going to be competitive at the top is to emulate their model. If for no other reason than the expansiveness of our geography.

    As an example, we've now decided that a good horse needs to be at ready for Advanced (actually CCI** so championship level Intermediate) at 6 or 7 because the Europeans have Le Lion and so should we. A point Mark Phillips has hammered on more than once, I might add. In England you can start a young horse and prepare it up to Advance without ever hauling more the a few hours from home. You can do it even minimizing the number of times a horse has to spent the night away from home. Travel and stabling all add a significant amount of stress--especially for a young horse--as well as time and expense and yet we ignore that and still expect the same rate of advancement.

    And while our expansive geography is a weakness we also are ignoring one of our most unique and greatest strengths: our abundant supply of capable and athletic TBs. But we don't like OTTB because the are harder to ride and harder to train than a WB. God forbid we have to work harder and be better riders. For the last few years our top riders HAVE been mounted on European (or European styled) bred horses. We are getting beat not because of horse flesh, but bluntly because William Fox-Pitt, Michael Jung, Mary King are simply better riders.

    I'm not so uniformed as to think that the selection of OTTBs that can make it to the upper levels hasn't narrowed, but I still think there are plenty our there. The limiting factor is just as likely to be training. But instead of having an attitude that would encourage riders to dig deeper, train smarter and make these horses successful--something that would make better riders out of us and more importantly increase our base of capable riders--as a sport we send the message that you really shouldn't bother with that route. Whether it's this example in the USEA magazine or whether its a YEH program that's been specifically designed to ignore TBs in both their written standards and its limits concerning age.

    As long as we try to be something we are not, we aren't going to be competitive. We aren't Europe. Our strengths and weakness are different and if we refuse to take that into account by compensating for weaknesses and playing up our strengths we might as well just bang our head into a wall.
    That chinking sound you just heard ... was me adding mortar to increase the height of the pedestal of your statue. Hear effin' hear! Holistic training that enhances and sustains signature strengths will almost always take care of the "weaknesses." They should be pointed out, contemplated, remedied and/or compensated, sure. But they should not be the central focus/purpose.
    When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.


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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaramouch View Post
    Why can't unraced sport-bred TB's fit in?

    Don't, since someone mentioned them, Butts Abraxxas and Butts Leon have less than 1 percent WB blood? It's hard to see them as anything but purpose-bred TBs from very deliberately developed lines...


    Very hard to find good TB sires available in the sport world here in the USA. There are a handful but not many. I happen to have a couple of mares that DO fit the more european model....hell, one is from Germany (with quite a bit of blood and a terrible registered name sort of like a lot of my OTTBs! http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/659962).

    So I WANT to cross them with a TB sire on top. I've only found ONE in the US who is approved (so my foals can stay registered--yes, that can be important for re-sale)...one other I think I can get accepted by one registry but while I love him, he isn't the best fit for my mares. Another was approved but now dead (Coconut Grove) but he too wasn't the right fit for my mares....although lovely. Just looking online, I can find dozens in the UK and Europe that look to have the right lines, conformation and movement And are approved......but so far, not all of them are available frozen or frozen that can ship into the USA....and I have one mare who doesn't do well with frozen anyway.

    Racing TB stallions, which we do have a lot of, generally require live cover AND are a lot more expensive. And many do not want to breed to your sport mare...they want race horses. Then there is the whole registry issue. And I do think that it is important that my horses have papers....especially if they are for sale. It is something a buyer may not care about but there are some potential buyers where it is very important. So it is something I do.

    So it is hard to find good TB stallions (that click all the boxes and fit your mare) unless you stand your own....not something I'm set up for or honestly, have any desire to do.
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Jan. 10, 2013 at 03:40 PM.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyrider View Post
    Huh, I really liked the last issue for exactly the reason you did not. Ok, putting on flame suit. I have ridden and competed lots and lots of horses. I have ridden all sorts of Wb's and of course Tb's (non track trained) and OTTB's. I've evented a bunch of off breeds too - Saddlebred, QH, Arab, the ugliest Appy you've ever seen, Morgan, draft crosses, POA and many grade types. I would claim I have a wide range of experience with many types of horses. Within each breed/type there can of course be a wide variety due to personality, conformation, upbringing etc. I don't dispute that.

    Yes, OTTB's can be wonderful. Nothing warms my heart more than hearing a story about a kid growing up in Pony Club with "all they could afford - an OTTB" and making it to the international level or to Young Riders or Rolex. I would also be excited to read of any rider who made up any horse to the international level whether it be an OTTB, a WB or a Paso Fino (you get the point).

    OTTB's can have tremendous heart and gallop. They can also:

    1. root like a mother
    2. be tense and... chomp, chomp, chomp the bit, gape at the mouth, grind teeth, toss head, be tight and stiff in their gaits, jig (there goes the walk coefficient) and my personal favorite, work their tongue over the bit and then you have a very unpleasant feel indeed.
    3. dance and fuss and be pissy about being groomed and girthed and some won't stand quietly on the trailer or tied.
    4. constantly want to increase pace so it is a half halt marathon which then can easily turn into pull arms out of rider's sockets
    5. take longer/be harder to balance before a jump
    6. have a heart of gold but their feet don't hold up
    7. Longitudinally challenging - which limits stride length making combo's and lines hard to get down without increasing SPEED which then sabotages balance.
    8. Ulcers, bone chips, osselets, and my personal heart breaker - tie-back surgery gone wrong.
    9. Their default is to run first and think later.

    Now take your typical WB

    1. Natural self carrying balance - maybe too much because you've got to kick them up to the bridle to establish a true contact.
    2. lay off the gas pedal and their natural inclination is to down shift
    3. lofty, swingy gaits and soft, loose loins and shoulders i.e. flexible both laterally and longitudinally
    4. happy to stand around and eat hay all day tied to the trailer even when the TB in the next trailer has a meltdown and makes a most disturbing commotion.
    5. Good bone and big strong feet (yes...of course their are those with soundness issues like all breeds but most I've ridden have big strong feet).
    6. Can take a joke and not hold a grudge
    7. Their default is to snooze and eat

    So...why not make the perfect combination of these two types for the ultimate event horse? That is what I got out of the most recent Eventing magazine. From Bruce's article about using a new Irish stud to the current olympic champion being a WB in registry but really having BOTH TB and WB. I think both types have some excellent attributes and when it comes down to today's format, a fancier moving, good balanced, good minded, scopey, SOUND horse who wants to go forward but not be in a rush with heart is what's needed. Most OTTB's don't fit that bill honestly. Most "pure" Wb's don't fit that bill. The horse that fits that bill is an WB/TB cross. I think Denny was saying the same thing.

    For American eventing, yes...there are lots of lower level folks and some upper level riders who ride American TB's to success. But, there is no disputing as evidenced by this latest issue in fact that the pro's are indeed looking for that WB influence which in turn makes them more competitive on the international level. What is wrong with that? Why NOT take an already self balanced horse and start from there? Why struggle and put countless hours into an OTTB to get to the starting point of a WB/TB? Why not just make life a little easier and start training a horse who has those natural attributes right off the bat? I'm all for putting time and training in but this is one "short cut" that is a no brainer. Jmho.

    J.
    Humorous post. I'd like to meet more of your typical warmbloods. Those that I have the misfortune of handling from time to time list out like:

    1.) Flip the Hell out when you turn on a pair of clippers.
    2.) Step on your foot and don't move.
    3.) If you think you're giving me a shot, think again.
    4.) Lather/Rinse/Repeat on the lack of personal-space respect.
    5.) Abuse power. (See 2, 3, 4 above.)
    6.) Dominate the NQR category.
    7.) Eat you out of house and home, then pay you back with time penalties.
    When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    It's only a no brainer if you have access to enough of these horses in the first place. We don't. If we did our Team riders wouldn't all be mounted on imports. Even when we breed more, because we have different market pressure than Europe, we can't keep enough of them in the sport. So we whine instead of looking for a more creative way to solve the puzzle. TBs are a way to solve the availability problem, but since they're not a piece of the "European Model" we're to stupid to see it.

    I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't be breeding for sport and working to impove what we breed--it's just not enough to build the foundation for a team. The last coach basically said TBs suck so don't bother if you don't have the bucks to import something. Isn't THAT working well for us now? Being more willing and having more encouragement to seek out quality TBs gives us a smarter more multi-pronged approach.
    Need further proof? Ask Will Faudree, who imported a very amazing TB.
    When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.



  20. #40
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2001
    Location
    Tennessee
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    6,437

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    ROBBY JOHNSON! How are you, and where the hell have you been!!??



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