[CDE Driver]

I don't know if this is public or not but it is one of the cases Bend Equine that I saw.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

[Marshfield]

Don't do it. Either go IV or orally with the IV solution. Or ask about getting it compounded.

[newhorsemommy]

As far as I know, banamine paste is widely available. Maybe there's a local shortage for some reason? Will your vet provide a prescription so you can order it online? SmartPak has it. It sounds like you just place the order and have your vet fax the prescription.

http://www.smartpakequine.com/banami...x?cm_vc=Search

[deltawave]

Not to quibble endlessly because I think the differences for most things are very small, but banamine paste is meant to be given orally, swallowed, and pass through the stomach/liver circulation just like a pill. Whereas the IV solution given mucosally in the mouth bypasses the gut entirely and is absorbed trans-mucosally. Onset is somewhat faster IIRC and if the gut is not working (as in very serious colic) you are still going to get an effective dose, whereas with the paste you might not be able to count on consistent or reliable absorption. To my mind there is a distinct difference there, but probably only really relevant in colic situations.

[mroades]

just FYI, a clostridial abcess in the top of the hip would be tragic, and yes, I have seen it. Horse never returned to work.

[faybe]

There wasn't any bad reaction but IIRC, I gave the injection in the top of the hip, not the neck. Maybe the injection site has something to do with it.

Location really doesn't have anything to do with it (you have just as much of a chance of dragging clostridial spores in off the skin/hair with the needle when you stick in either location), and injecting in the hip vs the neck means that you'd have worse drainage and potentially more damage to locomotor muscles if you did get a reaction. I like to stick with necks for all IM injections because of this.

[faybe]

Actually the paper that is always quoted as one of the scientific pillars supporting the discontinuation of the use of IM banamine gave a list of many other drugs that had also caused clostridial infections, many of which are given with no qualms whatsoever, which I find endlessly curious. The authors of that paper implicated sloppy handling of drugs and poor technique and not the drug banamine itself.

DW, the anecdotal reason I've always been given is that flunixin is fairly caustic relative to other things we give IM these days and creates enough focal necrosis to establish an ideal sporulation environment.

I know in cattle clostridial spores cross the GI barrier and migrate to tissues, where they lay latent until an injection or trauma creates the right environment for sporulation (in that case the sterility of your vial, needle and injection site is moot ). I'm not sure if that's been documented in horses though.

[Laurierace]

I completely agree that virtually anything injected IM can potentially cause a clostridial infection. If you don't inject banamine IM there is no chance of an infection so why not cross one potential source off the list forever?

[deltawave]

No disagreement here. Only trying to shed light on the bigger picture--that ALL IM injections carry risks and scrupulous cleanliness and handling of drugs is also something that need *never* be compromised.

[hj0519]

Location really doesn't have anything to do with it (you have just as much of a chance of dragging clostridial spores in off the skin/hair with the needle when you stick in either location), and injecting in the hip vs the neck means that you'd have worse drainage and potentially more damage to locomotor muscles if you did get a reaction. I like to stick with necks for all IM injections because of this.

I know a horse that's had it both in the neck and in the hind end. His wasn't from IM Banamine, but from a vaccination. The vets that worked on him said it was actually better that he had it in the hind end than in the neck and it drained better there. He was able to come back into full work afterwards.

There was another horse at the clinic at the same time with it (from IM Banamine) that didn't make it. IIRC, his was in the neck and wasn't caught as quickly.

[Ghazzu]

Location really doesn't have anything to do with it (you have just as much of a chance of dragging clostridial spores in off the skin/hair with the needle when you stick in either location), and injecting in the hip vs the neck means that you'd have worse drainage and potentially more damage to locomotor muscles if you did get a reaction. I like to stick with necks for all IM injections because of this.

Doesn't necessarily involve "dragging clostridial spores in".
They can be residing in the muscle already.
So you could do a surgical prep of the injection site and wind up with a problem.

[faybe]

Ghazzu, I said just that in my next post... I think the OP was conjecturing that her horse was less likely to get a reaction simply because of the location of the injection, which shouldn't matter.

[faybe]

I know a horse that's had it both in the neck and in the hind end. His wasn't from IM Banamine, but from a vaccination. The vets that worked on him said it was actually better that he had it in the hind end than in the neck and it drained better there. He was able to come back into full work afterwards.

There was another horse at the clinic at the same time with it (from IM Banamine) that didn't make it. IIRC, his was in the neck and wasn't caught as quickly.

There's a difference between a shot in the semi's and a shot "at the top of the hip"- both are "hind end" injection sites, but where the OP said she gave her shot would not drain well. See the pictures on p3: http://cp.vetlearn.com/media/publica..._23_06_577.pdf

[Ghazzu]

Ghazzu, I said just that in my next post... I think the OP was conjecturing that her horse was less likely to get a reaction simply because of the location of the injection, which shouldn't matter.

Yes, but I was replying to your earlier one, and hadn't seen your subsequent post at that point.
I think we pretty much agree.

[faybe]

Yes, but I was replying to your earlier one, and hadn't seen your subsequent post at that point.
I think we pretty much agree.