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  1. #1
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    Sep. 25, 2005
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    Default Barefoot Help - Look at pic please :) UPDATE p. 5

    .
    Last edited by Auventera Two; Mar. 29, 2007 at 10:07 AM.



  2. #2
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    Dec. 11, 2002
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    Default

    I'll bite even though it is hard to know alot with only one pic. Don't you wish we could see 3D on the pics?
    I really don't see bars that are sticking way up, so I would have to take your word for that. On the rt side of the photo you can see how the wall near the heel is curving around more than the other side. I would want to see that straighter. It's OK to use the knife to make that straighter and then kind of round off the edges with the rasp, inside and outside. From the top, I imagine you are seeing some flaring at the areas where it looks a little seperated at the bottom? Could you lower the heels? You could. But I don't think you MUST. I would lower a tiny bit behind the heel triangle so that the horse is not weight bearing on just that tiny area of heel where it is now kind of hooking around. Cutting the bars. Well again, you could. But I don't personally think they are sticking up so much to be hurting. Again, a pic, not a hoof I am looking at. The pic also appears to me that someone is paring out sole all around? It looks shiny and too smooth. Man made smooth. Is that right or just the pic? If it is the case, I would say leave that alone.
    Very interested in other opinions as well.
    I\'m not crazy. I\'m just a little unwell.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2001
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    15,232

    Default

    Is it possible for you to get front/ side and heel shots?

    It so so hard to tell what is going on from just a solar shot-there are lots of things that can make a horse sore-one is simply lack of conditioning

    and of course something can be off with the trim.

    What you 'chase' in terms of finding the problem depends alot on which method you follow-you will find one has the truth-until you find a problem then another method will have the truth and so on and so on.

    Honestly I have not found one answer to soreness-sometimes it can just be an overall 'off' to the balance-which is why a full set of photos is always good.

    The bars are up for big debate-honestly what *I* have found is it just depends-and this is where it gets frustrating.

    I have one horse that has what many would call 'overgrown' bars-they don't grow above the wall-in other words they are not poking out on their own BUT they don't look very different from what yours show FROM THIS ANGLE (in other words I may change my mind on a later photo)...

    Anyway he is completely fine on gravel, hard rocks-whatever with these bars just like they are.

    I know breakover being too far forward has been the biggest cause of discomfort in my horses (if I HAD to pick one thing)-it really seems to have more impact than bars or heel height or flares or anything else in my group. Breakover is starting to get more attention in trims, as it should. Gene's NB video does the best job explaining breakover and the ratio of the foot when viewed solarly.

    On this foot it seem the breakover may be a bit forward-or it might be the heels still need to come back.

    Pictures can be SO deceiving! And to be honest the other biggie I learned is what foot is comfy for one horse won't be for another...so sometimes there is a bit of trial and error until you find the foot that horse wants.

    I spent a lot of time chasing bars and chasing heel height and everything you can imagine...it can make you pull your hair out...BUT when you find the foot that works, TATTOO the image in your mind.

    I wouldn't start trimming away JUST yet-get a little more comfy with what you are studying...remember once you remove something you can't glue it back-it WILL grow but that can be frustrating.

    Anyway-if you can get the other photos that would be a big help.



  4. #4
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    I actually see high heels (or underrun heels) and corresponding high bars, as well as a good amount of flaring at the quarters tapering down to less, but still there, flaring at the toe. That combination is likely making the foot sore.

    4 weeks is a long time to wait
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  5. #5
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    Jun. 19, 2005
    Location
    Maine
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    Default

    Heels are too tall need to be brought back some. Toe is way too long and needs a rocker. Unless the toe is addressed the horse will quickly restore the excess heel that is removed to defend the DDFT. Breakover is the key ingredient here in getting this foot to reorganize.

    I've got links on my webpage to Gene O's site and to Dr. Bowker and Dr Claytons ongoing trim study that you should look at.
    George Spear
    CNBBT, CNBF, CLS
    www.NBhoofcare.com



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2003
    Posts
    509

    Default

    The separation in the quarters could also be a source of discomfort - on hard ground debris can push up into this and lever the wall - the heels and bars are too high but it would not be a matter of rasping this flat - these hooves have great potential - post good lateral views if you can - absent that, do not let anyone trim any off the bottom of the foot in it's front half, concentrate on the rear, quarters and back. hard to tell with the photo angle but looks like the inside heel/bar triangle is far forward of the outside
    TE



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2004
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    NY
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    Two Simple,

    I think you should try to find someone to help you, where are you located?

    But I have to disagree with the others, I don't think the feet are that bad. Of course I need to see the outside of the foot but you do have a nice wide heel, frog in the back. Yes the bars could stand to come down but I don't see anything that would cause ouchiness. What caught my eye in your post was that the horse is on Alfalfa.

    Okay the feet could stand a good mustang roll and the breakover (from toe toe tip of frog) needs to be shorter but that all has to be done over time.

    But to me diet/metabolic issues usually play more of a role in ouchiness, so I'd like to know the following:

    How old the horse is, is she at a good weight or under/over weight? What breed? Any grain? Is the ground wet a lot in your area?

    Regards,

    Kim Cassidy
    www.clickandtrim.com



  8. #8
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    irishcas, what do you think abou the heels?
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  9. #9
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    Jun. 26, 2004
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    This might seem irreverent, but how about just putting some front shoes on her so she is not sore when you ride on gravel or hard surfaces? That is what shoes were developed for over 500 years ago.



  10. #10
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    Feb. 17, 2004
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    Hey JB:

    I think that the foot does need a trim, but if the owner has no one it's best to encouarge and point out the good things first I think the heels/bars could come down for sure. I went and looked at the other link that Two Simple sent and now I can see more. It does look like someone tried to rasp the outer hoof wall to reduce the flaring tubules and the toe has a decent roll on it.

    My thing is that there is nothing there to indicate ouchiness, I've seen a lot of feet in the past few years that have taught me at some point it isn't the trim as much as it is diet, turnout, saddle fit and even the rider.

    When someone says their horse has been ouchy for a few months and they have such nice looking frogs as these (which indicate a fairly healthy Digital Cushion) I start to look elsewhere. Now Two Simple says she is on Alfalfa, and she is overweight - that is a red flag for me right there

    My suggestion is to first get the horse off the Alfalfa and get the horse to drop some weight. Of course slightly lower heels/bars would help too.

    Of course this is my 2 cents and long distance at that

    Regards,



  11. #11
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Kim, thanks, I was just curious when you said you didn't really see much of anything wrong. Or at least that's how I interpreted "they aren't that bad" But I know you better than that, which is why I asked


    TwoSimple, you may want to treat your mare as if she is IR and supplement with some MagOx/Feed Ox and see if that helps. If she is IR, that may help melt away the pounds without much change in any of the diet. In the meantime, you could, if possible, try putting a muzzle on her for several hours a day. You could modify the hole in the middle to make it a little bigger so she doesn't struggle SO much to get hay, but it should still slow her down. Just a thought
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  12. #12
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    you need shoes on your horse -- all round the back feet are are growing outwards so the pony walks on her insides but the hoof is short and has a dip -
    thus if you put shoes on would allow the foot to grow and re shape and beinfit fro that -- you ponies feet are sore as the sloe is black -- and tgr frogs red
    the actuallu out sides of hoof have rings and ridgees this is one of the sign of a lammitic pony -- hence soreness on all four ffeet as lso proven front view
    stands with front feet ata stance-- back feet -accomamdate the fronts ---

    and on hind leg feet rides inside hoof and toe-- as toes to short --

    this pony in my opnion needs shoes -- to much work can wear away the foot
    and white line-- i would actually unlees you a trian farrier try to trime themyour self- you will do more harm than good-- front feet show signs of laminit along and in side the clef of frog--

    so change your diet has to much protein -- and put road shoes on horse
    to allow the horn to regrow -- and dress accordingly by farrier

    easy ways - to check for short toes is get a ruler and fron the cleff of frog point towards the toe in striaght line -- thus will tell you how out your ponies feet are at the quarters---- its needs shoeing sorry -- and you need to change your diet ---



  13. #13
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    and i say cleff of frog cuase a ruler is an inch thick- or staright line up middle of frog -- most afrraier will do it with a rasp



  14. #14
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    its the grass to much protein if shes overweight thats a sign to -- got a piccy of her -- as a whole horse



  15. #15
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    Two Simple-I agree with irishcas. The longer I deal with my own barefoot heard the more I don't obsess on the trim and look to diet, conditioning, etc.

    Don't get me wrong-a foot needs to be balanced-but all the factors play into things.

    You have been given some good advice-I hope things sort out easily for you.

    goeslikestink-you make no sense to me whatsoever



  16. #16
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    then i give -up my horses do go bear foot in winter time but do have shoes on come spring summer and autum-- the reason i take mine off for the winter is due to the weather --i persaonally dont like riding when its ablsoutly pouring down and is wet and gales --nor snowing not the first snow thats ok but the second as it hides ice-- i do go out dont get me wrong over the winter but in indoor stuff where by its sandy --so not to bad for the horse and i do hunter trials on better days--along with riding in betwen bad weather -- but thats just me and the horse i personally use out of the 8 i have but i do teach on the ponies butnot when to wet as it turns m ground up and i have only 2 acres--

    i look after my horses feet in order to have a horse-- i have never had a problem with there feet since owning them but have brought them in with bad feet -- only one was where it needed constant management which was ted as he had lamintus - but i got him like that -- i am careful to watch and have always been careful what i feed and what they eat ie spring grass--

    if you think i dont make sense then fair enough but to me the horse in question is sore but sore on all four feet not just one--so you cant see it nor feel it --as its four -- ochy ouchy -- nope shes ouchy oucy and sore
    if you feel that then you need a better farrier to address what you feel

    her feet are short-- and her stance in the piccys tell me suspect lamnitus
    horses can and do get in winter same as summer --but also theres a lot of trimming that has been done -- in the bars of the quarters - which you said yourself if your farrier hasnt done it again hes not a wise farrier--

    but the back feet speak the most -- and any farrier will tell you well a good one- that feet are growing outwards -- and need corrective shoeing or corrective triming every 6 weeks



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
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    18,472

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    Fat, cresty neck

    Ok, this is not meant to freak you out. But please, do as JB suggests, and get this horse on MagOx as soon as you can.

    One of the horses that educated me about laminitis was a TB who we *now* know had insulin issues.. he had once been starved, which I am convinced whacks some horses systems out of shape, but that's not the point. The point is, that he was always a little ouchie. There was no "good" reason to have ever believed he was experienced low level laminitic episodes.. really. His feet never gave us the normal clues. But he would periodically develop a mildly cresty neck. Anyway. Fast forward to after he left us, he crashed and burned - thru no fault of his owner, who had not figured it out either. It was a harsh lesson for all of us and certainly a terrible one for him.

    So take the neck seriously, please.



  18. #18
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    Hmmmm, interesting, goeslikestink, I will have to respectfully disagree with most of what you have said.

    I am still having a hard time reading your posts and that might be causing part of my confusion.



  19. #19
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    The horse is sore/tender on gravel - not uncommon for a horse needing a tweak to the trim.

    I see nothing in any of the pictures on TS's link that shows the horse standing from the side in a laminitic stance - are you looking at a picture I don't see? The horse looks to be standing pretty normally from what I can see - not parked out, not weighting his hind end.

    Part of what "doesn't make sense" with your posts is the way you post - I don't know if English isn't your first language or what, but most of your posts are difficult to understand in that regard, so it's often hard to even figure out what you are talking about.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  20. #20
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    sorry for bump but just re read it -- horse also has a cresty neck most definate lamnitus -- cresty neck overweight and ridges on feet -- shes needs to come off the grass -- or mussle her -- she got tomuch pretien going in hence another reason for the stance and roll toes on hinds --she needs a better farrier -google lamnitus conditions -- and signs of showing lamnitus -- ok dokey



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