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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2002
    Location
    NJ, USA
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    2,287

    Default Last Shot - 2 yo male Kuvasz with behavioral problems needs home

    (Cross posting)
    My friends do foster for a Kuvasz rescue. They have a lot of experience & have rehabbed many troubled dogs into solid citizens & placed them in good homes. They've literally helped 100s of dogs so they know what they are doing.

    In spite of this good handling, this boy is still unpredictably biting. He was given up by a family for biting a kid. He has bitten both of the foster couple. Apparently he can be good & friendly for some time, & then out of the blue snap at someone. My male friend is closer to him, plays tug of war & takes him on walks. He thinks he can be rehabbed with more time, but my girlfriend (correctly I think - she has boarders with kids on the place) sees him as a dangerous liability. The rescue that placed him with them has irresponsibly bailed on offering any help.

    He most definitely is not a candidate for a normal pet home, but maybe someone is out there with a big farm & flock guardian dog experience that thinks they might want to try? You'd have to sign a release stating you know you are taking on a dangerous dog.

    He has an appointment to be euthed Monday night. Not necesarily the wrong thing to do, of course, but I just thought I'd post his story here in case anyone thought they might have a home for a troubled Kuvasz. Long shot, I know.

    If interested PM me & I will give you the foster dad's phone #.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2009
    Posts
    381

    Default

    Honestly, the types that are unpredictable biters are more dangerous than those that give some warning signs. IMHO, playing tug of war is not a good thing to do with a dog known to bite. I had a lovely, rare Pharoah Hound I pulled from the high-kill shelter that I worked who was going to be euth'd and I felt she could be rehabbed and adopted out. After working with her, I noticed she was VERY sneaky about biting. She would be playing and happy then snap and bite. After some time of her still be sneaky and unpredictable, I came to the conclusion that she would not be able to be trusted - she simply never gave any warning about biting at all. I took her and had her euth'd. It was most likely the reason she ended up at the shelter in the first place. Same went for a 120lb Rotti - he was super food aggressive and considering he weighed more than I did, despite being a gorgeous animal, I had to have him be euth'd as well. There were others obviously I was able to work with - but those really unpredictable ones are just so dangerous.

    Besides, with so many NICE, non aggressive/dangerous dogs that are in need of homes, why risk it with a dangerous one?? Better off euthanizing the dangerous one and finding a sweet, kind dog that is in need (they are a dime a dozen!)

    JMHO.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2006
    Posts
    2,896

    Default

    Quite frankly placing dogs like this is why there are so many anit dog laws out there. Kuvaz are not a dog for an average person to begin with, much less one with those types of issues. Euth IMHO is the best option for this particular dog. They are big, strong and fearless to begin with, one with a bad dispostion is very very dangerous.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2001
    Location
    Almost Aiken
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    2,706

    Default

    Don't place him. He's a danger. There are SO MANY sweet dogs that need homes and are suffering in shelters, in danger of euthanasia themselves. This guy's a real danger, it's best if he goes


    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5

    Default

    Sorry, but what an incompetency!
    Kuvasz is an amazing breed, with a little more attention for their education. This story is simply about the problem of dominancy and human ignorance. Extremely unfair to punish the dog because of ignorance of the host.
    Here is the proper educational guidance for a kuvasz (in hungarian language, but google translate is rather good).

    https://sites.google.com/site/kuvaszos1/

    Best regards
    Kuvasz
    hungarian kuvasz owner



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    252

    Default

    I raised bassethounds for over 13 years and the hardest thing I had to do was euthanize one of my precious females that beccame agressive after she had a terrible Anaphylaxis reaction to her normal yearly vaccination! She stopped breathing and everything and whatever she experienced during her reaction changed her personality forever! She was very beautiful ....loving ....caring but in an instant you could see the change come in her eyes and she was taking down and attacking my other bassets! No warning or nothing she could be playing & sweet then without warning she would be aggressive and out to kill! After trying clomicalm and behavioral thearpy I made the decision thatit was best to put her out of her misery! And what I mean by that is whatever tormented her! Although she was only 3 years old & very beautiful I could not knowingly place her in a new home and live with myself should she attack a child! So Gabby is now at rainbow bridge free of whatever tomented her!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7

    Default

    It's a sad, but beautiful story indeed! I understand your exemplary sense of responsibility. Regarding kuvasz we face our success of education at the age of 2-3 years. Bite is not possible if we know the basic rules of dominancy. We can clear our position of bellwether when the dog is very small and easy to control. It's not a mysterious thing. Reading the story on the kuvasz in question as I see he has been healthy and education was totally missing.
    Finally just a new news from AKC (see the category of Service…the winner is a so cute, old kuvasz boar)

    http://www.akc.org/news/ace/2012/honorees.cfm



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2003
    Posts
    3,589

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kuvasz View Post
    Sorry, but what an incompetency!
    Kuvasz is an amazing breed, with a little more attention for their education. This story is simply about the problem of dominancy and human ignorance. Extremely unfair to punish the dog because of ignorance of the host.
    Here is the proper educational guidance for a kuvasz (in hungarian language, but google translate is rather good).

    https://sites.google.com/site/kuvaszos1/

    Best regards
    Kuvasz
    hungarian kuvasz owner
    You can look at it as punishing the dog, or you can look at it as saving a small kid their face, eye, finger etc. There are so many kind, friendly dogs out there desperate for a home. I would agree with those that say give him a nice bone, a hug and let him go.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9

    Default

    No, it was the problem of missing education, not the dog himself. Learning from a dog trainer or placement to a skilled farmer they would have been acceptable solutions. Destroying a living being just before human ignorance - it's a shame.

    Just two video examples about kuvaszes and children:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtJI4-6iIAU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePsDxazWDUs (particularly from 2:30!!!)



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,998

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kuvasz View Post
    No, it was the problem of missing education, not the dog himself. Learning from a dog trainer or placement to a skilled farmer they would have been acceptable solutions. Destroying a living being just before human ignorance - it's a shame.

    Just two video examples about kuvaszes and children:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtJI4-6iIAU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePsDxazWDUs (particularly from 2:30!!!)
    Dogs with a strong breeding as livestock guard dogs (LGD) generally are problematical as pets. When a 1000 generations of selective breeding has been done there is only so much one can do with training.

    Some years back the USDA did a test of LGD breeds. The breed least likely to bite a human was the Great Pyr. The dog most likely to bite was the Anatolian. The other breeds were somewhere in the middle.

    A dog bred to protect will be aggressive towards anything that they perceive as a threat to whatever they are protecting. The level of aggressiveness may vary from breed to breed (as USDA demonstrated) but this protective instinct does not. No amount of "education" of the dog changes that. In the training of any animal we are substituting human desired behaviors for natural or instinctive ones. But there are limits to this process. There can also be undesirable side effects to the training process, itself.

    A dog with a history of three bites (that we know of) is a dangerous animal. We can debate all the day long the "blame" for the behavior but the behavior won't go away because we talk about it. The dog should be put down because it's dangerous.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kuvasz View Post
    Sorry, but what an incompetency!
    Kuvasz is an amazing breed, with a little more attention for their education. This story is simply about the problem of dominancy and human ignorance. Extremely unfair to punish the dog because of ignorance of the host.
    Here is the proper educational guidance for a kuvasz (in hungarian language, but google translate is rather good).

    https://sites.google.com/site/kuvaszos1/

    Best regards
    Kuvasz
    hungarian kuvasz owner
    So the obvious question is why don't you take the dog? The dog needs to be put down immediately.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2004
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    1,277

    Default

    yes the poster who thinks it is all the caregivers fault for not properly training the dog needs to step up and take the dog home with them....
    Fullcirclefarmsc.com


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13

    Default

    It's the most important thing for a kuvasz (a basic requirement) to be aggressive against aggressive intruders only. They are so so sweet, loving for the family (as it is on the first, introduction page of the hungarian kuvasz guidance as well: https://sites.google.com/site/kuvaszos1/).
    Kuvasz spread throughout the world (Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, US, Canada, Brasil, Argentina etc.) do you think they raise a dangerous breed?
    The kuvasz in question has no special problem, except the totally missing education. Missing education usually causes the symptoms mentioned in the story. I have kuvaszes more than 12 years, I have show winner kuvasz as well, I know what I'm talking.

    Kuvasz in work:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NDJRV_sI68

    And kuvasz with a baby from Brasil:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciRmYJZTjZA

    These are desirable behaviors for a well-mannered kuvasz.



  14. #14

    Default

    Firstly as I know the dog was euth on Monday... ((
    On the other hand I live in Hungary.
    And thirdly it's not a problem to handle a dog with the problem of dominancy. It's not an award to be dominant among dogs (and wolves as well). They haven't got personal ambitions. They want to make their pack the strongest among other packs only. Usually not the full pack, not all the members, just the bosses fight against each other. That's why they need the strongest bellwether in their own pack. So if we do not show the dog our dominancy when it's very easy (in the first 1,5 years), he must go ahead for the first position in the group.
    So the easiest way is to find a kuvasz breeder who has more kuvaszes, a pack, and they arrange the problem within minutes! Than we have to learn more about dominancy and dog training and a "mercy" killing is simply avoidable!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2002
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    2,287

    Default

    The dog in question was PTS Monday eve. RIP "Vedder" His last day was full of pets & treats and kindness, he was brought home & buried on the farm and many tears were shed.

    Agree something was done very wrong early on to make his temperament so unpredictable. OR he had an illness or genetic flaw that changed things for the worse....

    At any rate he is the first Kuvasz of many dozens that my friends were not able to rehabilitate & rehome. They can be strong agressive, protective dogs - but agree, very trainable. A good dog breed. But just like any dog, can be ruined in the wrong hands.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,998

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    Good on you for making the right decision. It's hard but sometimes necessary. Ask me, sometime, how I know.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    6 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17

    Default

    Yes, that's all!
    I'm so sad because of this bad decision! LIFE come first. I already miss this healthy kuvasz even thousands of miles away… I know them, their soul is extraordinary great!

    I'm sorry if I caused confusion!

    Best regards
    Kuvasz


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2001
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    Almost Aiken
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    2,706

    Default

    There are worse fates than a gentle and peaceful death...


    6 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    In a country where tens of thousands of animals of perfectly wonderful animals are killed in shelters DAILY, only the best temperaments should take up a slot in the acceptable homes available. It is beyond a seller's market, it is a disgusting glut of excess of wonderful. That is sad. A kind death for a troubled dog regardless of the source of those troubles is not in my opinion.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20

    Default

    “You must be the change you want to see in the world.”



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