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  1. #1
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    Sep. 30, 2005
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    Default BO charging boarders arena fee

    I board at a barn where the monthly board cost includes use of all facilities. I recently started taking lessons from a fellow boarder - I'll call her Sally. I'm taking lessons using my horse. I pay for the lessons directly to Sally. The BO is charging Sally a fee for giving lessons at her barn. But now I'm told I'll also be charged an arena use fee for taking lessons with Sally. It's a small amount but I don't feel this is fair since I'm a boarder and the use of the facilities is included. Is this a normal practice anywhere else?



  2. #2
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    Jun. 14, 2006
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    If you're paying Sally for services, then yes, I think it's rather common.

    I have boarded several places where if you brought in a trainer, the trainer paid a fee and the boarder paid a fee. (or the boarder paid all of the fees plus their lesson cost.)

    Liability, someone making money off BO's facility....makes sense to me.

    If Sally weren't taking money and you two were just riding together/coaching each other? Different story.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  3. #3
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    I am with Buddy.

    It sounds more like Sally is passing along to you the fee that the BO is charging her for making money using the BO's facility.



  4. #4
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    Dec. 3, 2002
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    Florida
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    Default

    Perhaps Sally is just passing along her fee to you. In the past when a new trainer came to a barn, he charged X for a lesson, few weeks later the fee went up to X+$10. Rumor was that the increase was due to BO charging an arena use fee to trainer who then passed it on to students. So yes, it does happen.



  5. #5
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    Feb. 14, 2012
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    Default

    Well do you get the arena to yourself when Sally is teaching you? In that case, I would say that yes, I would even be happy to pay a small arena usage fee if I were able to have the whole thing to myself.

    If the arena was often pretty busy with other teachers, trainers, riders, I would be a little bit more skeptical. I can also see having Sally pay the usage fee, but to me it just seems strange to ask the boarder to pay for the use of the facilities, then pay for the usage again. If Sally has good insurance, and the BO has good insurance... then I don't really see why you should have to pay extra. That's just my opinion, though.
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  6. #6
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    Apr. 9, 2012
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    Default

    Sounds like nickel and diming to me, given that the trainer and student are both boarders. Usually the arena fee would be for haul-ins or outside trainers.

    Unless... Is there a trainer already at the facility? That would be competition and make sense. Or is the arena closed to other boarders during your rides?
    Born under a rock and owned by beasts!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ako View Post
    Sounds like nickel and diming to me, given that the trainer and student are both boarders. Usually the arena fee would be for haul-ins or outside trainers.
    So Sally can just start teaching everyone and maybe one or two outsiders (using her own horse) and make a good living off the BO's facility and the BO deserves nothing?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Sep. 18, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridinwyoming View Post
    The BO is charging Sally a fee for giving lessons at her barn.
    This is fair. Sally is receiving income from using the arena.

    But now I'm told I'll also be charged an arena use fee for taking lessons with Sally.
    If Sally wants to pass along her arena fee to you, that's fine. But I've never heard of a barn owner charging a boarder an arena fee for taking a lesson.
    __________________________
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    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    So Sally can just start teaching everyone and maybe one or two outsiders (using her own horse) and make a good living off the BO's facility and the BO deserves nothing?
    Not outsiders. If there is no resident trainer, there is no competition and no material difference on the facility because both people are boarders.
    Obviously liability is an issue and I'm assuming both the trainer and BO have insurance.
    And, clearly, BO has a right to not allow a trainer/training. And we don't know the BO's side of this. Perhaps the lessons are disruptive, in which case it's appropriate to charge or even disallow it. We don't have all the facts.
    But in the scenario where it's not disruptive, where liability is not increased, where there is no resident trainer, yes, it is nickel and diming IMO.
    Born under a rock and owned by beasts!


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  10. #10
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    I see the issue... One person taking lessons, a friendly thing, no big deal, IMO. But if Sally does indeed start a "program" and making a living off the facilities, even if everybody boards, the yes, the BO does deserve a cut. That completely changes the landscape for the BO.
    The question, really, is where that line is. I consider it nickel and diming if it's just one or two boarders doing this, but there is nothing inherently wrong or unfair in the BO charging the fee to any and all students.
    Normally if it's a program, the trainer would hide the fee in the lesson price and that's that.
    Born under a rock and owned by beasts!



  11. #11
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    Dec. 28, 2003
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    Default

    Did the BO tell you that you are going to have to pay a fee?

    Where I am at, we can have outside coaches come in and teach they pay a fee to use the ring. anyone that hauls in pays a fee. Now if they haul in and have a lesson from the BO then they just pay the lesson fee. But we that board there don't pay a fee to take a lesson with an outside coach.

    I did go look at a place to board that had an indoor arena. The more they talked the more things I would be charged for. One was an arena use charge. There thought was haul ins had to pay a fee so the boarders should as well. I said "Well I can stay where I am at pay less board and then just haul in and use the arena." I walked away from there they had no idea what they where doing.
    Are you going to cowboy up or lie there and BLEED?



  12. #12
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    If Sally is earning income from using the BO's infrastructure, she should be paying a fee. Whether or not she is passing that onto you is between the two of you. I don't think the BO should be charging twice for the same use-of-ring.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    So Sally can just start teaching everyone and maybe one or two outsiders (using her own horse) and make a good living off the BO's facility and the BO deserves nothing?
    eh, I might have read this wrong, but Sally is already paying the BO....
    that means the BO is triple dipping, usage included in the board, getting paid by the 'trainer' and by the 'student' who both already pay board.

    Sounds like nickel and diming to me as well.

    Under those circumstances, I would expect the arena to be mine and mine alone for the duration of the lesson, no ifs or buts about it.
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    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    If Sally is earning income from using the BO's infrastructure, she should be paying a fee. Whether or not she is passing that onto you is between the two of you. I don't think the BO should be charging twice for the same use-of-ring.
    This does not make sense.
    BO is already being compensated for use-of-ring: by the boarder, in the form of a board check.
    If you don't think BO should be charging twice, then what does Sally owe money for? HO is already paying for the use of facility with her board check.

    I board at a barn where I keep my horses, and also ride and train several other people's horses. Several previously empty stalls were filled by people who sent horses to me. I also take lessons from more than one trainer at this facility, as well as clinics when they occur.

    Every single boarder pays the exact same board fee, and not a single additional fee for lessons, prorides or clinics from anyone. NONE of the trainers or clinicians pay cuts to the BO and all billing for training or teaching is done directly between trainer and horse owner. BO is not involved, other than to ask us to show her proof of our insurance and to ask us to have every rider sign her liablity waivers.

    I can go teach a lesson on my lesson horse and pay no additional fee to the BO, or I can teach a lesson to a boarder on their horse and neither I nor the boarder pay an additional fee. The facility is paid for BY THE HORSE'S BOARD.


    It is unfortunately a normal practice for BO's to do otherwise, but when they tell you it is necessary or they will go broke, they are lying. My BO is doing just fine and she has as of rough calculation roughly 200 lessons/prorides going on by various trainers every month that she doesn't charge anyone an additional penny for. Everyone will be shocked to learn her place is full to the rafters.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 27, 2002
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    Arlington, VA US
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    Default

    What does your contract stipulate? If it is in there and you signed it, well that is that.
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    Kathy & Cadet
    member CDCTA www.cdcta.com, TROT www.trot-md.org & Free State Appaloosa Horse Club freestateaphc.org



  16. #16
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    Feb. 1, 2012
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    BOTH OP and Sally pay board to the BO, as they both board horses there, which includes the use of the arena.

    If anyone pays anything, it should be Sally paying BO a portion of the lesson fee for using the arena for business, but I don't think OP should have to pay to use the ring when its use is included in board.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  17. #17
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Default

    I think the OP needs to clarify - Is the BO asking that both of you pay a fee or is Sally now passing along the feed that the BO is making her pay?



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridinwyoming View Post
    I pay for the lessons directly to Sally. The BO is charging Sally a fee for giving lessons at her barn. But now I'm told I'll also be charged an arena use fee for taking lessons with Sally.
    Its clear in the first post. BO is getting money from both, Sally is not passing the fee along to the OP.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."


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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Michigan
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    Default

    Yep, I'm not seeing at all where some posters were getting that is was Sally Trainer passing along the fee. That would be reasonable. The BO charging Sally a fee to teach in the rink is fair. Charging the OP to use the ring does not seem reasonable.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    @ meupatdoes. Huh. I understand that trainers often bring clients to barns that wouldn't be there otherwise (and thus, shouldn't pay ring fees). But just about every barn I have been in charged an "inside" or "outside" trainer something for using the rings.

    The 2X charge-- to the OP and to the Sally (boarder-cum-trainer) just.ain't.right. It would piss me off.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



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