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  1. #1
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    Default Starter Recognized or Nonrecognized???

    I have been doing schooling HT and am thinking of moving up from Starter to BN. However, I am starting to see where Starter is now recognized? If this is so, what exactly does that mean? Thanks for clarifying this!



  2. #2
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    Some recognized events have intro and starter levels. They're not recognized levels though. I think I would go BN at a couple of unrecognized before doing a recognized one, just because, IME, the questions are harder at recognized.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns




  3. #3
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    It is not recognized, but some recognized events hold levels like "starter", "baby beginner novice," "tadpole" and that ilk along side the recognized levels (BN and up).

    What it means is possibly better courses, good footing, good officials, and similar benefits to a recognized event. But those levels are not recognized by USEA or USEF. They are still "schooling" or unrecognized levels, just held along side a recognized event.



  4. #4
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    Okay, I got into Omnibus and here is what I see. I see there is a difference between Divsion and recognized Test. What is the difference then???


    USEF/USEA Recognized Division:T,N,BN
    USEF Endorsed/USEA Recognized Divisions:P
    USEA Recognized Test:Starter



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gooselover View Post
    Okay, I got into Omnibus and here is what I see. I see there is a difference between Divsion and recognized Test. What is the difference then???


    USEF/USEA Recognized Division:T,N,BN
    USEF Endorsed/USEA Recognized Divisions:P
    USEA Recognized Test:Starter
    One difference is that the Starter division test does not grant any year end points, as far as USEA year end awards are concerned...
    Inese


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  6. #6
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    Exactly what is stated above. It's just a funny way of putting it. I believe the rule book actually describes exactly what "recognized test" means...but that level is NOT recognized by the USEA or USEF. It basically means it is run in conjunction possibly following all rules (where at an unrecognized event, they may change or bend or make up different rules).


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  7. #7
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    SUBCHAPTER EV-2 RULES FOR TESTSEV122 Introduction.
    1. DEFINITION. Tests consist of one or more dressage, cross-country or jumping competitions.
    They are designed to introduce the discipline, and to prepare competitors and horses for Horse
    Trials. They provide experience for participants within an enjoyable day of competition. These
    competitions may include:
    a. Cross-Country Tests
    b. Combined Tests
    c. Starter Event Rider Tests
    d. Eventing Equitation Tests
    e. Young Event Horse Tests
    2. ORGANIZATION. Tests may be offered as separate competitions, or may be organized in
    conjunction with a Horse Trial or an Event. They usually take place on one day.
    Here is the description of "tests" in the rule book.


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  8. #8
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    And starter division tests (maiden, tadpole, etc.) neither incur USEA starter/D&M fees nor require memberships.


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  9. #9
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    Sometimes it would just be easier if people put things in plain English! Here I thought it was now recognized!@



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MandyVA View Post
    ... I think I would go BN at a couple of unrecognized before doing a recognized one, just because, IME, the questions are harder at recognized.
    It may depend on where you are, but sometimes the unrecognized ones are (unintentionally) harder becuase the course designer is less educated, and includes things that are not appropriate.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


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  11. #11
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    I used to take my green horses to unrecognized events for Below BN, BN, and oftenNovice.

    But I ran into trouble with badly designed courses, and badly run events (One time they did not even measue the courses, they just read what the prize list said, and calculated optimum time fromthat. They never bothered to check to see if the course was anywhere neatr that distance. It wasn't.).

    Now I am more likely to go to "tests" at recognized events, or unrecognized events that are run by people who also run rcognized ones.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  12. #12
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    I completely agree with Janet. I prefer starter divisions as part of a recognized HT because in most cases there is more attention to detail. Also, the EMT tends to be there. I appreciate that starter jumps are basically speed bumps, but so many people riding starter have very green horses and or are newbies themselves. The last starter division I saw had more RFs than all the recognized divisions combined!
    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
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  13. #13
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    I'm lucky to have several great people who run fantastic unrecognized events in this area (secretariat's daughter, LAZ, couple pony clubs). ZERO worries about the course. So what that leaves me with is having the biggest difference between recognized and unrecognized being... The Cost!! When I can go to a 1 day event by these folks for about $100 INCLUDING stabling... or go to a recognized event and run their starter division for sometimes more than double... it makes a HUGE difference.

    as for starter having more falls, perhaps that's more of a rider/trainer culture issue than a reflection on the event. Let's face it... the lower the jumps, the more people don't really think it takes much to event and therefore the less they do their homework and the more unprepared they truly are. Hardly a fault of the sport/course.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  14. #14
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    I will go to schooling HT first at the BN level to get my feet under me and for the experience...then I may tackle a recognized. Cost is SURE a factor - under a $100 for a schooling HT compared to well over $500 for a recognized, if not more, when you figure entry fees, stabling, trainer fees, hotel, food and gas.

    Thanks for the responses, you helped me understand what this means.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronwoodFarm View Post
    I completely agree with Janet. I prefer starter divisions as part of a recognized HT because in most cases there is more attention to detail. Also, the EMT tends to be there. I appreciate that starter jumps are basically speed bumps, but so many people riding starter have very green horses and or are newbies themselves. The last starter division I saw had more RFs than all the recognized divisions combined!
    You could say that about the intro division at the Kelly's Ford Fall HT (recognized) this year too though! I couldn't believe all the rider falls at intro.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns




  16. #16
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    I think the point of the falls at intro/starter being brought up was not that there are more at an unrecognized (the point about people at that level potentially being less prepared/more likely to fall off is valid), but that at a recognized event, the ambulance is there just in case. I know that at Waredaca and Fair Hill unrecognized horse trials, they always have an ambulance, but don't know to what extent this is universally true and it should be a consideration for people making the decision.
    OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!



  17. #17
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    Oh that makes sense Scubed. I thought the point was what Janet said, that the unrecognized events don't bother making sure the starter jumps are safe/the right distance. Either way...I hadn't factored the need for an ambulance into my preference for recognized/unrecognized, lol. I've participated in both and never had any bad experiences either way.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns




  18. #18
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    because there is no necessary oversight of the courses at an unrecognized, they could have inappropriate or unmeasured fences more easily than at a recognized event. Again, events like Fair Hill, Waredaca, Plantation, and many others do hire a TD for their unrecognized events and someone does actually walk/measure/etc all the courses. If I TD at an event where there is a starter in conjunction with recognized (which I have done at Cobblestone, eg), I walk/measure/etc that course there. So, both that aspect and the ambulance aspect could enter. The problem is that with a recognized event, you know what you are getting, whereas with an unrecognized, there can exist wide variation. I totally favor safe and reasonable unrecognized events, but do tend to stick to places where they either 1) also run recognized events, or 2) involve a lot of people who also work around recognized events, for example DVCTA at Carousel.
    OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!



  19. #19
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    How the course is as far as appropriate fences at unrecognized events is totally dependent upon the organizer. I was asked to TD a local unrecognized event eons ago. I did walk and measure everything. Found a couple things mildly out of line with the rules and was ignored by the organizer. Nothing extreme, but still not 100% within the rules. No one had a problem with those fences.

    Going to an unrecognized event is a bit of a crap shoot. You could get some yahoo out piling logs in weird places... or you could get someone meticulous in their attention to detail who's hired a course builder and a licensed TD even if their event doesn't run recognized. You jsut never know so it's always best to ask -- ask the organizer, ask people who've attended their event. I took some first timers to an event this fall that none of us had been to before... but I talked to the organizer and to the TD (who I would trust with my life when it comes to running a proper event). We were supposed to go to anotehr event in July but medical issues cancelled that one for us... i've never ridden there but know the organizer and fully trust that when it comes to a baby event, she has the best possible experience for the horses and riders in mind.

    So bottom line? YMMV... so do your homework before entering. It's YOUR responsibility.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  20. #20
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    You know, the above comments are fantastic as I had NEVER thought about these issues. I am in Oklahoma and the schooling shows have been at some of the eventing farms here in this area. The one recognized show I would like to go to is at Feathercreek, Jubilee along with Holly Hill. I have heard Greenwood is a really nice place also along with Briar Fox, but heard they have sold that facility.

    Some really good points brought up here! Luckily I have never witnessed an accident at the shows I have been to. Knock on wood!



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