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  1. #21

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    The most generous, and important help I ever got was for something many might have said was not truly needed. I had always been very independent and never asked for help from anyone, despite some brutal financial difficulties. When I was 46 years old, though, I left an abusive husband and struck out on my own. Still did not ask for help, even lived in my car for weeks. I finally got a small apartment, and then my two college-age sons moved in with me. Don't know why I didn't expect that, but the apartment was too small for the three of us. I had signed a lease, and it would cost $5,000 to get out of it and into a bigger place. I never asked anyone for help before, but i needed out of that place! My mom, living on social security, insisted on giving me the money. Changed our lives. In some ways, not real need ... but in some ways dire need.

    I was happy to be able to pay her back, even though she insisted it was a gift.

    Who is to say what is real need?


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by King's Ransom View Post
    The most generous, and important help I ever got was for something many might have said was not truly needed. I had always been very independent and never asked for help from anyone, despite some brutal financial difficulties. When I was 46 years old, though, I left an abusive husband and struck out on my own. Still did not ask for help, even lived in my car for weeks. I finally got a small apartment, and then my two college-age sons moved in with me. Don't know why I didn't expect that, but the apartment was too small for the three of us. I had signed a lease, and it would cost $5,000 to get out of it and into a bigger place. I never asked anyone for help before, but i needed out of that place! My mom, living on social security, insisted on giving me the money. Changed our lives. In some ways, not real need ... but in some ways dire need.

    I was happy to be able to pay her back, even though she insisted it was a gift.

    Who is to say what is real need?
    true need varies.

    Sometimes the true need is not material goods, but a kick in the pants
    or a kind word,
    Or simply the unasked offer of help.
    I know I was touched when a friend offered to put himself out in order to help us.


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  3. #23
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    I don't want to judge someone's situation and make a case for "true need" it is not my place. I just want to help, however that is. I have a career, house, two healthy kids, two healthy horses, two dogs and two cats, I can afford to help. I have suffered from horrible situations and bad things happen to good people. In another 6 months I may not have what I have now, things change. But for me now, I want to help and I don't want to judge.


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  4. #24
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    While the OP makes some good points, I personally think the timing of this thread is maybe not so good. Some readers may feel like they are being called scam artists, or be made to feel guilty about needing help, which can make their depression/mental state worse.

    And I would rather help when I can, and if out of those times, I get scammed once, oh well. I'd rather be out a few bucks, than not help someone that needed it if I could.


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  5. #25
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    We often love in the ways we want to be loved, rather than in the ways that are good for the individual. Sometimes we love in a way that makes us feel good (I love to give presents, for example, and my husband loves to care for people).


    This is just my opinion but people talk quite a bit about enabling and "tough love," and as great as their intentions are sometimes it's not about enabling. Sometimes, people and animals are so down that they cannot pick themselves back up on their own. People take a long time to get up and move on, and they may not be ready to accept help yet. Some rescue horses are so traumatized that even being in a positive space is scary to them. There's nothing you can do. There's no enabling there. They need time to heal on their own, and sometimes during that time they need a leg up and someone to make sure they don't go crashing backwards.

    Eventually though people do need to move on completely, and those that straggle need professional help that most of us cannot provide.

    I speak from personal experience when I say that sometimes letting someone fall on their face and learn from their mistakes, or giving tough love and refusing to "enable" bad behavior can backfire tenfold. Example: the ever-heated green horse + green rider debate. You can go ahead and ignore the situation instead of helping, telling that person that they will learn, and without your guidance it could become a total disaster. Alternatively you can sit there and tell someone what a horrible idea something is, and then instead of trusting you, they no longer feel respected by you and turn away. In the end yes, it's a stupid decision, but sometimes what a person needs is the best help possible while they learn on their own. Alienating them by using too much tough love is never good.

    I've written a book and rambled on far too much (believe me, I used to be worse! Definitely improving...) but I hope I helped out with my thoughts on that.


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  6. #26
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    It's all relative. So I won't even try to guess what is "true need" and what is scamming.

    Obviously, not having any horse or dog or cat or human food and not having any money to pay for it is something anyone can agree, I hope, is worth helping.

    And yes, we'll occasionally get taken. Sometimes we won't even know we were taken. But hey, what if we don't give to anyone and that person's animals starve? I mean there are always threads on coth where people deliberately or negligently let their horses or other animals starve. heck, our chief medical examiner in Atlanta years ago (not the current one or the one before him) let his cows in Forsyth Co. starve. (He was great in court, but he spent his money on alcohol, not cow feed.) So people who struggle to feed but don't have the money certainly, in my book, need help.

    So I won't argue what is a necessity and what is not a necessity. My horses are as spoiled as I can provide without being rich. If I were rich, those 2 would have an air-conditioned barn, but I'd still do my own grooming and stall cleaning.

    Everyone has his/her own standards of what is or is not a necessity. Give when you want to, and don't give when you don't want to. (I'm giving to someone who had a board where people definitely did not like me. I know I am NOT going to win Ms. Congeniality, LOL.)

    ETA Even my churlish and selfish wb Cloudy has compassion for other horses and cats and dogs. And people. He know who is mentally challenged and has taken care to protect them. He has let other horses eat his food. (And he's a chow hound.) Me he treats like a servant. Animals have compassion. Humans sometimes have a cold heart, or as our criminal charges say, "an abandoned and malignant heart."



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    It's a fine line between helping and hurting sometimes. Then, of course, you have those who will just take advantage...which is the true shame.
    This is EXACTLY right. There is a book titled "When Helping Hurts"...it's written more for the churchy set, I think, but the premise is this. Along the lines of the worst thing you can do is actually give the alcoholic, homeless, jobless person money...that doesn't help, but actually hurt.

    As far as the horses go...I am on a mission around my community to get horses seized as our county has facilities contracted to care for neglected large animals. It's a long story but suffice it to say it is a ridiculous, futile battle despite having local representatives involved. What sucks about the situations around here is that the people who are starving their horses WON'T ask for help and I can't drive over and start dumping bales of hay to the body grade 2 & 3 horses without violating the law myself. I wish these idiots would let us help for the horses' sakes.

    I work in a church - I see enabling ALL DAY LONG with some of the folks who come to us for assistance. And many of them are so entrenched in the culture of living off hand outs you can't get them to even consider doing anything to mitigate their circumstances (i.e. one woman inherited her father's homeplace - 2-3 acres with established gardens and flower beds; she refused to let US come and plant HER a veggie garden b/c it was too much work for her to harvest the veggies - we limit strictly what we do for her). Folk gone do what folk gone do and while sometimes I don't mind helping, I tend to play my cards close and am VERY particular what situations I help and HOW I try to help. Sometimes people just suck.


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  8. #28
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    I've made some comments as to how life is difficult for my family right now, and I received a pm offering "do you need help?"

    my answer was "not yet, thank you", as we still have food in the fridge, and hay/grain in the barn..

    why?? maybe because we're not desperate yet, I still have a pony I have for sale, and altho I'm having a hard time accepting it, a filly I should sell, but don't want to, because if I can hang on to her and get her some training, she'll be worth so much more. I have folks in my horsey circle who have offered, and I'm just now starting to accept, bits of help here and there, more in the form of physical, rather than $ type help.

    but then, I also have someone who has been telling one of my sons, "why are you helping your parents so much, you should say no". .... when he was allowed to move back in with us for the reason to help us. (he was getting out of a bad relationship, needed a place to go, and husband was just starting chemo again), so it seemed like a win/win at the time. So now, every time I ask him to do something, go get hay (that I pay for) I feel guilty and judged by this person. but husband is sick, and I can't physically DO hay.

    so, what is "true need" for my situation??? a bit of a leg up in a very tight, (supposedly) short lived time?? should I lose it all before I finally accept help, in what ever form it is offered?? lose both mine and my husband's heart horses, when in 6/8/? months he should be back @ work and we'll be on the road to recovery? right now my plan is to sacrifice my filly to try to save his, as his gelding is the first horse HE asked for, after years of never saying no to me and the one(s) I wanted--

    it's really, really hard to be the helpee when you are used to being the helper. the giver, the leg upper. so when do I finally breathe out and say "okay, I'm ready"?


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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabby.gator View Post
    I've made some comments as to how life is difficult for my family right now, and I received a pm offering "do you need help?"

    my answer was "not yet, thank you", as we still have food in the fridge, and hay/grain in the barn..

    why?? maybe because we're not desperate yet, I still have a pony I have for sale, and altho I'm having a hard time accepting it, a filly I should sell, but don't want to, because if I can hang on to her and get her some training, she'll be worth so much more. I have folks in my horsey circle who have offered, and I'm just now starting to accept, bits of help here and there, more in the form of physical, rather than $ type help.

    but then, I also have someone who has been telling one of my sons, "why are you helping your parents so much, you should say no". .... when he was allowed to move back in with us for the reason to help us. (he was getting out of a bad relationship, needed a place to go, and husband was just starting chemo again), so it seemed like a win/win at the time. So now, every time I ask him to do something, go get hay (that I pay for) I feel guilty and judged by this person. but husband is sick, and I can't physically DO hay.

    so, what is "true need" for my situation??? a bit of a leg up in a very tight, (supposedly) short lived time?? should I lose it all before I finally accept help, in what ever form it is offered?? lose both mine and my husband's heart horses, when in 6/8/? months he should be back @ work and we'll be on the road to recovery? right now my plan is to sacrifice my filly to try to save his, as his gelding is the first horse HE asked for, after years of never saying no to me and the one(s) I wanted--

    it's really, really hard to be the helpee when you are used to being the helper. the giver, the leg upper. so when do I finally breathe out and say "okay, I'm ready"?
    There are things in life that just take an extra set of hands.
    I think that is the biggest problem. We have grown away from community and family.

    There is a difference in having a sick spouse on hand and the personal limitations and setting your life up in a way you can't possibly accomplish it alone, even if the work load is not that high (my sister never moved further that 20 minutes one way, a good hour the other way from our parents. She could always count on them doing her bidding....)

    But family is supposed to help each other: Parents offer children of all ages shelter when needed, children take some of the burden off their parent's shoulders, or chip in in cases like yours.
    A few years ago, my mom was supposed to undergo hip replacement surgery and needed somebody for a few weeks to keep her household on the right track while she went into rehab. She scheduled it around a time when I could bring my own kid along. And we flew a few thousand miles to be there for her.

    She then was upset with herself for having asked me to come...she had some mystery illness that year and had to postpone surgery, and I ended up taking care of her when she had a bad fever spell...(I think they found out it was Lyme...but what a pain that was, the summer when the swine flu was everywhere)

    But I think it is easier to find people to give you money than those who are willing to roll up their shirt sleeves.



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabby.gator View Post
    I've made some comments as to how life is difficult for my family right now, and I received a pm offering "do you need help?"

    my answer was "not yet, thank you", as we still have food in the fridge, and hay/grain in the barn..

    why?? maybe because we're not desperate yet, I still have a pony I have for sale, and altho I'm having a hard time accepting it, a filly I should sell, but don't want to, because if I can hang on to her and get her some training, she'll be worth so much more. I have folks in my horsey circle who have offered, and I'm just now starting to accept, bits of help here and there, more in the form of physical, rather than $ type help.

    but then, I also have someone who has been telling one of my sons, "why are you helping your parents so much, you should say no". .... when he was allowed to move back in with us for the reason to help us. (he was getting out of a bad relationship, needed a place to go, and husband was just starting chemo again), so it seemed like a win/win at the time. So now, every time I ask him to do something, go get hay (that I pay for) I feel guilty and judged by this person. but husband is sick, and I can't physically DO hay.

    so, what is "true need" for my situation??? a bit of a leg up in a very tight, (supposedly) short lived time?? should I lose it all before I finally accept help, in what ever form it is offered?? lose both mine and my husband's heart horses, when in 6/8/? months he should be back @ work and we'll be on the road to recovery? right now my plan is to sacrifice my filly to try to save his, as his gelding is the first horse HE asked for, after years of never saying no to me and the one(s) I wanted--

    it's really, really hard to be the helpee when you are used to being the helper. the giver, the leg upper. so when do I finally breathe out and say "okay, I'm ready"?
    That's horrible, they have no right to judge you for that. Some people can be just mean...



  11. #31
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    While the OP makes some good points, I personally think the timing of this thread is maybe not so good. Some readers may feel like they are being called scam artists, or be made to feel guilty about needing help, which can make their depression/mental state worse.

    And I would rather help when I can, and if out of those times, I get scammed once, oh well. I'd rather be out a few bucks, than not help someone that needed it if I could.
    The timing of this thread was because some were asking and others preparing to establish a way to help when needed.
    I think it is appropriate to question that we also understand what we are helping, where and who.

    Years ago on another forum this one young girl wanted to buy an oh so skinny, starving horse from a trader "so he would not go to slaughter".
    The trader wanted $200 and she had less than that, already a red flag.
    Where was any other money to come to feed and care for with?

    Anyway, many sent her money, we were all innocent in those days.
    She said she had now $240 and would use the extra to buy dewormer and trimming.

    Then it came out that the trader had just bought the skinny horse in a sale, was going to get it back on it's feet and resell it.
    When those that sent her money started asking who else had sent some and tallying whoever responded, she should have received at least over $500, definitively more.

    Well, if I want to help someone buy them a horse, I do so with full disclosure, not thru stories that don't hold up of needing help.
    Some other such have happened since, here and there.
    We have had right on COTH stories that were clearly not quite what they seemed also, where the help that was intended for the people and their animals was used to keep their dysfunctional lives going.

    I think it is proper to, when making a combined effort to help others, as we are talking on COTH right now, there be some kind of checks and balances.
    We really don't want to become a hunting ground for those that have learned how to work the system to get people to feel sorry for them and send them any and all, from money to sellable goods, on some good sob story.

    Yes, some right now are needing help and yes, maybe they feel they are singled out by those that want some accountability to their stories.
    Well, if someone is on the level, doesn't has anything to hide, why not be accountable anyway?

    Many here won't help questionable rescues, any one asking for anything has to be certified to be able to post for help here.
    There are other rescues that work thru other posters.
    I don't think we should ask from individuals any more or less than we do rescues, but you may disagree, that is why I was bringing this up, to see what others think.


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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    The timing of this thread was because some were asking and others preparing to establish a way to help when needed.
    I think it is appropriate to question that we also understand what we are helping, where and who.


    I think it is proper to, when making a combined effort to help others, as we are talking on COTH right now, there be some kind of checks and balances.
    We really don't want to become a hunting ground for those that have learned how to work the system to get people to feel sorry for them and send them any and all, from money to sellable goods, on some good sob story.

    Yes, some right now are needing help and yes, maybe they feel they are singled out by those that want some accountability to their stories.
    Well, if someone is on the level, doesn't has anything to hide, why not be accountable anyway?
    .
    If you don't want to help fellow COTHers, don't. It's up to each of us as individuals to decide if we want to reach out to someone and assist them.

    Do a search on Craigslists ads here and you will find a multitude of threads from people posting ads about horses in not so good situations. What ususally happens is people start offering to pitch in to purchase the horse as well as transportation if necessary. Did the person posting the ad "need" the horse? No. Was it important for some people to see that horse in a better situation? Yes. How does one define need in that circumstance?

    I was blown away by the responses to the thread I started, and the fact is not lost on me that this thread is a direct response to it.

    The offers of help were not just about money, as the tone of this thread implies. I received PMs from people who could not help with money, but wanted to send a note of encouragment to someone who may be down. What's wrong with that? A note of encouragent can mean a lot to someone feeling alone and overwhelmed.

    People have offered to help with barn/house chores, offered meals and even offered to walk pets if need be.

    There are offers of temporary boarding, a place to sleep, a bag of cat food and bales of hay.

    I agree there should be checks and balances. My idea to lend a helping hand wasn't about asking people to send money to random people, and in a perfect world, those being helped will in turn "pay it forward" when they are back on their feet.

    Sending someone $40 so they can get gas to drive to the feed store is not enabling if it's done one time. I think most of us are smart enough to not be taken advantage of, and for the most part, most of us know COTHers in our necks of the world in real life. It's pretty easy to vet someone when you know them.

    As others have pointed out, "need" is evaluated on a case by case basis and will vary according to the circumstances.

    As defined by Websters:

    need

    noun
    1.
    a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation: There is no need for you to go there.

    2.
    a lack of something wanted or deemed necessary: to fulfill the needs of the assignment.

    3.
    urgent want, as of something requisite: He has no need of your charity.

    4.
    necessity arising from the circumstances of a situation or case: There is no need to worry.

    5.
    a situation or time of difficulty; exigency: to help a friend in need; to be a friend in need.

    ===========

    I offered to help three different long time COTH members, this week. Not ONE of them asked for help of any kind, I as did many others OFFERED to help. Two of those people were grateful just to have been asked, one accepted.

    For those of you would like to offer assistance to a COTHer in need, there is a sticky thread in the Giveaways forum. Lots of people offering to help others, and not in a financial way. No need to go there if you don't want to help!
    Last edited by jenm; Jan. 4, 2013 at 01:38 PM. Reason: finished a sentance
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  13. #33
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    If you don't want to help fellow COTHers, don't. It's up to each of us as individuals to decide if we want to reach out to someone and assist them.

    Do a search on Craigslists ads here and you will find a multitude of threads from people posting ads about horses in not so good situations. What ususally happens is people start offering to pitch in to purchase the horse as well as transportation if necessary. Did the person posting the ad "need" the horse? No. Was it important for some people to see that horse in a better situation? Yes. How does one define need in that circumstance?

    I was blown away by the responses to the thread I started, and the fact is not lost on me that this thread is a direct response to it.

    It doesn't has to be "lost on you", I stated that myself clearly.

    The offers of help were not just about money, as the tone of this thread implies. I received PMs from people who could not help with money, but wanted to send a note of encouragment to someone who may be down. What's wrong with that? A note of encouragent can mean a lot to someone feeling alone and overwhelmed.

    People have offered to help with barn/house chores, offered meals and even offered to walk pets if need be.

    There are offers of temporary boarding, a place to sleep, a bag of cat food and bales of hay.

    I agree there should be checks and balances. My idea to lend a helping hand wasn't about asking people to send money to random people, and in a perfect world, those being helped will in turn "pay it forward" when they are back on their feet.

    Sending someone $40 so they can get gas to drive to the feed store is not enabling if it's done one time. I think most of us are smart enough to not be taken advantage of, and for the most part, most of us know COTHers in our necks of the world in real life. It's pretty easy to vet someone when you know them.

    As others have pointed out, "need" is evaluated on a case by case basis and will vary according to the circumstances.

    As defined by Websters:

    need

    noun
    1.
    a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation: There is no need for you to go there.

    2.
    a lack of something wanted or deemed necessary: to fulfill the needs of the assignment.

    3.
    urgent want, as of something requisite: He has no need of your charity.

    4.
    necessity arising from the circumstances of a situation or case: There is no need to worry.

    5.
    a situation or time of difficulty; exigency: to help a friend in need; to be a friend in need.

    ===========

    I offered to help three different long time COTH members, this week. Not ONE of them asked for help of any kind, I as did many others OFFERED to help. Two of those people were grateful just to have been asked, one accepted.

    For those of you would like to offer assistance to a COTHer in need, there is a sticky thread in the Giveaways forum. Lots of people offering to help others, and not in a financial way. No need to go there if you don't want to help!
    Thank you for all that tirade, that is really a complete misunderstanding of what I am saying.
    If I say we owe those we are asking to support others that we know there is real need there, then "I don't want to help others?"

    Go read the OT day thread that started all this, that one first poster that spoke of asking the Moderators to see about making this effort a sticky was who?
    Look it up, it was I who first suggested that.

    Don't go telling me if I want to or not support others, you don't know.
    I have done so, but don't brag about it all over, mention it every chance I get, chime in with "I too will send my dribble".
    Some like to offer their support in public and that is fine.
    Others don't, or not always, but we still contribute where we consider our contribution will do good, or reflect about where it ended up being some less than real needs and try to avoid that from happening next time.

    Pintopiaffe never asked for money, she just told stories and in those how she could have/would do this or that if she just had this or that and we obliged for long time and it seems so did others in other web sites.
    We know how that one turned out.

    I will repeat, I think it is a wonderful idea to help others.
    I do think that discussing how should not be condemned and the questions that help brings dismissed as lack of motivation to help.


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  14. #34
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    It doesn't has to be "lost on you", I stated that myself clearly.
    Not in the original post, you didn't.

    Bluey, the discussion of HOW one helps is a positive thing, and if you were truly just musing in your initial post, then I'm with you. But that's not how your post reads, when you say things like...

    I think, after being taken in a few times, that is not where I want to be.
    It is not really my problem when others are the grasshopper, blissfully going on without a care thru the good times and then when winter comes, crying for help, because they didn't provide and expect now the ant to come help.
    This ant has other needs to fill than those of grasshoppers.
    I'll admit that colored my perception of what you wrote and added to my perception that what jenm said was how you felt.

    Just pointing that out. I think the people who have chimed in on the original threadhave chimed in with plenty of alternative ways of giving/helping other than just financial, so I'm struggling a little with what your real question is here. It feels disingenuous to have it even posed as a question, but rather reads as a caution or a warning, which I think is FINE, but perhaps doesn't warrant it's own thread, and posed as a "discussion" seems a bit passive aggressive.

    Perhaps you didn't mean that at all, in which case, now I don't know what your actual question is.

    Is it "at what level does someone actually need help?"

    The answer that I have to that is "when they need it, and often before they know they need it, and typically way before they ask".


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  15. #35
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    One's feelings on this might come down to whether your dominant view of COTH is that it's a source of community and friendship, or do you come here for mostly information, or even mostly the humor. No judgment, we all have different needs. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but I do appreciate that the "help exchange" will be its own area of the board, in the same way that Off-Topic day is it's own world. Go there if that is attractive and rewarding for you to read, go there when you are looking for opp'ys to donate or help, etc. The COTH community is incredibly generous and capable, when it mobilizes to assist distant people, based on information in internet posts. It's natural that the forum would become a magnet for similar posts. Not that they're fraudulent--lots and lots of people need help. But for the more information-minded COTH constituents, it's like they buying the NYTimes, but inside the NYT cover page, all they found were personal ads. (with the word horse in them, of course, to keep it HR ).
    Man, I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but that's just how I feel.


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  16. #36
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    Hmm I read the New York Times online every day. But I also read off topic on coth. And the threads with needy horses. I don't think every thread on every forum should be about need, but I also think we need t o help out people. And since I don't do FB, I help here. Having a thread for needing and giving seems a good idea.

    I don't think people should feel that they have to give anyone anything. God knows I once dated a guy (his service organization required that he help the poor) who bought meals for the homeless men we'd encounter in Atlanta and was cursed by them because they wanted his money for booze instead. (The churches downtown gave free meals out to them, as well as free cigarettes....the cigarettes I thought should not be a necessity. So the money the guys "earned" by begging was for booze.)

    OTOH, I want to thank the farrier in Ohio who told me this morning that he'd just bill me after he does a cotter's horse's hooves. He did laugh when I called him and said "you know how all you farriers call us horse women crazy?" He just wants me to send him a check for trim and if necessary, reset, AFTER he does the work next week.

    And you don't have to open a thread. I don't open many of the "dead horse" threads. Too reminiscent of those I've lost. And I get annoyed at the "what's wrong with my horse or his hooves" threads when people don't call a vet or a farrier instead of coming here. I feel like swami trying to divine an illness or injury over the internet when I read those type of "help" threads.

    I've learned a lot on coth. Not so much about vet care and farrier care, since mine here are great. But I learned about soft-ride boots from eventgroupie2, and about chia seeds from, well I forget whose vet had her get them for her horse. So as long as the board does not turn into a "give my relative something" board, I think the "saves" make the board better. After all, we all bought Always Funny and she's still alive and maybe kicking in VA.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
    Posts
    11,896

    Default Excellent post

    Bluey, we may not agree on everything but I totally agree with you on this one.
    I think it is the case with the internet that someone can take major advantage of kind souls and continue to be "Needy" because of bad living choices.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2012
    Posts
    4,448

    Default

    Where I draw the line between what's "helping" and what's "enabling" is this:

    Anyone can have Big Trouble. It may come in the form of an illness, a natural disaster, a financial setback, a troubled relationship. The trouble is temporary, usually beyond one's control, and with due diligence might be reasonably expected to resolve in, let's say, 6 to 18 months.

    During a "crisis," I've been known to board long-time clients' horses for cost only, with the understanding that as soon as the crisis passes, they're back on full board, or failing that I'll help them place their horse with a suitable new owner. In this category I'd also put people who need barn help, people who need skilled volunteer labor, people who need moral support and maybe a quietly-assisted "deal" on hay. Everyone works together to end the problem quickly, and everyone keeps their self-respect. No one feels either like a charity case or "used."

    "Enabling," however, is what you get when The Crisis never resolves--when the pity-party goes on for YEARS, the animal-hoarder gets more and more, and never changes one thing, breaks one little pattern, makes the slightest effort to be anything other than an incompetent burden. Victim-identification and "trained helplessness" are usually strong components of this. I no longer take "hard-luck stories" or boarders below, shall we say, a certain financial qualification level because of the train-wreck horror shows I've had with people like this. It's ALWAYS the cold, cruel, world, NEVER them. The best thing you can do with these types is make an anonymous phone call to Animal Control and then run like hell. If you get involved, you WILL regret it.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2012
    Location
    Moved South from North Pole
    Posts
    755

    Default

    Well, no one, horse or human, should go hungry. We draw the line there. No matter how the person got to that point, people and their animals should have food. (And we think medical care should be available to all, but then we guess Obamacare isn't applicable to horses and other animals.)

    And yes, we know one or two cothers IRL who moan all over the internet, even one who has been "suicidal" for years, and has posted that on this board. (Yes, Lady E, she's one who says it's everyone else's fault but not her fault ever.) There's a difference between wanting attention and needing help. So it's up to each person to look at each situation and make a choice to give or not give.

    Meanwhile, everyone go over to the giveaways and get one of those horses, if you have room for one more. We warmbloods board, so we cannot take in a nice ASB sports horse. But our owner used to have a 5 gaited 1/2 ASB when she was young, and she said he was great.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2008
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    267

    Default

    I hope this comes off the right way...not meant to offend. When we "give" we then lose control over the gift. For example, my husband refuses to give money to homeless people begging. He is sure that some of them will use his money for alcohol which would enable them more. I cannot disagree with him, as he is right...some of them will. Now, even if an alcoholic used his money for alcohol, he could be keeping them from having a life ending seizure (complication from sudden detox). Therefore, giving them one more day of life...one more opportunity to make a different choice. That is all this is about anyway. We really cannot judge anyone else...we have never felt their feelings or been in that exact place. We are all on different paths, different life lessons, different journeys. If you choose to give (even if you are enabling) you have to trust that it will give them time to change...that's it. If you don't feel comfortable with giving them time, then don't give. I hope this makes sense...it is just my opinion-I hope it doesn't sound too crazy
    Certified Spiritual Medium/ Animal Communicator
    www.heatherevebristol.com
    www.meliorastables.net



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