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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 25, 2012
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    3

    Default Adding oil as an alternative to high amount of grain to provide "cool" calories...?

    Hi, I am pretty new to these forums so please forgive me if this was already addressed in a previous thread, I tried searching but I couldn't find anything.

    My horse used to be a kick-to-go, calm as can be, walk right off the trailer-school 2 jumps-walk in and show type of ride. He was definitely underweight, and after I bought him we started to work on him gaining the weight and muscle that he needed. With the added calorie intake now, though, he has gotten much more energy and has become somewhat spooky even. We have tried changing his feed, he currently is on a low sugar diet now. We show in the 3' hunters, and he's a lovely boy but his energy levels have made it quite difficult to even ride him, let alone show him. He is ridden average 6 times a week.

    Now,after that mini novel, my question is does anyone have any experience with adding oil to their horses diet as a fat source to provide "cool" calories, an alternative to a high level of grain? COTH had an article earlier about this, "Fix it with Feed" ( http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...re-one-problem ) but I was just looking for others' opinions/experiences?

    Thanks!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2000
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    5,489

    Default

    You may get more responses over in horse care, however my best experience with getting a horse fat is to do the following:

    1. Power pack them - Do the 5 days of power pack, then 10 days later do a quest, 10 days after that do a quest plus. This gets rid of all stages of encysted small strongyles. Critical for horses that are underweight.

    2. Feed Healthy Glo as the fat supplement not oil. Oil goes rancid, some people will say has harmful free radicals, and is not palatable. Healthy Glo is a stabilized fat that is designed for horses.

    3. Feed 1 lb of beet pulp per feeding. There is debate as to whether or not beet pulp needs to be soaked. I wet mine but do not soak.

    4. Feed free choice hay. Literally an all you can eat buffet.

    5. Add cocosoya or cool calories if necessary. Again, fats designed for horses.

    My experience has been if you do all of the above, there is no need to over grain them. My horses eat a maximum of 2lbs of grain twice a day given the above regimen. Typically if you feed healthy glo and stay strong minerals, eventually no other grain may be required. The ADM alliance website has a contact number for feed recommendations. I have found them to be super helpful with coming up with a proper feed regimen for my horses assuming you can get ADM in your area. http://www.admani.com/Horse/Horse%20Index.htm



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2013
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Often a problem with an under weight horse is once they get some groceries they may have a bit of a personality change.

    Personally I don't do oil. I agree with Nick, beet pulp is good. I like to soak mine a few hours before feeding. With my own horses I give a lot of hay and very little grain. The grain is low starch.

    I tend to give a flake or two of hay at a time and when they have cleaned it up, I give more. It cuts down on waste and easier to clean the stall. I have found if you give a bunch of hay at once, most of it will end up getting tossed.

    Another thing I like for weight gain is rice bran. Manna Pro has a real nice rice bran product.

    Hope this helps.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2011
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    2,336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickelodian View Post
    You may get more responses over in horse care, however my best experience with getting a horse fat is to do the following:

    1. Power pack them - Do the 5 days of power pack, then 10 days later do a quest, 10 days after that do a quest plus. This gets rid of all stages of encysted small strongyles. Critical for horses that are underweight.

    2. Feed Healthy Glo as the fat supplement not oil. Oil goes rancid, some people will say has harmful free radicals, and is not palatable. Healthy Glo is a stabilized fat that is designed for horses.

    3. Feed 1 lb of beet pulp per feeding. There is debate as to whether or not beet pulp needs to be soaked. I wet mine but do not soak.

    4. Feed free choice hay. Literally an all you can eat buffet.

    5. Add cocosoya or cool calories if necessary. Again, fats designed for horses.

    My experience has been if you do all of the above, there is no need to over grain them. My horses eat a maximum of 2lbs of grain twice a day given the above regimen. Typically if you feed healthy glo and stay strong minerals, eventually no other grain may be required. The ADM alliance website has a contact number for feed recommendations. I have found them to be super helpful with coming up with a proper feed regimen for my horses assuming you can get ADM in your area. http://www.admani.com/Horse/Horse%20Index.htm
    Do ALL of this. If you can, you might also try to add rice bran for a while. When my guy was on rice bran and beet pulp, I'd soak it all in a mash then give it to him. Cocosoya is great stuff, and even available in SmartPaks if you use those. Once you get weight on and start working on muscle, a supplement like MuscleUp or More Muscle is a good idea and both work well.

    Best of luck to you and your guy! I know how the whole weight gain journey goes, have done it twice now. It's not the most enjoyable process but it is SO worth it.
    I've heard there's more to life than an FEI tent and hotel rooms, so I'm trying it.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2005
    Posts
    1,627

    Default

    Senior feed is another good option for weight gain and Smart Pak has a couple of cool calorie supplements so you can avoid the mess of oil.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2006
    Posts
    1,707

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    The spookiness gives me a red light....my OTTB is very sugar sensitive and starch intolerant....ANY change in feed or supplements sets him off and guess what...he becomes a bit spooky. I can not even feed him supplements. I tried him on body builder...and you know what? he lost weight and it made him worse.turns out body builder has a lot of sugar in it....and corn oil (which promotes inFlammation - neither of which my horse needed.) what exactly is your horse eating?


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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    16,014

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    I prefer Cool Calories to oil, it's easier to feed and most horses love it.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2012
    Location
    Somewhere down-under
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    156

    Default

    I feed oil to all of mine. Slower energy release compared to grain, every horse reacts differently to oil. Mine have never gotten hot or fizzy on it but some people say theirs do. I like to use rice bran oil. You get the benefits of rice bran but without the starch.

    I would also add fibre.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2001
    Location
    The Great White North, where we get taxed out the wazoo
    Posts
    638

    Default

    My TB stays round and shiny and has his brain intact on just beet pulp and flax seed. he gets 1 1/2 coffee cans of beet pulp pellets and a half a can of ground flax soaked together 2 times a day. he also gets lots of hay- always has a net stuffed full in his stall. he like a hay net and reduces the "Someone made poopy on my hay and now I can't eat it!" from happening.
    If he gets any kind of starch based feeds he gets stupid/spooky/snorty/look at my piaffe and passage (not good in a 3' hunter) in a hurry.
    Ear stuffies also are a big help in keeping him focussed.


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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 6, 2002
    Location
    Bucks County, PA
    Posts
    1,602

    Default

    I have had wonderful results with Cool Calories for my OTTB that needed extra weight and no hotness/spookiness whatsoever. I love the stuff, and so does my gelding.
    "And my good dreams? They all come with a velvet muzzle and four legs. All my good dreams are about horses."--In Colt Blood

    COTH Barn Rats Clique!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2012
    Posts
    1,834

    Default

    I have that horse also. He can't eat much alfalfa or becomes a spooky PITA. I put weight on him last summer by weighing his feed and adding timothy hay pellets and slowly adding alfalfa cubes until he got nutty. I found he can tolerate a pound of it every day without having it affect his energy level in a bad way.

    I bought a fish scale on eBay, but you can get them at sporting goods stores, really nice digital ones for around $25. If you can increase his feed without high calorie supps, I think you are better off.

    I would also consider reducing his workload. He might be too fit. Maybe cut out one or two of the work days and just hand walk for half an hour. He'll keep his top line but may relax a little. That worked for my horse when I got him back from four months with a dressage trainer who rode him an hour a day. He was so gorgeously muscled, but I needed an old lady ammy horse, not a competition sport horse. It's tricky but manageable.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2000
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    5,489

    Default

    Ah yes, rice bran is another good suggestion, but not readily available where I am so one I tend to leave off the list. I have found cocosoya to be GREAT, but much cheaper when bought at Tractor Supply instead of through smartpak. They also sell rice bran oil at TSC, but I like the cocosoya better.

    Those of you who do flax seed, do you grind? I tried flax seed once, but found whole seeds in the poop so figured it really couldn't be doing any good.

    I've also tried black oil sunflower seeds, but didn't get as good as a result as with cocosoya. Same with cool calories.

    I've been through the weight gain game more times than I'd like to count given the number of OTTBs I've done, but I only tried cool calories with a single horse, so perhaps that horse didn't respond as well as others might.

    Really, step 1 of powerpacking seems to be the key. No matter how recently they've been wormed, if they come into my barn looking in need of groceries, powerpacks make all the difference in the world.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2006
    Location
    Port Perry Ontario - formerly Prodomus
    Posts
    2,364

    Default

    You can also buy cocosoya oil directly from the manufacturer - much cheaper I find.



  14. #14

    Default

    Purina Amplify is the best bang for your buck calories-to-dollars. It's 30% fat compared to 23% fat in the average rice bran. I pay $45 for a 50lb bag. For my hard keeper OTTB, I feed the Amplify, a high fat/low carb grain (Poulin Fibre Max), and high quality free choice hay. I do put her on oil sometimes to help coat condition, but never corn oil as that promotes an inflammatory response because it has the wrong ratio of omega 3's and 6's. Instead, I feed canola oil.

    I've tried cool calories, didn't see much difference. BOSS and flax just come out the other end as wasted $$, unless you want to grind the flax, which I don't have the time or patience for. I tried beet pulp and my horse turned her nose up at it.

    By far the biggest contributor is the hay. High quality and lots of it!


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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2010
    Location
    california
    Posts
    4,247

    Default

    Well, for the past 4 years I have fed rice bran and rice bran oil. I have changed that as of Nov. 2012. I have a 20 year old TB and a 5 year old TB. I gave up the rice bran oil for Omega3 and an anti-inflammatory supplement from smartpak. I have seen better results. I give them a scoop of Rice Bran and 2 scoops timothy pellets along with the supplements. The smartpak anti-inflammatory supplement is TLC.

    They both get hay mainly grass hay and one flake alfalfa for the 5 year old. Both look much better than last year and both have held their weight this winter.

    This is my story, I switched them because I felt I was spending so much on the rice bran oil and just not seeing much results....I'm a slow learner.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    3,997

    Default

    OP, what are you feeding now? Oil will definitely add calories, but some horses will not eat it, especially in large amounts, and as already noted, it's somewhat messy to feed.

    Last year I had great luck getting weight back on my skinny mare (in the winter, even) with Triple Crown Senior (high in fat, beet pulp based, very, very low in sugar/NSC and not just a senior feed...can be used for all ages), alfalfa pellets, and rice bran pellets. If your BO does not mind soaking beet pulp, that is an option as well. And free choice hay. You can get a net to keep him from throwing it around and wasting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickelodian View Post
    1. Power pack them - Do the 5 days of power pack, then 10 days later do a quest, 10 days after that do a quest plus. This gets rid of all stages of encysted small strongyles. Critical for horses that are underweight.
    This is very dangerous to me. Especially the double Quest. Moxidectin (active ingredient in Quest) is stored in fat and can be easily overdosed. It's only been proven safe at 3x the recommended dose for weight, and it's not something to be played around with, most especially on a thin horse. Compare that to Ivermectin, which you can dose at 20-30x recommended and probably still not run into toxicity issues (not that I would ever do this...just what's been done in safety trials). Fenbendazole (Panacur/Power Pac) is less effective and has resistance issues in some areas of the country.

    If you think the horse has worms, do a fecal. You can have a vet do it, or there is a place online that you can order a kit from and mail it in. Tapeworms and encysted strongyles will not show up, so there is that to consider. I would personally worm with Equimax now, then do a fecal in 8ish weeks to see what's there, then Quest Plus in 2-3 months time (from now - around the time of the first thaw wherever you are) to get migrating strongyles as well as encysted.
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2010
    Location
    Westchester County, NY
    Posts
    957

    Default

    You might try looking at the Pure Feed web site. It is a forage based feed and I have fed it to school horses through Grand Prix jumpers. Their web site has quite a bit of information.
    http://STA551.com
    845-363-1875



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2001
    Location
    The Great White North, where we get taxed out the wazoo
    Posts
    638

    Default

    I buy the ground flax from the feed dealer, nothing special but my guys and my friend's horse go thru a bag usually before it starts to go off.(It starts to smell like oil paint)
    I used to gring my own but it got to be to big of a PITA.
    Another thing you can consider adding is Ration Plus for Horses. Buy it online and a bottle will do you for at least 2 months on average for about $30. That stuff has clinical evidence it works and is a small amout of liquid mixed in the feed daily 1 or 2X depending on the beast.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
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    6,712

    Default

    soak that pound of beet pulp with some oil. Start slow with 1/4 cup a day and gradually increase. My PSSM horse gets over 2 cups a day of veg oil. Easiest, cheapest calories you can feed, and if you add it to the beet pulp, your horse won't feel like he's eating greasy cheeseburgers.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec. 16, 2012
    Location
    Los Lunas, NM
    Posts
    33

    Default

    I played around a lot with what I fed my underweight OTTB. He's currently packing on the weight with 2 pounds of Strategy Healthy Edge, 4 pounds of Rice Brand Pellots (Max e Glo by Manna Pro) and Cool Calories. This has put the weight on very, very fast. I was worried it was too fast, but my vet says that he's doing fine.

    My barn won't soak feed, so beat pulp and bran mash are out for me. The Strategy Healthy Edge has beat pulp, amplify and flax seed and vitamins in it already. The rice bran just adds weight like nothing else I've found. It is expensive and can be hard to find, but is well worth it.

    We have a barn full of OTTBs that are hard to keep weight on. A number of people have had good success with the Rice Bran. A lot of people also feed Timothy Hay pellets with good results. I think if you can do wet feed Beat Pulp and Rice Bran is pretty much the gold standard.



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