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  1. #1
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    Default USEF Response to NYT article...is it time for The Humble Initiative

    Over on the right in the light green square, just came on COTH, click to view.

    Seems Mr Long feels the USEF has had it's hands tied in investigating anything in anyway beside voluntary cooperation and "that policy has to change". Thats a quote.

    Perhaps some good might come from this situation and our participation on this and the other related threads, and you bet they read them.

    As a life member of USEF, may I suggest policy changes be called Humbles Law? Or similar? Like an Amber alert?
    Last edited by findeight; Jan. 1, 2013 at 09:47 AM.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    As a life member of USEF, may I suggest policy changes be called Humbles Law? Or similar? Like an Amber alert?
    In this case, it would be an Amber Hill alert.


    52 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Oh, JER, that was almost too good.
    Whatever.


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  4. #4
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    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...-times-article

    That's the link.

    The Humble Rule would be a good one.



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    In this case, it would be an Amber Hill alert.
    OMG, I didn't think of that...

    But Humbles Rule would be appropriate. It should also give some protection to those who come forward to protest so they don't get sued for speaking up.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


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  6. #6
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    This situation has showed that USEF needs many things. A lot of people have a lot of different ideas about drugging, zero tolerance, etc. And that will take lots of discussions to decide.

    But we HAVE to have some kind of protection for those who protest anything under USEF. I can't believe that there isn't sufficient protection for those who protest.

    This is a very nasty situation, and I can only hope that the USEF leaders learn something from it.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lrp1106 View Post
    This situation has showed that USEF needs many things. A lot of people have a lot of different ideas about drugging, zero tolerance, etc. And that will take lots of discussions to decide.

    But we HAVE to have some kind of protection for those who protest anything under USEF. I can't believe that there isn't sufficient protection for those who protest.

    This is a very nasty situation, and I can only hope that the USEF leaders learn something from it.

    Forget that! I suggest somebody such as findeight along with mrhoades and others in this bb, step in with their own rule proposals. There are plenty of insanely intelligent and knowledgable people here with extensive backgrounds that surpass those of the USEF leaders in the pertinent areas.

    It is time to get off our collective asses and fix this crap now. It is time to push the USHJA/USEF etc. and to NOT accept what is given. Yes, there are very good folks there who are very busy. Now is the time for the membership to pull some of the load.

    I and others do/did this with the USEA/USEF and there have been some major changes based on fact driven rules to make the sport better.

    Reed


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    Forget that! I suggest somebody such as findeight along with mrhoades and others in this bb, step in with their own rule proposals. There are plenty of insanely intelligent and knowledgable people here with extensive backgrounds that surpass those of the USEF leaders in the pertinent areas.

    It is time to get off our collective asses and fix this crap now. It is time to push the USHJA/USEF etc. and to NOT accept what is given. Yes, there are very good folks there who are very busy. Now is the time for the membership to pull some of the load.

    I and others do/did this with the USEA/USEF and there have been some major changes based on fact driven rules to make the sport better.

    Reed
    Well said....

    How about starting with a waiver on entry blanks ... Easily added to the one already there.

    All competitors, owners, riders, trainers, and others associated with a horse competing at this event agreed to comply with the USEF's request for information regarding the horse entered here. Such requests may include but not be limited to testing, vet records, medications administered and the like. (Not well crafted but you get the idea)


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  9. #9
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    I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that medicating practices such as this are not just common, they are the norm. The majority of participants at big shows inject their horses with at least a few things. (From racing, to breed shows, to barrel racing, to hunter/jumper, to damn near anything where it is big business/big competition and there is a LOT at stake.)

    EM is just the person who got caught with a big screw up. Crucifying her is convenient, but also cowardly.

    You wanna see what's really going on? Have the USEF do an unannounced run through of every feed and tack stall on the show grounds of a BIG horse show one day. Nail down every head groom/trainer and tell them they WILL tell you exactly what each horse is getting. (Yes I'm fantasizing here, but it would require something equally dramatic....)

    That will be one HECK of an eye opener for everyone.

    You could execute EM by firing squad tomorrow, and it wouldn't change a damned thing. The 'machine' that is upper level horse showing will chug along just fine. Removing one part will not slow it down in the least.


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  10. #10
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    While I love that I am becoming famous enough on COTH to be invited to be a game changer, could you guys PLEASE spell my name correctly? It's not like its not my screen name.

    I personally think protections for protesters is a good idea, but if you really want to know whats going on, give the braiders immunity (and 5 years pay) and then all hell would break loose.
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm


    31 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    I personally think protections for protesters is a good idea, but if you really want to know whats going on, give the braiders immunity (and 5 years pay) and then all hell would break loose.
    mroades for the win!


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  12. #12
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    They would all have to expatriate I believe....maybe we could turn braiding into a trend in Europe (our braids, not those sausage things!)
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  13. #13
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    Actually...nailing EM to the wall seems to be at least shining light on just HOW bad the cokcroaches have gotten. If the USEF has pulled it's enabling head out of it's ignorant arse long enough to make public statements like admitting there was a screw up and they couldn't fix it due to their hands being tied...and that it MAY lead to policy changes...then I say a hearty thanks to the obnoxious, bombastic, self congratulating, litigation-happy EM for screwing up in SUCH a loud, grating and dumbass way. Apparently even the USEF had to respond.

    Everyone knows it's SOP for the majority of trainers/barns/top animals to be drug/injection happy and to constantly come up with new, untestable ways to cheat their way through all of their classes. it's been known for ages, by everyone including the USEF...nudge nudge wink wink.

    It's about time someone without the long-standing good ol' trainers club behind them...someone disliked enough by everyone to get thrown uder the bus....got caught in such a flagrant way. And THEN wasn't smart enough to shut up and pretend nothing happened. Kinda forced the USEF into daylight, against their will but it'll do.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    While I love that I am becoming famous enough on COTH to be invited to be a game changer, could you guys PLEASE spell my name correctly? It's not like its not my screen name.

    I personally think protections for protesters is a good idea, but if you really want to know whats going on, give the braiders immunity (and 5 years pay) and then all hell would break loose.
    My apologies, mroades.

    Reed



  15. #15
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    Just picking at you a bit Reed. Apology accepted.
    I only wish I was a big enough player to effect some change. I have seen things that make my stomach churn, all in the pursuit of a ribbon or points, but I am a believer in therapeutic medications.
    I am afraid the lynch mob may have unintended consequences, sort of like PETA is well intentioned, but letting lab animals loose on the highway for their "freedom", well you know.
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    Just picking at you a bit Reed. Apology accepted.
    I only wish I was a big enough player to effect some change. I have seen things that make my stomach churn, all in the pursuit of a ribbon or points, but I am a believer in therapeutic medications.
    I am afraid the lynch mob may have unintended consequences, sort of like PETA is well intentioned, but letting lab animals loose on the highway for their "freedom", well you know.
    But this is where I disagree with you and any person who feels they are "not big enough" to effect change.

    With the spate of horse deaths in eventing a few years ago, my trainer and I started using a radar gun and GPS watches on riders to see what the real speeds were out on cross country. What we found has resulted in a whole new way XC courses are designed internationally. What if we never tried?

    Now I am part of the Equestrian Medical Safety Association looking at all safety gear for all disciplines. It is not time intensive but it is a way I can help ensure the integrity of the sport.

    I agree with the judicious use of meds. I work in orthopaedics so I know the benefits. But there is more than just the drugs. There is the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY the we must bring into the sport. The membership must step up and enforce the expectations, force the USEF/USHJA to not turn a blind eye, and must become active participants in the sport, regardless of level.

    You don't have to change the world, just your part of it.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    Just picking at you a bit Reed. Apology accepted.
    I only wish I was a big enough player to effect some change. I have seen things that make my stomach churn, all in the pursuit of a ribbon or points, but I am a believer in therapeutic medications.
    I am afraid the lynch mob may have unintended consequences, sort of like PETA is well intentioned, but letting lab animals loose on the highway for their "freedom", well you know.
    I agree with the use of therapeutic medications. I have see the FEI zero-med rule not always be in the best interest of the horses. And at the USEF level, we are covering not just elite athletes - who should be running without any pain meds - but also 30 year old schoolmasters toting beginners around their first competitions.

    I agree with Reed: someone like you, in the thick of it now, in the know about the abuses, is in an excellent position to posit some rules and changes that would truly benefit the sport and the horses.

    To me, the way to weigh the ethics is, "Would I do this to my human child or ward?"

    I posted in the other thread that if we heard of a mom giving all four of her children injections of muscle relaxants, painkillers, and antihistamines before every big test at school "so they would do their best" we would be calling CPS.

    And yet, none of us would have any problem with giving one of those meds in response with a prescription and/or in response to a particular health issue.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


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  18. #18
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    RAyers...you said it...personal responsibility. My friend and I had an in depth discussion About this very topic yesterday. The problem I see goes beyond drugging. It has become the norm for (as an example) hunters to be loping around so dead quiet that they have to launch themselves over the jump once they get to the base. Change had to come from the judges. They have to start rewarding the more forward ride. We, as a community, have to teach (or learn) how to ride more than the 'push ride'... I get it, though...amateurs who foot the bills for the pros have to be able to ride, so they can win...And keep footing the bills. Will they stay with the trainer if they have to put more time in, in order to learn how to ride the Un drugged horse? I know these are generalizations. But until something in the sportsmanship of our sport changes, changing the drug policies won't make a difference. It never does. Until people stop buying ponies for unethical types like the person in the ny times article, nothing will change.


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  19. #19
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    It is so not that simple. The trainers that bring 40 (or more) to the show would have to change how they do things as well, because can I tell you, if you try to "change the way we judge" you do not get asked back by management. Or a steward that does more than just be there....you piss off the BNT they take their dollies and dishes and go elsewhere.
    It is just not that simple......it is now an industry and very little "sport" remains.
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    It is so not that simple. The trainers that bring 40 (or more) to the show would have to change how they do things as well, because can I tell you, if you try to "change the way we judge" you do not get asked back by management. Or a steward that does more than just be there....you piss off the BNT they take their dollies and dishes and go elsewhere.
    It is just not that simple......it is now an industry and very little "sport" remains.

    C'mon. While you bring up good pragmatic points, at some point we have to stand up for what's right. Period. We can hide behind the BS of "it's too hard, or too complicated" but like I said, it is time for the membership to change the status quo even at the risk of losing everything.

    Remember, horses are a luxury and nobody would really miss them if the equestrian sports all went away. This it is up to us to keep our house in order or just let it slide into disrepair and subsequently into complete irrelevance.


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