The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 94
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Posts
    1,700

    Default The purpose of an education

    Here's an interesting, tho not surprising, article on the "value" of a liberal-arts education and the threats it faces:

    http://news.yahoo.com/liberal-arts-c...154449347.html

    What do you think is/are the purpose(s) of a college education? Just to get a better job? How's that working out? (Being a bit sarcastic here.) Is/should there be a larger purpose for education?

    Discuss. :-)
    Last edited by jetjocky; Dec. 31, 2012 at 06:11 AM.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Posts
    1,700

    Default

    I'll go first. :-) While an education should have practical application, I think there are also cultural and social reasons to pursue higher ed. Exposure to many forms of thought, people from other cultures, etc., is valuable for shaping a young (or older) person.

    Right out of high school, I spent my first two years of undergrad at a well-regarded regional university, but hated it. At first I thought that it was because there were too many of what I regarded as "Northern Va. rich kids," but later came to understand that what I was missing was diversity. I finished my undergrad degree almost 10 years later at SUNY-Albany, which drew heavily from New York City and was very cosmopolitan. I had classes with people from all over the globe and really enjoyed that.

    I started out as a biology major, but ended up with an English degree. I ended up re-reading several texts in my SUNY classes that I had read as a high school senior in my AP English classes, but got so much more out of those texts the second time around, thanks to an additional 10 years of life experience.

    When I went back once again to pursue a doctorate, more life experience enhanced this most recent educational experience. What practical application has it had? Thanks to my multivariate stats class this term, I was able to help out at work by creating a measure of inter-rater reliability to tackle one of our most persistent issues. That and understanding how organizations work and why is useful in navigating the workplace.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2011
    Posts
    720

    Default

    Education at a higher level should be about getting you to think for yourself and not just repeat what has been told to you.

    I went to a small, Baptist, liberal arts junior college my first year to play softball. They made me think so much in Intro to Religion I stopped going to a Baptist Church. Not because I hated religion but found the idea of different viewpoints fasination. That is an example of what education should be about.

    Next I went to UGA. Hated It!!!!! Told my son when he went there he would hate it, he did also.

    Finished out my first two years with a small local college that held night classes at local high schools. Really good instructors, small classes, and I learned a lot because of the diversity of the teachers.

    Next was a couple of classes at a liberal arts college on Saturdays. Good professors but the classes were all white women in early childhood education. If you had a different thought process you lost them.

    One class at a Holiness college, big mistake. Religion was preached in my speech class and horrors if you did not agree. I of course did not agree and refused to sign the "contract" that promised I would not drink or smoke while enrolled there. I was married, had two children, and a job as a responsible adult, it was not their job to tell me how to behave.

    Finally finished my degree at another liberal arts school that provided a great education. I was encouraged to explore a variety of approaches to a subject, to make connections, and most of all to think.

    I went back there for my Masters and keep thinking about the specialist program but that is as far as I get because the summer classes will interfere with my favorite horse show, have to keep priorities straight.

    That novel is to say that education should be to prepare you for life and to give you the basics skills and knowledge to enter your field. The problem is so many are encouraged to declare a major their freshman year and they really have no idea what it is they want to study. Therefore they end up changing majors and going to school for an extended period of time to complete the degree.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2011
    Posts
    720

    Default

    My education served me very well. I taught middle school science for thirteen years before getting a dream job teaching middle school ag last year. My entire class is about expanding thinking, making connections, and new experiences.

    Had a student tell me he could not touch a lamb because he lived in the projects and they could not even have a dog or cat there. After finally getting him to touch the lamb I noticed he kept going over time after time to touch again. He is now the one that always feeds the rabbits and wants to rub their ears.

    No, he will never go to college and in fact will probably be in jail before he is 18, but at least he has had this experience which expanded his life if just by a little bit.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Posts
    1,700

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Luseride View Post
    My education served me very well. I taught middle school science for thirteen years before getting a dream job teaching middle school ag last year. My entire class is about expanding thinking, making connections, and new experiences.

    Had a student tell me he could not touch a lamb because he lived in the projects and they could not even have a dog or cat there. After finally getting him to touch the lamb I noticed he kept going over time after time to touch again. He is now the one that always feeds the rabbits and wants to rub their ears.

    No, he will never go to college and in fact will probably be in jail before he is 18, but at least he has had this experience which expanded his life if just by a little bit.
    You never know, that student may surprise you, thanks to his experience in your class. :-)


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,057

    Default

    Thanks for the link; I will add this to my collection of articles about the pros and cons of colleges. I am teaching a "career exploration" class this spring for our homeschool co-op, and one of the main elements is going to be the role of college in our "career"...and the pros/cons and costs/benefits of the different types of college education.

    I went to a liberal arts college, had a blast, did well, and will most definitely never send my kids to one. In fact, I can't even bring myself to donate to my alma mater because I just see it as a big, money-sucking waste. Tuition is over $50K at this point, and many of the programs will not steer you toward any sort of career at all.

    It's not to say that studying the "liberal arts" is bad, it's just very expensive and not necessarily useful in finding a job. Certainly it will make you think hard before taking out $200K in student loans for a BA in Philosophy, or Psychology, or Art History...etc.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug. 17, 2004
    Location
    Rixeyville, VA
    Posts
    6,359

    Default

    Okay, I am game to discuss. I graduated from a top liberal arts college in the 1970's. I loved it. The students were all smart and motivated to learn. We had faculty who cared about their students. (I stayed in touch with my undergraduate advisor until he died earlier this year.) Classes were small (usually 10 or less), you had to like working, and you were pushed to develop yourself.

    My degree was in history. I've never worked in the field, but I have an quality undergraduate degree that showed I could write well and think analytically. I've often said that business is a good bit like feudalism, so perhaps I joined the job force with a unique perspective on my career. The times were different when I graduated, but I was able to get a job, get experience and thrive.

    But I never went to college just to get a job. Working was always something I knew I would do, but I had no idea what I would do. I went to college because I loved history, loved learning and I wanted to know more. My education has never really ended since I left there. I did get an advanced degree eventually, but I find that I simply like learning and pondering ideas, old and new. I read a great deal. I like the arts. I like science and currently work in a job that is science focused.

    The point in a degree is not just to get a job. It's about self-actualization.

    Unlike the PP, I do donate to my undergraduate school. I have done so since the day I graduated. The reason is very simple -- most private colleges do not charge the full sticker price on tuition. I knew lots of kids who had all sorts of financial support when I was there and that certainly is the case today.
    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
    http://www.ironwood-farm.com


    7 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2002
    Posts
    3,652

    Default

    As a European teaching French at a State University, what boggles my mind is the cost of education in this country. I really don't know how most people can afford it. If my job didn't allow us to send our kids to my university pretty much for free (we're only paying room and board for my daughter, between my discount and her various merit scholarships) they would not go to college in the US.

    In regards to the purpose of an education...I think it should widen your horizons, broaden your experience, teach you to think for yourself and to not take something at face value. And yes, it should help you find a job, but that shouldn't be the sole purpose. To me, going to college is also very helpful to get contacts, through other students, professors, guest lecturers, etc. It's not just about learning stuff.

    I teach French. What's the use of taking a French class if you don't want to become a French teacher or interpreter, right? Well, in my classes, we discuss a whole lot of social, political, cultural issues that can be linked to other classes (IA etc) and my students are always VERY interested to see how people in the French-speaking world approach these same issues. It's very interesting to them, and they always tell me it's changed their perspective.
    Of course, I understand that it doesn't guarantee them a well-paying job. But to me that's not what "education" means.

    Also, it seems to me that the US is one of the countries in which you can still succeed even if you didn't go to college.
    Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Posts
    1,700

    Default

    I tend to agree with Ironwood's take on the purpose of an education. I like to take a broader view of education's value: that it should teach you to think (actually all education should be geared this way, but I don't think it is), to appreciate differences, and to expand one's horizons.

    There also should be some practical value, but that's not necessarily the entire point. Regularly exceeding the rate of inflation, some forms of higher education have undoubtedly begun to price themselves out of the market. When you see brand new mall-like dining facilities and other "extras" that colleges and universities have begun to consider necessities to attract students, it's no wonder that tuition has skyrocketed. Someone had to pay to build that new building.

    But that's not the case with every college. Small, independent colleges don't have state tax support to rely on, so have to charge more for tuition. Such is the case at the small university where I'm getting my doctorate. It was interesting a couple years ago when Va. had a major fiscal crisis and there were steep cuts in higher ed. My little university was immune from that, so just basically carried on as normal. So there are plusses and minuses.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    3,746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jetjocky View Post
    I tend to agree with Ironwood's take on the purpose of an education. I like to take a broader view of education's value: that it should teach you to think (actually all education should be geared this way, but I don't think it is), to appreciate differences, and to expand one's horizons.
    A broad education that has wondered from point-to-point allows them to be able to carry a some what intelligent conversation with their passengers as they are driving the cab or can be valuable when waiting tables at the bar as they can explain the menu with flair


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug. 24, 2009
    Posts
    287

    Default

    An administrator at my (private, all female, Catholic) high school once told me that the purpose of getting an education is to be an educated person. Having gone to private school my entire life - that was a new message. According to my schools, the purpose of elementary/middle was so you could get into the best high school... the purpose of high school was so you could get into the best college... and the purpose of college was to get you the best job (defined, obviously, by how much $ you made.) Hearing someone say that being an educated person was really the point of the endeavor started to change how I felt about it all.

    I still pursued an education that I feel was of a very high quality. But I stopped focusing on "what job will this get me" and started thinking of myself as a whole person instead of just a member of the work force. And, um... I decided to major in Art. I really fretted about that decision because it was totally the opposite of what I had been taught all through school. Everyone knows that art majors don't make any money, right? I did it anyway - hoping that lone voice from high school was right.

    Ten years later, I think she was. I've never had trouble getting a job - and have had several jobs that I LOVED (and would still probably be doing, if we were not a military family)... some of which even involved art/design. And one of my great joys in life (aside from riding) is making art and volunteering to teach art classes in our community.

    Because we're in the military, we are immersed in a really diverse community of service members and their spouses. I have friends who went to top tier universities/law schools and friends who would have skipped high school if it was an option. There are good people in each group. There are smart people (and not-as-smart people) in each group. There are folks with good jobs and folks with no jobs in each group. I still come back to that one little sentence - the purpose of an education is to be an educated person. You can sit in the lecture hall with everyone else (or not)... but I think it's what you do with the opportunity to have an education that matters, and "what you do" is not limited to finding a higher paying or more prestigious job.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,057

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by outside__line View Post
    Hearing someone say that being an educated person was really the point of the endeavor started to change how I felt about it all.

    I still pursued an education that I feel was of a very high quality. But I stopped focusing on "what job will this get me" and started thinking of myself as a whole person instead of just a member of the work force.
    In theory, that *is* the purpose of an "education" (to become an educated person). The real issue (to me) is the cost. Why on earth would an 18 year old consider spending the better part of a quarter of a million dollars to "be an educated person?"

    Unless you already have a boatload of money, this is a very scary prospect. Even if you took out loans (parent + student combined) for only 1/4 of the cost of that liberal arts education (pretend the rest was scholarship)....you are still talking about more than $50,000 in debt to be "educated". That's a lot of student loans you cannot discharge for any reason, if you don't end up with a job that will help you pay it back.

    This is my main objection to a "liberal arts" education - the cost. In theory, you could become an "educated person" without going to college, or at least without going into major debt... to quote a great line from Good Will Hunting :

    See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped 150 grand on a f***in' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
    Location
    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
    Posts
    11,369

    Default

    One of the things that I think has changed - a lot - for the generation going to college now compared to when I went to college in the 80s, is the worry about finding employment after graduation.

    My parents placed a very high value on education, and I grew up with the assumption that I would not only go to college, but that I would go to a top school, work hard, and get a lot out of it. And I did. I went to one of the small, private, liberal arts colleges where learning was prized for its own sake; there wasn't a pre-professional degree to be had. It was a fabulous opportunity to be able to explore all sorts of subjects with very bright people and professors who were really engaged in their fields, and the class sizes were very small so there was quite a lot of personal attention. One of my political science profs arranged for us to have lectures from a number of past US presidents; after class, we had dinner with them and could ask them one on one about their experiences (FYI, Gerald Ford is more enthusiastic about golf...) Another prof routinely had top astronomers come in to lecture in the on campus observatory at night.

    At that time, I can't remember any of my college friends being worried about finding a job. Tons of very prominent companies came to campus every year to interview seniors for jobs, and it was more a question of deciding what you wanted to do (and where you wished to live) than anything else. Was there an element of entitlement at play? Yes, I think so. There was (is) a strong alumni network that made a difference in the opportunities that were made available to us, and I think that that is still the case at a lot of the top tier private liberal arts schools. But with the economy the way it is now, that no longer guarantees the career path it once promised.

    When my SS was looking at colleges a few years ago, my DH and I steered him toward the really excellent state university that my DH had attended. SS was not all that enthusiastic at first, and really wanted to go to a small private school, feeling the state university was beneath him.

    We walked through the numbers with him and told him that he could go anywhere he liked (assuming he could get in) as long as he was willing to participate with some work-study and student loans if he chose a private school. He chose the state university - which is ranked in the top 20 public universities nationally, and the top public school in New England - and now absolutely loves it. It was quite a bit more competitive than he'd imagined; lots of kids who might have chosen private schools in the past apparently did the economic analysis that we did and chose $20K per year compared to $50-60K, so it's gotten a lot tougher to get in, and he's in the honors college, which was more difficult still. The atmosphere is every bit as rigorous as a top private school.

    He does take some courses that would fit in perfectly with a liberal arts education. He is also taking courses - in chemical engineering - that are definitely more pre-professional in nature. In my opinion, he has the best of both worlds, as the school is big enough (and financially able) to have attracted wonderful teaching talent as well as the best physical facilities available.

    I would like to think that there are still opportunities to pursue learning for its own sake, and that a college education can be about more than *just* finding a good job after graduation. There are so few other times in life when you have those kinds of resources at your fingertips, along with the means to pursue that kind of study. But I also think that it's smart to acquire the tools that will make you an attractive prospect to employers later on, and I think it is possible to do both.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    10,895

    Default

    I have quite a few thoughts on this.

    First of all, the very experience of GOING TO college is a good one for young adults. It's a good transition from Mom and Dad's house to "real life". You learn how to live with others, how to get your butt where you need to be, how to deal with your professors rather than Mom and Dad dealing with your teachers, etc.

    Next, I think that the general course study is great for finding new things of interest that you don't get out of core competency programs in say, highschool.

    Finally, many jobs now require either some sort of technical school or they require a bachelors. Just to get your foot in the door, regardless of your major. So I think it's a good thing to get.

    HOWEVER, I went to a small private college with the plan to go to medical school. The cost was astronomical. Yes, I got a good education but I'm going to be paying for it until I die. The cost and the debt that our young people are taking on is just too much. And it makes it hard once you get out of school and into the real world. Those payments can be killer. I don't think it's even ethical to be turning young people out into the world with that much debt.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Posts
    1,700

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by outside__line View Post
    An administrator at my (private, all female, Catholic) high school once told me that the purpose of getting an education is to be an educated person. Having gone to private school my entire life - that was a new message. According to my schools, the purpose of elementary/middle was so you could get into the best high school... the purpose of high school was so you could get into the best college... and the purpose of college was to get you the best job (defined, obviously, by how much $ you made.) Hearing someone say that being an educated person was really the point of the endeavor started to change how I felt about it all.

    I still pursued an education that I feel was of a very high quality. But I stopped focusing on "what job will this get me" and started thinking of myself as a whole person instead of just a member of the work force. And, um... I decided to major in Art. I really fretted about that decision because it was totally the opposite of what I had been taught all through school. Everyone knows that art majors don't make any money, right? I did it anyway - hoping that lone voice from high school was right.

    Ten years later, I think she was. I've never had trouble getting a job - and have had several jobs that I LOVED (and would still probably be doing, if we were not a military family)... some of which even involved art/design. And one of my great joys in life (aside from riding) is making art and volunteering to teach art classes in our community.

    Because we're in the military, we are immersed in a really diverse community of service members and their spouses. I have friends who went to top tier universities/law schools and friends who would have skipped high school if it was an option. There are good people in each group. There are smart people (and not-as-smart people) in each group. There are folks with good jobs and folks with no jobs in each group. I still come back to that one little sentence - the purpose of an education is to be an educated person. You can sit in the lecture hall with everyone else (or not)... but I think it's what you do with the opportunity to have an education that matters, and "what you do" is not limited to finding a higher paying or more prestigious job.
    Well put. :-)



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 21, 1999
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    12,014

    Default

    You may have to have some kind of technical schooling these days but I still believe that the best reason to get a formal education is to learn how to learn. Because, hopefully, you will be learning for the rest of your life and those skills will be invaluable. Technical knowledge becomes obsolete, your ability to find and grasp new concepts doesn't.
    Originally Posted by Alagirl
    We just love to shame poor people...when in reality, we are all just peasants.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    14,503

    Default

    I worry about the dissing of a broad, liberal arts education by those who haven't tasted it. How do you know what you are missing?

    It's true that the cost of that has put it out of reach of most people. That's scary, given the fact that "most people" are the voting, mortgage-signing public who have never been taught the art of "close reading" of a text, or jack diddly about political science, economics, philosophy or other cultures, or the history or our own.

    In short, folks haven't been taught to think outside the box, or even the value of thinking outside of that. And if you non-Ivy League types think that's cool, then you have been fed a line by a small elite that still does to education, networking and business using the old-fashioned and very expensive form of college. Don't buy the hype. It doesn't serve you well.

    Liberal arts education-- the typical seminar when you go mano-a-mano with your prof and classmates, and that well-schooled person reads your papers carefully is expensive. But colleges have made the mistake of adding on additional bells and whistles-- great dorms, great food, great gyms and such. What happened to the way my parents went to school and taught me to roll? In college and in your 20s, you were suppose to live in crappy housing, not care about how many choices you had at the dining hall and the rest. As far as I can tell, this was the model all the way back to the 18th century, here in the US.

    We have shot ourselves in the foot by not valuing liberal arts schools and making them so expensive. But the cost of the professoriate's labor isn't the largest one. Besides those elegant gyms and such, higher education (really boards of trustees who are in the corporate world) have OK'd huge salaries for administrators. Again, this was not the plan from the 18th century to the end of the 20th century or so.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Posts
    1,700

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I worry about the dissing of a broad, liberal arts education by those who haven't tasted it. How do you know what you are missing?

    It's true that the cost of that has put it out of reach of most people. That's scary, given the fact that "most people" are the voting, mortgage-signing public who have never been taught the art of "close reading" of a text, or jack diddly about political science, economics, philosophy or other cultures, or the history or our own.

    In short, folks haven't been taught to think outside the box, or even the value of thinking outside of that. And if you non-Ivy League types think that's cool, then you have been fed a line by a small elite that still does to education, networking and business using the old-fashioned and very expensive form of college. Don't buy the hype. It doesn't serve you well.

    Liberal arts education-- the typical seminar when you go mano-a-mano with your prof and classmates, and that well-schooled person reads your papers carefully is expensive. But colleges have made the mistake of adding on additional bells and whistles-- great dorms, great food, great gyms and such. What happened to the way my parents went to school and taught me to roll? In college and in your 20s, you were suppose to live in crappy housing, not care about how many choices you had at the dining hall and the rest. As far as I can tell, this was the model all the way back to the 18th century, here in the US.

    We have shot ourselves in the foot by not valuing liberal arts schools and making them so expensive. But the cost of the professoriate's labor isn't the largest one. Besides those elegant gyms and such, higher education (really boards of trustees who are in the corporate world) have OK'd huge salaries for administrators. Again, this was not the plan from the 18th century to the end of the 20th century or so.
    Amen, especially to your point about the value of close reading of a text. Think of the pickles we could avoid as a people as well as personally if we were better at that skill.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Posts
    1,700

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I worry about the dissing of a broad, liberal arts education by those who haven't tasted it. How do you know what you are missing?

    It's true that the cost of that has put it out of reach of most people. That's scary, given the fact that "most people" are the voting, mortgage-signing public who have never been taught the art of "close reading" of a text, or jack diddly about political science, economics, philosophy or other cultures, or the history or our own.

    In short, folks haven't been taught to think outside the box, or even the value of thinking outside of that. And if you non-Ivy League types think that's cool, then you have been fed a line by a small elite that still does to education, networking and business using the old-fashioned and very expensive form of college. Don't buy the hype. It doesn't serve you well.

    Liberal arts education-- the typical seminar when you go mano-a-mano with your prof and classmates, and that well-schooled person reads your papers carefully is expensive. But colleges have made the mistake of adding on additional bells and whistles-- great dorms, great food, great gyms and such. What happened to the way my parents went to school and taught me to roll? In college and in your 20s, you were suppose to live in crappy housing, not care about how many choices you had at the dining hall and the rest. As far as I can tell, this was the model all the way back to the 18th century, here in the US.

    We have shot ourselves in the foot by not valuing liberal arts schools and making them so expensive. But the cost of the professoriate's labor isn't the largest one. Besides those elegant gyms and such, higher education (really boards of trustees who are in the corporate world) have OK'd huge salaries for administrators. Again, this was not the plan from the 18th century to the end of the 20th century or so.
    Amen, especially to your point about the value of close reading of a text. Think of the pickles we could avoid as a people as well as personally if we were better at that skill.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2001
    Location
    Center of the Universe
    Posts
    6,901

    Default

    I think our country would be much improved if we provided more practical educational paths towards jobs- many people would be better-served by doing a two-year degree followed by an apprenticeship type education in some kind of trade they can make money at vs. doing the traditional 4-year college degree. Everyone needs a job, and if after you complete your education you have no jobs skills, your education has been incomplete.

    Getting a liberal-arts education in order to "improve" yourself is an expensive luxury that most cannot afford to provide for their kids or themselves; if you can afford it, great, otherwise, skip it. Certainly NO ONE should go into debt to get a liberal-arts education.


    6 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: Oct. 31, 2012, 12:16 PM
  2. All-purpose saddle = no-purpose?
    By Pocket Pony in forum Eventing
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: Feb. 27, 2011, 10:00 PM
  3. Conformation education
    By vineyridge in forum Eventing
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Oct. 10, 2010, 01:26 AM
  4. I need auction education please
    By MunchkinsMom in forum Off Course
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: Feb. 8, 2010, 08:07 AM
  5. Stubben Scandica - all purpose or no purpose?
    By rugbygirl in forum Dressage
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: Dec. 8, 2008, 07:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness