The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 100
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Posts
    1,700

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    What right do they have to other people's money?
    It's called "the public good." Personally I'd much rather have help available to folks who are working hard to better themselves than not. I finished my bachelor's thanks to help from the taxpayers of New York State (of which I was one) and would gladly extend that help to others similarly situated. We all may find ourselves in need of a helping hand from time to time. That doesn't mean that you live off the government, but I do think it benefits society at large to invest in the education of its citizens.


    20 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,038

    Default

    I don't remember where I read it, so can't reference it, but read that the largest cause of poverty was divorce.
    And yes, education is needed, but I don't think it's necessarily academic education. Rather education about the choices we make, about our self worth, about choosing what's uplifting etc.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May. 26, 2011
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    I think one thing the article does point out is how ineeficient the poverty programs have become. Metropolitan Memphis has a population of 1,316,100 according to the 2011 census. Also, according to the census that the poverty rate in Memphis Metro is a little under 20%.

    So that means that each person is getting $19,000. You would think that would be enough.

    My best guess is of that $5B not much is actually making it to the people that need it and a lot is being lost in the bureaucracy.

    I think that like spending in education it is not that we do not spend enough helping people in poverty but rather that it is badly spent.
    "I couldn't find my keys, so I put her in the trunk"


    6 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2002
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    You are a fool then. We have spent untold billions since Lyndon Johnson's great idea and all we have created is a permanent UNCIVILZED underclass of welfare leeches.

    I have earned the right to be a self righteous scrooge when I see people in "poverty" living better than those who produce.

    Mitt was wrong about the 47%. That number is quite a bit higher.

    It will be a fun day when the EBT cards get denied at the register because there is no more "money" to pay for them. And make no mistake, that day is coming.
    LOL you are a parody of a conservative. People like you are exactly why Mitt lost.

    You will probably never understand why either - and it's not because the other people who you hate so much are lazy. I am an atheist, but you're one person who I think needs to go read a Bible and read only the parts in red - you know, the words supposedly spoken by Jesus. You wouldn't go far wrong in learning how to be a decent human being in this society or any other by following those guidelines. And you are in dire need of learning to be a better human rather than spending your time feeling so smug that in your small, blinkered existence you did everything right and everyone else who can't manage to do the same is wrong and undeserving of help.


    25 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2002
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    The only cure for poverty is to work out of it, even if it takes ten generations.

    Government benefits serve ONLY to legitimize poverty. Just how many have ever lifted themselves out of poverty based on .gov assistance?

    I sure as hell would like to know.
    All those women who stayed home and raised their kids sure were stupid and weak and deserve their sudden plunge into poverty when their husbands file for divorce, right? They don't deserve our empathy or assistance at all.

    Those kids raised in rural areas (the kind with trailers and junk cars as far as the eye can see, not farms which could provide jobs) with literally nothing but what their parents provide for them sure are lazy because they don't walk the 15 miles to the nearest job they can get.

    That kid raised by a crack addicted mother who has to dodge gunfire on the way to school is just a worthless lazy idiot if he can't pay his own way through college.

    Those millions who fit the above descriptions sure are leeches on society who deserve no help because they should be able to help themselves, right?


    21 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    4,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bauhaus View Post
    and it's not because the other people who you hate so much are lazy. I am an atheist, but you're one person who I think needs to go read a Bible and read only the parts in red - you know, the words supposedly spoken by Jesus. .


    Since you are an atheist, rather than gleaming passages you actually might need to backup a few chapters to Ruth... Ruth 2:1-23

    it was the responsibility of the land owners to leave grain in the fields for the poor to harvest for their own needs....sort of work for food program... it wasn't the land owners direct responsibility to give the grain to the poor but to provide access to what was left and commanded by law to have been left (the corners of the fields)

    Later the rich were encouraged to share their wealth with the poor rather than with their own kind


    6 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2002
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clanter View Post
    Since you are an atheist, rather than gleaming passages you actually might need to backup a few chapters to Ruth... Ruth 2:1-23

    it was the responsibility of the land owners to leave grain in the fields for the poor to harvest for their own needs....sort of work for food program... it wasn't the land owners direct responsibility to give the grain to the poor but to provide access to what was left and commanded by law to have been left (the corners of the fields)

    Later the rich were encouraged to share their wealth with the poor rather than with their own kind
    Exactly - so many Christians don't read their own text and believe they have no responsibility to help the poor. It is immoral to assume the poor are lazy and therefore they don't deserve any help at all. The wealthy in America (the ones who finance the GOP anyway) do not want to leave ANYTHING in their fields. They want it all for themselves, and think it makes them better people and the poor deserve to starve because they were too lazy to pick the crops that don't even exist for them to pick - to extend that metaphor.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bauhaus View Post
    LOL you are a parody of a conservative. People like you are exactly why Mitt lost.

    You will probably never understand why either - and it's not because the other people who you hate so much are lazy. I am an atheist, but you're one person who I think needs to go read a Bible and read only the parts in red - you know, the words supposedly spoken by Jesus. You wouldn't go far wrong in learning how to be a decent human being in this society or any other by following those guidelines. And you are in dire need of learning to be a better human rather than spending your time feeling so smug that in your small, blinkered existence you did everything right and everyone else who can't manage to do the same is wrong and undeserving of help.
    You're the last person in the world who has anything to teach me. Of that I am sure.

    Like I said, the EBTs are going to run out of money. We will have fun when that time comes.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    The only cure for poverty is to work out of it, even if it takes ten generations.

    Government benefits serve ONLY to legitimize poverty. Just how many have ever lifted themselves out of poverty based on .gov assistance?

    I sure as hell would like to know.
    Uh, J.K. Rowling, for one. Who is now nearing billionaire status (or is already there) and HAPPILY and PUBLICLY dumps hundreds of thousands of dollars back into the government programs that helped her out.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bauhaus View Post
    It is immoral to assume the poor are lazy and therefore they don't deserve any help at all.
    A) The evidence is right before everyone's eyes that the majority are lazy and love to live in a culture of dependency. Only idiots fail to see this. Or those filled with white guilt.

    B) Even more immoral than not helping the poor is stealing from others to do so.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2002
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    You're the last person in the world who has anything to teach me. Of that I am sure.

    Like I said, the EBTs are going to run out of money. We will have fun when that time comes.
    I'm sure that's true because I don't think you're capable of learning anything.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoForAGallop View Post
    Uh, J.K. Rowling, for one. Who is now nearing billionaire status (or is already there) and HAPPILY and PUBLICLY dumps hundreds of thousands of dollars back into the government programs that helped her out.
    An example of one justifies continued waste of billions of dollars on people who are now multigenerational welfare dependents.

    What's the definition of insanity again?


    7 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2001
    Location
    Center of the Universe
    Posts
    6,901

    Default

    Poverty is most often a self inflicted condition.
    um, actually, most of the people who are "in poverty" and receiving government benefits are poor only temporarily- a few months, I think the stat I saw was 18 months was the mean time people were on assistance. And most people who get flung into states of poverty seem to do so for reasons mostly beyond their control- laid off, divorce, disability, illness.
    After a few months of struggling, most manage to re-gain their footing and move off government assistance. If they didn't have the assistance, they probably would have never been able to survive their temporary downturn.
    Most of us are only a few paychecks away from needing help. Even if you "save money", what do you do if you get laid off, use up your savings, find another job, and then get laid off again before you manage to re-build your savings? or you fall off your horse and are permanently disabled and can't work anymore? what do you do? Bet you'll be glad we have assistance then.

    Yes, there is a small underclass of people who live permanently on handouts, but it's not the majority of poor people. And some people seem to set themselves up for poverty- dropping out of school, and stopping working to raise kids are two major life mistakes everyone should avoid doing.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2001
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    6,822

    Default

    bauhaus, I think I love you.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul. 15, 2003
    Posts
    2,608

    Default

    Did I ever say anything about supporting people unwilling to work? Ever?

    I say Scrooge because through much of this thread, I hear ghostly echos of, "Are there no poorhouses? Are there no prisons?"

    The reality is, as in most circumstances, the truth lies in the middle.


    I am as outraged about cheating and laziness as I am about misspending and overspending of funds. There are days I want to go around with a stick and start swinging at all the collective nincompoops. The reality is, the gamers of the system are the ones you see and notice. Those people have no conscience and are as much thieves as the reprobate that plunders homes. I imagine none of us would deny a family who has medically fragile children, the elderly, the handicapped adults. For the most part, though, you don't see those people - but they are there, quietly living their lives.

    I did not explain why the family was on assistance - it's a sad circumstance that was no one's fault. They climbed out of it through education and are presumably doing quite well for themselves. Without education, they would have made it - barely - but would have essentially been non-contributors. The statistics on wages and employment for people with only a high school diploma are depressing, to say the least.

    It is to our societal benefit that families do not live in the street. Educated people, as a whole, do not form gangs and land in jail. Properly educated people strive to better their circumstances, question the status quo, to think about current events and vote their minds.
    Don't tell me about what you can't do. That's boring. Show me what you can do. - Mom


    12 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2000
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    10,134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    um, actually, most of the people who are "in poverty" and receiving government benefits are poor only temporarily- a few months, I think the stat I saw was 18 months was the mean time people were on assistance. And most people who get flung into states of poverty seem to do so for reasons mostly beyond their control- laid off, divorce, disability, illness.
    After a few months of struggling, most manage to re-gain their footing and move off government assistance. If they didn't have the assistance, they probably would have never been able to survive their temporary downturn.
    Most of us are only a few paychecks away from needing help. Even if you "save money", what do you do if you get laid off, use up your savings, find another job, and then get laid off again before you manage to re-build your savings? or you fall off your horse and are permanently disabled and can't work anymore? what do you do? Bet you'll be glad we have assistance then.

    Yes, there is a small underclass of people who live permanently on handouts, but it's not the majority of poor people. And some people seem to set themselves up for poverty- dropping out of school, and stopping working to raise kids are two major life mistakes everyone should avoid doing.
    We might be comparing two different things. When you say 18 months on govt assistance what assistance are you talking about, unemployment?? Absolutely illness, job loss and other life changes contribute to going on public assistance. The original thread was about poverty which goes on for years and I think you talking about short term issues. A gal I worked for was let go from her 6 figure job a few years back. She did the unemployment game until the end of her benefit period. The family was never in poverty, at all, but she would be on govt statistic list.

    I r.e.a.l.l.y. prefer to not toss out all my immediate and extended family issues but I have two family members who have made a world for themselves which has included full time govt assistance for over 2 years. One has a HS degree, is 21 and the second baby is on the way. Neither she nor her recently married too husband work. The second has a college degree, was married for 18 years. Likewise, I have another family member who lived in complete poverty in a shack in NC until his parents gave him and two other siblings up to an orphanage when he was 9. They kept the other two siblings. That's an 18 wheeler load of "feel like crap" for a 9 year old to absorb. He graduated from HS and college and has had a 24 year career in law enforcement and is the nicest, kindest, most decent person you could ever hope to spend time with. He amazes and inspires me.

    Most folks agree that a safety net is a good thing. It's the abusers we want off the list.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    16,671

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    You are a fool then. We have spent untold billions since Lyndon Johnson's great idea and all we have created is a permanent UNCIVILZED underclass of welfare leeches.

    I have earned the right to be a self righteous scrooge when I see people in "poverty" living better than those who produce.

    Mitt was wrong about the 47%. That number is quite a bit higher.

    It will be a fun day when the EBT cards get denied at the register because there is no more "money" to pay for them. And make no mistake, that day is coming.
    May karma bite you in the a$$.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    18 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Oct. 7, 2006
    Location
    on and off the bit
    Posts
    3,888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emryss View Post
    What a self-righteous Scrooge.

    Education is the road out of poverty. We need an educated society to be a civilized society, and I am very happy to pay my fair share to ensure that.
    Yes, and what about all the people who inherited their material wealth? What right do they have to other people's money (Mom's and Dad's, for example)? What right do some people have to tax loopholes? What right do some people have to material wealth acquired by the hard work of others?

    Apparently I'm not the only one who hit the SEND button too soon. And actually I didn't; I just decided to write more.
    Founder of the People Who Prefer COTH Over FB Clique
    People Who Hate to Rush to Kill Wildlife Clique!
    "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique


    6 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wellspotted View Post
    Yes, and what about all the people who inherited their material wealth? What right do they have to other people's money (Mom's and Dad's, for example)?
    They have every right to it since it was private property that was passed down to them. You do understand the concept of private property, do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wellspotted View Post
    What right do some people have to tax loopholes?
    Every right to them, so long as they exist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wellspotted View Post
    What right do some people have to material wealth acquired by the hard work of others?
    Karl called, he wanted to know what you did with his copy of Das Kapital.


    I can't wait for all this to unravel. What fun to be had.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    May karma bite you in the a$$.
    F karma. I have a nice network to fall back on and it doesn't include government assistance.


    3 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. Horses and apparent vow of poverty :)
    By lilitiger2 in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: May. 27, 2012, 09:40 PM
  2. Statistic?
    By maggie32 in forum Eventing
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sep. 29, 2011, 12:22 PM
  3. Horses: Vow of Poverty or Stupidity?
    By elizuhowell in forum Off Course
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Feb. 22, 2010, 08:01 PM
  4. NC Peeps - Horrible Rain Statistic
    By EqTrainer in forum Off Course
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: Dec. 19, 2009, 02:52 PM
  5. Replies: 20
    Last Post: Nov. 25, 2009, 03:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •