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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    We moved from CO, and I have lived in other states and have not come across this attitude/issue to this level before, either.

    This company is world-wide including many plants in many other states, most of which do not have any of these issues finding help. It really is this area and the environment here. They have sent in plenty of people from HQ to figure out how to solve this; so far the solution is just keep hiring and running though them, hoping one or two here and there will stay.

    They have tried working with local schools, which is difficult, as it is shift work, and the local school system (read up on Memphis and the county schools if you want an interesting eye-opener) is pushing a "Every Child College Ready" type program, and is not interested in the helping kids with the "trades".

    Tried local programs with community leaders to help poverty-stricken teens; they have only a few that made it through that program and remained.
    A couple of those are now family friends, and their insights are very disheartening indeed; it is very much an attitude in many local areas to "get it over on the man", and a source of pride of not having to "slave" at a real job. Peer pressure is an issue; not working is "cool", and actually working means you get robbed and at minimum constantly hit up for $$ since you "sold out" and they know you have more than them.

    Tried with "welfare to work" type programs, and that was an unbelievable mess; lots of folks expecting to work a couple hours a couple times a week, calling out on their second day, using no transportation as an excuse not to come to work while refusing rides, you name it. Not one person from that made it more than a month before just up and quitting (Yes, even after the above they tried to work with the people, "training" them of what a real job entails, like showing up, working and not walking off after 10 minutes, etc.).

    This employer PUSHES upward mobility and promoting from within and has a great amount of training classes and help for those who want a promotion to the next level. If you work hard and try, you WILL be promoted (sometimes even undeserved, IMO), and the promotions all have monetary components; no busting your rear for just a higher title. And if you want to go "all the way", quite a few people have been promoted into upper management and to HQ jobs.

    I really don't get what it is about this area where jobs go begging while people would rather fuss about how bad it is rather than do something.
    And I'm not saying it is everywhere, but this region honestly amazes me; it often seems to be a way of life that few are willing to give up??
    How about Catholic Charities and new immigrants? Husband's company worked with several social service type agencies, for the deaf and for the blind, for example.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    My DH works in Memphis, at a plant that CANNOT fill entry level jobs, which start at $12-15/hr with quite nice benefits. They have 3 plants in the Memphis metro area, all of which have the exact same problem. After about 2-3 years there, almost all employees are making $50K+.

    It is not hard or dangerous work (boring shift work, yes), all plants are on metro transportation lines (2 in decent walking distance to high poverty areas), but they do require you actually show up, unstoned, and work.

    And they cannot find workers in an area riddled with poverty, with plenty of politicians and the poor crying there are no decent-paying jobs here.

    Most can't pass the drug test (average 75%+ fail that), many outright state they are only applying in case someone checks so they don't lose their benefits.
    It is an honest-to-goodness running joke on how long new hires will last; and how much rubber they will leave on the drive while making their escape, when they realize they must work while there.

    So is it really on the nasty employers that don't pay enough to support a family?

    Or is Memphis just less of a "mixed bag", since one would think that there would be a line outside the doors every day of those who are willing to work their way out of poverty, happy to take a job with regular paychecks, health care, other benefits, vacation, 5% 401K matching, etc?

    Where are those who are willing to work to change their circumstances? I understand not all are, but where are those who will?

    This is a constant topic in this area; it's not simply DH's plants that have the problem of finding those willing to work while listening to all the cries about the high-poverty in the area.
    I really do not understand this, and haven't since we moved here 10 years ago.
    How about some details on the company and the jobs themselves? I have a feeling there are some COTHers looking for work or better full time work with those kinds of benefits who would happily move to Memphis, or who know others who would be interested.



  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bauhaus View Post
    How about some details on the company and the jobs themselves? I have a feeling there are some COTHers looking for work or better full time work with those kinds of benefits who would happily move to Memphis, or who know others who would be interested.
    If anyone is seriously interested, they can PM me for the company name.


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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    How about Catholic Charities and new immigrants? Husband's company worked with several social service type agencies, for the deaf and for the blind, for example.
    At this point they seem to be satified running as they are, flowing through entry level employees; they have enough to keep the lines manned, and move people where they need to to cover when they don't. On the high side, until Thanksgiving DH had amazing amounts of OT, which has about doubled his income this year.

    I think they feel they have been burned by trying to be decent community citizens; they have certainly tried to help with many different programs that would benefit both parties, yet all you seem to hear is the complaining from those they tried to help.

    And I don't blame them for running as they are now; how much effort do you put into it when there isn't much effort returned, and then you open the paper to read yet another article about how no one pays a living wage in the area, and how all the local companies are surviving on the backs of the poor who can't fight back?


    ETA: sorry, didn't mean to take over the OP's thread. Apologies, vineyridge.


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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    At this point they seem to be satified running as they are, flowing through entry level employees; they have enough to keep the lines manned, and move people where they need to to cover when they don't. On the high side, until Thanksgiving DH had amazing amounts of OT, which has about doubled his income this year.

    I think they feel they have been burned by trying to be decent community citizens; they have certainly tried to help with many different programs that would benefit both parties, yet all you seem to hear is the complaining from those they tried to help.

    And I don't blame them for running as they are now; how much effort do you put into it when there isn't much effort returned, and then you open the paper to read yet another article about how no one pays a living wage in the area, and how all the local companies are surviving on the backs of the poor who can't fight back?


    ETA: sorry, didn't mean to take over the OP's thread. Apologies, vineyridge.
    Well, if they have the jobs filled, then they don't have a problem, right? And the plus (if you can call it that), from a management point of view, with high turnover they're unlikely to organize.

    My DH works in Memphis, at a plant that CANNOT fill entry level jobs, which start at $12-15/hr with quite nice benefits. They have 3 plants in the Memphis metro area, all of which have the exact same problem. After about 2-3 years there, almost all employees are making $50K+.
    Did you mean to say it can be difficult to find people?

    I understand sometimes it's hard to find qualified people, even when the qualifications are extraordinarily low. I know HR gave literacy tests to applicants, so they were at least able to read the alphabet and numbers used as identifiers. Sad how many didn't have at least that very, very basic skill.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  6. #86
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    I never knew ANYTHING about poverty programs until I got too sick to work, ran out of money, and became homeless. I lived on the street and SCROUNGED for food in dumpsters because I didn't know "the system" and no one helped. At ALL. Finally, I applied MYSELF for disability and got it IMMEDIATELY. Since I've been in the bottom tier, I've found an INCREDIBLE amount of fraud. People WANT to steal OUR (taxpayers) money, and those 'administering' it make it oh, SO easy. No more than 20% of those on assistance I've run into since my descent into the depths are needy; the rest are just GREEDY.


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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia73 View Post
    They don't get them. They get $35,000 a year jobs and are expected to be 60-80 hour a week employees, on call 24/7. They may or may not afford their student loan debt.

    I am aghast at what employers want out of a $40,000 a year employee in terms of skill set. I myself am looking for a job. I applied for one... they can't fill it. The pay is $35,000 a year. For someone to guide real estate investment decisions(qualified). Execute pro-formas (qualified). Estimate the cost of repairs on homes (unqualified). Unwilling to train. They bitch that no one is qualified, but ask for 3 skill sets that are somewhat unique. They want a combo realtor/finance/handyman.

    I just missed out on a marketing job. Real estate skills? check. 5 years experience? check. Graphic design? check. Commercial real estate? check. Admin skills? check. Oopsie, not a paralegal. The pay? $40,000. Still unfilled. It is critical to have all those skills, but they don't want to train in any one of them.

    I can't imagine actually moving out of the service industry when the qualifications for the next step up have become so involved. Every employer wants the 17H bay, 8 year old packer than can do the hunters, trail ride, vets clean and they want to pay $5000 for it. Then they bitch when they can't find it.

    Then you have the "gotta have X degree". That company is special- they need someone with a degree in finance. I apply. No degree in finance. So since they can't find someone in finance with the requisite experience, they farm the work out to you guess it.... ME. But they can't hire me- no finance degree, so not qualified. But they'll contract to my company for a higher rate (and no one with finance skills on board).

    Oh yeah, and the drug testing bull shit. Yeah, I heard that from the poultry processors. If my job was slaughtering chickens all day, I might want to go home and smoke dope to forget that I stand all day in a fridge cutting up chickens for $7 an hour. Maybe it is not so critical they remain drug free. Shit, the bankers shovel coke in their noses. OK for them and fine when they gamble on bad mortgages.... we'll bail 'em out. But god forbid some poor laborer smoke a little pot to ease their day.
    No the recent graduates either don't get or maintain those jobs. Main reason is those jobs and salaries require experience and committment.
    One of our mentorees graduated from a well-known college, with honors and no debt, and went into a great 'entry-level' position with the same company as me. For the record his starting salary was double mine. Yes he had to work long hours in a high stress position that most worked a maximum of 7-10 years before moving to a different position. BUT-T-T-T-T it provided great opportunities for experience in all that he professed to want to learn, a chance to network and find mentors to help him advance in his career. SIX Months later the job was gone. 2 DUI's, probably missed work days (based on our experience with him) and his attitude. We allowed him to move back in with us, because at the time we thought he was just laid-off. Later found out the truth of the matter and ended up inviting him plus his female friend to leave within 7 months. This after we returned early from a long weekend to find them both totally and completely 'messed-up' from some sort of drug. DH and I don't do that sort of thing, but have experience with family and friends to recognize the condition.
    Long way to say this kid is an extreme example of many of the kids DH and I run into. Yes many have experienced bad things, but so have many of us. At some point one has to quit being the victim and to start taking care of yourself.
    As to the drug testing - that poultry worker is in a dangerous environment with moving equipment and many sharp objects. All it takes is one little mistake to case injury or death to one or more individuals. About 25 years ago I had a temp job at a plant in GA. 2-3 times a week I had to walk from the office to an office in back of the plant. That walk required: removing all jewelry, no loose clothing(tucked in or removed), safety shoes-glasses+hearing protection. Then I could walk behind the yellow line, which hugged the wall to and from my destination.
    While I was there, one of the employees was killed, he fell into the equipment. The company went into overdrive. Everyone was required to stay on site, counselors were brought in, everyone who had contact with or worked in anyway with the employee were interviewed to determine what happened. Then everyone, including me a temp, were walked through what they believed happened plus all the new steps put into place to try to keep this from happening again.

    Not all poor folks or laborers are salt of the earth
    Not all executives are greedy, fat demons.
    We must understand and except this before we will be able to find an answer. Too many of the kids we work with believe they have no future because of THE MAN. When THE MAN holding them back is the one they see in the mirror. This applies for the females also.
    Last edited by fooler; Jan. 1, 2013 at 07:06 PM.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    The only cure for poverty is to work out of it, even if it takes ten generations.

    Government benefits serve ONLY to legitimize poverty. Just how many have ever lifted themselves out of poverty based on .gov assistance?

    I sure as hell would like to know.
    Mitt Romney's parents?
    Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation


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  9. #89
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    DH works for a company that tried to open a branch in a very economically squished small town. He (the company owner) wanted to hire all local people and jumpstart the town and the economy and ran flat into very very few qualified workers (high school grads with shop class experience for welding bridges together) and even fewer workers that were willing to give up their unemployment and work. THey didn't want to work overtime and any time they ran a random drug test they lost half their workers. They invested in training and lost people, lost the money they put into people, and gradually started losing contracts. Sometimes places/communities/groups that have been economically depressed just sorta stay there... They found a few diamonds in the rough and hired my husband from across the state and finally after a couple of years have a good crew but it's not been easy on them. Due to other circumstances the company could easily dissolve soon and I don't know if they will even leave a trace here in this little town.



  10. #90
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    As to the drug testing - that poultry worker is in a dangerous environment with moving equipment and many sharp objects. All it takes is one little mistake to case injury or death to one or more individuals. About 25 years ago I had a temp job at a plant in GA. 2-3 times a week I had to walk from the office to an office in back of the plant. That walk required: removing all jewelry, no loose clothing(tucked in or removed), safety shoes-glasses+hearing protection. Then I could walk behind the yellow line, which hugged the wall to and from my destination.
    Maybe we should pay the poultry worker a little more if the job is that dangerous? JUst a thought. So maybe they can have more than a crappy trailer and the bare minimum and maybe less despair in their lives. Or we can just hire illegals and when they get torn up, deport them.

    When I did a project for eastern NC I hear time and time again about the lack of good employees for $7 an hour jobs. That's $15,000 a year. For hard, tiring work with no real chance to move up. $1250 a month for rent, food, transport and your share of health care. Oh, plus taxes- everyone pays SSI.

    We have CEO's in this country that pay twice that in a year for fees at their vacation homes.

    So this poor person, working a hazardous job should be grateful to make essentially a subsistence wage while the owner of the company is some benefactor? Maybe the CEO should be happy some poor schmuck will work for jack $hit so he can afford his greens fees for the year.


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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia73 View Post
    Maybe we should pay the poultry worker a little more if the job is that dangerous? JUst a thought. So maybe they can have more than a crappy trailer and the bare minimum and maybe less despair in their lives. Or we can just hire illegals and when they get torn up, deport them.

    When I did a project for eastern NC I hear time and time again about the lack of good employees for $7 an hour jobs. That's $15,000 a year. For hard, tiring work with no real chance to move up. $1250 a month for rent, food, transport and your share of health care. Oh, plus taxes- everyone pays SSI.

    We have CEO's in this country that pay twice that in a year for fees at their vacation homes.

    So this poor person, working a hazardous job should be grateful to make essentially a subsistence wage while the owner of the company is some benefactor? Maybe the CEO should be happy some poor schmuck will work for jack $hit so he can afford his greens fees for the year.
    Tell me any real place in this world, in any age or society, where all are chief cook, no one bottle washer.


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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia73 View Post
    Maybe we should pay the poultry worker a little more if the job is that dangerous? JUst a thought. So maybe they can have more than a crappy trailer and the bare minimum and maybe less despair in their lives. Or we can just hire illegals and when they get torn up, deport them.

    When I did a project for eastern NC I hear time and time again about the lack of good employees for $7 an hour jobs. That's $15,000 a year. For hard, tiring work with no real chance to move up. $1250 a month for rent, food, transport and your share of health care. Oh, plus taxes- everyone pays SSI.

    We have CEO's in this country that pay twice that in a year for fees at their vacation homes.

    So this poor person, working a hazardous job should be grateful to make essentially a subsistence wage while the owner of the company is some benefactor? Maybe the CEO should be happy some poor schmuck will work for jack $hit so he can afford his greens fees for the year.
    I've been in talks with someone to buy a horse. They have at least a dozen well bred, nicely trained horses. The seller is democrat via the facebook feed. No big deal. The sellers price on the horse I was interested in was too high for what I wanted to spend. It was exactly double what I would pay for a horse unproven in what I wanted to do with it. Shouldn't she drop the price to what I'm willing to pay so I can have another nice horse here? Instead, she is keeping it for herself and not selling at the price I will pay for the fruits of her hard work. Unfair...and a true story.


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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLW View Post
    I've been in talks with someone to buy a horse. They have at least a dozen well bred, nicely trained horses. The seller is democrat via the facebook feed. No big deal. The sellers price on the horse I was interested in was too high for what I wanted to spend. It was exactly double what I would pay for a horse unproven in what I wanted to do with it. Shouldn't she drop the price to what I'm willing to pay so I can have another nice horse here? Instead, she is keeping it for herself and not selling at the price I will pay for the fruits of her hard work. Unfair...and a true story.
    In this tortured metaphor was one of you planning to feed that horse to hungry people who can't find a job?


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  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia73 View Post
    Maybe we should pay the poultry worker a little more if the job is that dangerous? JUst a thought. So maybe they can have more than a crappy trailer and the bare minimum and maybe less despair in their lives. Or we can just hire illegals and when they get torn up, deport them.

    When I did a project for eastern NC I hear time and time again about the lack of good employees for $7 an hour jobs. That's $15,000 a year. For hard, tiring work with no real chance to move up. $1250 a month for rent, food, transport and your share of health care. Oh, plus taxes- everyone pays SSI.

    We have CEO's in this country that pay twice that in a year for fees at their vacation homes.

    So this poor person, working a hazardous job should be grateful to make essentially a subsistence wage while the owner of the company is some benefactor? Maybe the CEO should be happy some poor schmuck will work for jack $hit so he can afford his greens fees for the year.
    For starters I am over all of the whining about the CEO's. "Around" half of the CEO's of the top 100 companies do not have college degrees. Most worked hard going up through the ranks or started their own company. Most CEO's are like barn owners - they are never far from work, even while on 'vacation'.
    My attitude is if you are willing to do the work and get the pay - then you can spend your money on greens fees or sponsoring a rider.
    Keep in mind those filthy, horrible rich people hear what is said on this BB about them. At some point they may decide to close their farms to our competitions, stop funding riders, stop buying horses for riders, stop funding our dreams.

    As to pay - I had a defining moment after my divorce some 25 years ago. I was in my mid-30's with a great work ethic and good skills for work that paid little. So I reviewed my skills and what I enjoyed doing and how that would pay for my horse habit. Being a single, white, childless female - there were few options for financial aid so I attended the local vo-tech school for computer programming and repair. Through the school I had one of my favorite jobs and from there moved to another job that was a blast. Granted I was underpaid part of the time, but that was my problem for undervaluing myself. Now my salary is now such that I could do ok should anything happen to DH.

    For the record I did live in less than ideal housing as I progressed. In part because I was laid off in the early 90's recession.
    Some folks are ok living in the trailer, some because they don't know better, some because they have addictions which are more important than anything else. I know folks like that. No matter what you do for them or how you counsel them they don't want to change.

    The folks working the in chicken processing plants are like those working at fast food, barn help, etc. The work is hard, demanding, dirty and many leave as quickly as they can. One of my fellow students at the vo-tech school worked at a processing plant to pay for her schooling - it was a way out for her.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    An example of one justifies continued waste of billions of dollars on people who are now multigenerational welfare dependents.

    What's the definition of insanity again?
    .
    My mother collected SS benefits when my father died. We lived poor, 3 out of five of us finished college none of us children are on any government program. You and your lies make me ill.


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  16. #96
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    If the rest of the poultry processing industry work like the ones in Mississippi, they often deliberately hire immigrants--and many of those are illegal.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  17. #97
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    Tell me any real place in this world, in any age or society, where all are chief cook, no one bottle washer.
    I'm not saying pay the workers enough to own a $15 million dollar second home. Pay them enough for decent, safe housing, food and basic medical care... Pay them enough to live as well as those on public assistance.

    Does the bottle washer not deserve their basic needs covered in exchange for their labor?


    Oh.... and guess why there are illegal immigrants clogging up the ER? Because Mr. Country Club gives them jobs at low wages, makes more profit, pulls a higher salary and asks us to cover the shortfalls on their income via taxpayers. So I subsidize the business that pays for the country club membership.


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  18. #98
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    One last comment.... we get angy at Welfare Mama for bilking the system to get $50 more a week in food stamps. Or the guy who lies to stay on disability. We don't think that 40 hours a week of work at a chicken plant earns a living wage. Poor people just don't earn the right to live at a minimal standard.

    But the wealthy somehow ALWAYS earned the right to live like kings without any help from the system. Except.... they get so much help from the system, often times at cost to taxpayers and communities that it isn't even funny. "Hey, we need to modify our business plan to reduce labor costs, but can't afford to move the plant south"... no worries, the tax payers of the southern state will let you move in and not pay the taxes other businesses pay. You might even get really cheap rent in the business park the taxpayers built. Cool- executive bonuses all around!

    Or hey, I have some useless land.... it would be great if 1. an interstate went by it or 2. an interstate went thru it. Then either it becomes worth more or I get paid above value by the state. Oh cool, I'm a state congressman. WE NEED A ROAD TO NOWHERE. Dang, I just increased the value of that property 10 fold.

    Or hmmm.... this development doesn't pencil out. Well, let's get a new law on the books that makes the golf course "open space preservation". Yeah, I know golf courses are like superfund sites, but I know people on council.

    Or "^&%$&^ we gambled poorly when we made $500,000 home loans to people making $30,000 a year and are out of money.... HELP!" No problem, here is a loan... wouldn't want you out of business due to incompetence.

    Don't for a second think that the poor are the only ones making a living off manipulating the government.


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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia73 View Post
    One last comment.... we get angy at Welfare Mama for bilking the system to get $50 more a week in food stamps. Or the guy who lies to stay on disability. We don't think that 40 hours a week of work at a chicken plant earns a living wage. Poor people just don't earn the right to live at a minimal standard.

    But the wealthy somehow ALWAYS earned the right to live like kings without any help from the system. Except.... they get so much help from the system, often times at cost to taxpayers and communities that it isn't even funny. "Hey, we need to modify our business plan to reduce labor costs, but can't afford to move the plant south"... no worries, the tax payers of the southern state will let you move in and not pay the taxes other businesses pay. You might even get really cheap rent in the business park the taxpayers built. Cool- executive bonuses all around!

    Or hey, I have some useless land.... it would be great if 1. an interstate went by it or 2. an interstate went thru it. Then either it becomes worth more or I get paid above value by the state. Oh cool, I'm a state congressman. WE NEED A ROAD TO NOWHERE. Dang, I just increased the value of that property 10 fold.

    Or hmmm.... this development doesn't pencil out. Well, let's get a new law on the books that makes the golf course "open space preservation". Yeah, I know golf courses are like superfund sites, but I know people on council.

    Or "^&%$&^ we gambled poorly when we made $500,000 home loans to people making $30,000 a year and are out of money.... HELP!" No problem, here is a loan... wouldn't want you out of business due to incompetence.

    Don't for a second think that the poor are the only ones making a living off manipulating the government.
    Exactly. My husband's company...same one I referenced above, wanted breaks from the local government for a plant expansion. So they went shopping. SC offered tax rebates, low interest on executive home loans, paid country club memberships...the list went on and on. They really had no intention of moving...just playing one off on the other. And it worked.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  20. #100
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    Nor Maggie are the wealthy. As stated before some people are good and others are not with in the middle.

    I know folks whose family farm was destroyed because the state and fed governments decided to put the interstate or the "outer/inter" loop through the middle of their land. Long time farmers have lost their land because their taxes were magically increased.
    One of the wealthy bi**** girls from HS, whose father is a physician, had a wonderful younger sister who rode with me. Their family was torn to shreds when the younger sister developed multiple forms of cancer and died a slow painful death at 19. Money and education does not shield one from the bad things in life.

    I once held many of your opinions. I now understand what many of my mentors were trying to teach me years ago.
    1) Life is not fair. One of the kindess and wealthest families in my home community dealt with mental illness and strife amongst their children. Yet they spent hours and many of their dollars mentoring, providing free or low-cost health care and yes running 2 recognized HT annually.
    2) People living in proverty have to decide they really want out AND THAT IS HARD. It means changing your actions and thoughts, breaking away from family and friends who do not have the same drive. I know because 20 years ago I lived in a leaky house, with a beater car and worked full-time plus cared for horses at 2 different barns. "I" had to make the decision to change my fortunes, it was not the responsibility of those who employed me.
    3) Spend some time talking to and watching the actions of those wealthy folks. You may find that they give more to the community than you realize. Many people give with no desire for credit or acknowledgement. The High Museum is in Atlanta because of the anomous donations of the 1960-70's CEO of Coca-Cola. This was confirmed after his death.
    4) Spend some time talking to and trying to assist those poor, downtroddend folks. You will find, as we have, that many are willing to take all that you will give without changing their actions. BIG LESSON DH and I have learned these past 10 years.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    4 members found this post helpful.

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