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  1. #1
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    Default Interesting poverty statistic

    The Memphis paper has been doing a series on poverty in Memphis. Today's chapter is called Poverty, Inc, and details how much money goes into the Memphis economy from and to support the poor. They say it's over 5 Billion dollars per year, 56% of which comes from the federal government.

    But the interesting statistic is that across the nation (per federal figures) a household making less that $10k "lived on the average" as if they made 21k. Story doesn't say if that's 21K after taxes or not. Since the poverty line of 19k+ for a family of 4 doesn't include any federal benefits like the earned income tax credit or the child care tax credit or Section 8 housing or food stamps or Medicaid or SSI, etc., people who are officially in poverty might have effective incomes that are much greater than the poverty level.

    It looks to me as if one of the things that the feds should focus on is a more realistic definition of poverty for benefit qualification.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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  2. #2
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    Default

    Um... 19k for a family of four? To a Canadian like me, that sounds ridiculously low.

    I wasn't sure from your post if you believed that the VERY low-income were getting too much, or the still-quite-low-income were not getting enough.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of stars makes me dream." --Vincent Van Gogh


    7 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    The only cure for poverty is to work out of it, even if it takes ten generations.

    Government benefits serve ONLY to legitimize poverty. Just how many have ever lifted themselves out of poverty based on .gov assistance?

    I sure as hell would like to know.


    18 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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    I wouldn't wish poverty on anyone. Likewise, I hate to learn about scamming the system as shown in this article. Scamming at ALL financial levels is wrong.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/op...ABd1nwZZrRbGA&

    Poverty is most often a self inflicted condition. Graduate from high school, don't have babies until you are married or can afford one on your own, don't do drugs & don't break the law.


    25 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Default

    They don't have "effective incomes." They have credit cards.

    Why do you think the country's in such a mess financially, anyway?

    And as for you, SLW, put your money where your mouth is. Please. Not all of us have children. And yes, I did graduate from high school. And college. And graduate school. Ever been accused of being overeducated for the jobs you've applied for?

    No, I don't do drugs or break the law.

    Now go catalog your credit cards, please.
    Founder of the People Who Prefer COTH Over FB Clique
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    12 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellspotted View Post
    They don't have "effective incomes." They have credit cards.

    Why do you think the country's in such a mess financially, anyway?

    And as for you, SLW, put your money where your mouth is. Please. Not all of us have children.
    ????


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLW View Post
    ????
    that was my reaction,,, huh


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    The only cure for poverty is to work out of it, even if it takes ten generations.

    Government benefits serve ONLY to legitimize poverty. Just how many have ever lifted themselves out of poverty based on .gov assistance?

    I sure as hell would like to know.
    I went to college with a brother and sister whose family lived in low-income housing. Their education was subsidized by government grants and merit scholarships. Both graduated and became productive members of society, and encouraged their mom to go to college when they were done.

    MGiH, it actually happens. What utter arrogance to consider that it does not.
    Don't tell me about what you can't do. That's boring. Show me what you can do. - Mom


    29 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wellspotted View Post
    They don't have "effective incomes." They have credit cards.

    Why do you think the country's in such a mess financially, anyway?

    And as for you, SLW, put your money where your mouth is. Please. Not all of us have children. And yes, I did graduate from high school. And college. And graduate school. Ever been accused of being overeducated for the jobs you've applied for?

    No, I don't do drugs or break the law.

    Now go catalog your credit cards, please.
    Looks like you hit the send button too soon the first time. Roger on the revised version.

    Hey, I said "most often self inflicted", not every.single.time. I also said I wouldn't wish poverty on anyone and I mean that.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emryss View Post
    I went to college with a brother and sister whose family lived in low-income housing. Their education was subsidized by government grants and merit scholarships. Both graduated and became productive members of society, and encouraged their mom to go to college when they were done.

    MGiH, it actually happens. What utter arrogance to consider that it does not.
    What right do they have to other people's money?


    12 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLW View Post
    Poverty is most often a self inflicted condition. Graduate from high school, don't have babies until you are married or can afford one on your own, don't do drugs & don't break the law.
    This is simply not true. Poverty is a very, very hard cycle to break out of.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    What right do they have to other people's money?
    Probably someone sane in government once upon a time thought "hey, if we subsidize the poor to get a good education, they might become tax-paying members of society and return our investment tenfold, rather than taking 10 generations to dig themselves into some kind of stability while we give them food stamps and pay for their ER care and whatnot."

    Just my guess. Probably a better investment of taxpayer moolah than sending hundreds of millions to Pakistan so they can stab the US in the back more efficiently.


    37 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    What right do they have to other people's money?
    What a self-righteous Scrooge.

    Education is the road out of poverty. We need an educated society to be a civilized society, and I am very happy to pay my fair share to ensure that.
    Don't tell me about what you can't do. That's boring. Show me what you can do. - Mom


    28 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emryss View Post
    What a self-righteous Scrooge.

    Education is the road out of poverty. We need an educated society to be a civilized society, and I am very happy to pay my fair share to ensure that.
    I agree with you on the education part but it seems not many in poverty want to go that route. I don't think it's scrooge-ish at all for people to show effort...earn...their helping hand by staying clean and sober, obeying the laws and not having babies until THEY can support them. I stopped at 2 because we felt that's all we could afford. Seems reasonable to expect the same.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emryss View Post
    What a self-righteous Scrooge.

    Education is the road out of poverty. We need an educated society to be a civilized society, and I am very happy to pay my fair share to ensure that.
    You are a fool then. We have spent untold billions since Lyndon Johnson's great idea and all we have created is a permanent UNCIVILZED underclass of welfare leeches.

    I have earned the right to be a self righteous scrooge when I see people in "poverty" living better than those who produce.

    Mitt was wrong about the 47%. That number is quite a bit higher.

    It will be a fun day when the EBT cards get denied at the register because there is no more "money" to pay for them. And make no mistake, that day is coming.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    caballero, you are right on the nail! It can't go on forever and there are more and more draining the system. In some states, there are more takers than those contributing. How can that possibly end well?

    As good as it all sounds to be compassionate, this country needs a dose of reality and tough love!


    10 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    Probably someone sane in government once upon a time thought "hey, if we subsidize the poor to get a good education, they might become tax-paying members of society and return our investment tenfold, rather than taking 10 generations to dig themselves into some kind of stability while we give them food stamps and pay for their ER care and whatnot."
    How's that working out in reality?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcLlP1PDWfc


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    Default

    It's too bad that it isn't a requirement for anyone getting any welfare assistance/foodstamps/etc work a 40 hr week doing community service. Give them a choice of shifts to accomodate them searching for a job during the remainder of the 24 hr period. Think what that would do for keeping the streets cleaned, picking up trash along highways, crossing guards for schools, school monitors, helping at animal control walking dogs and grooming and cleaning cages, washing city vehicles, cleaning city buildings, etc. have a city van pick up the people from home that don't have transportation, and have them have access at a collection point after work where they use computers for an hr to apply for jobs. Maybe the collection point could be the unemployment office, so they could see what jobs are available.
    Have businesses get the employees wages paid (basically they are receiving the unemployment benefit) for the first 60 days if they take them on and train them for that job, with the possibility of being hired after the 60 days.

    If someone is on disability, find out what work they CAN do, and have them do that. Not able to stand...maybe they can do something on computers, or sit in on classes at school to help tutor kids. Maybe they could work the counter at animal control, or do ads for petfinder.


    23 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emryss View Post
    What a self-righteous Scrooge.

    Education is the road out of poverty. We need an educated society to be a civilized society, and I am very happy to pay my fair share to ensure that.
    I'm not. My grandparents didn't go to college, my parents did, and my brother and I did funded in part by one of those grandparents. No one took any money from the government, even my dad (despite being one of twelve children with a dead mother-wasn't getting any money from HIS family for school, so he worked. He didn't go begging.)

    I'll agree to my money paying for someone else's education when that person agrees to study something useful (even if it's the highly-undervalued trade schools instead of so-called "real" college), not breed more brats to feed unless they can do it without assistance, not commit any crimes, and not take out loans they have no intention of repaying. It isn't, in fact, difficult to go through life without getting knocked up/knocking someone up, trying any sort of drug, or committing felonies. People who do forfeit any right to assistance and people are right to resent them.

    I work with plenty of people who did not go begging for an education (and funnily are perfectly capable of learning their jobs without a four-year degree, and are probably better candidates to run the place than the manager's son who pops in between his business-school classes to demonstrate he knows absolutely nothing useful about actually running a business) or who are busting their arses to pay for it.


    19 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Oct. 30, 2006
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    Education is all fine and good but what is really needed at the end of the day are jobs for these folks to work at.
    I don't always feel up to arguing with your ignorance


    5 members found this post helpful.

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