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  1. #21
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    Sep. 18, 2000
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    Tatertown, KY, USA
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    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    bwwwaaaaahhhaaaa, thats another blame bush website,,,,,, FFS cant you guys come up with ANYTHING new.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Can you come up with any facts explaining why that site is wrong?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpsoMatt View Post
    Can you come up with any facts explaining why that site is wrong?
    not my job.



  5. #25
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Yeah. Hystrionics, hyperbole, name-calling, lots of !!!!!!, is your "job." NEVER an apology for the behavior or a thank you for the provision of facts so you don't embarras yourself in public.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Apr. 10, 2005
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    Spring, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Sorry Obama gets full blame for everthing under his watch.. Libs were so quick to blame everything on Bush,,, so O gets the blame, Hes #1 .
    Yes, and when Bush was in office, everything was Clinton's fault. That's the way this works.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackandMo View Post
    Yes, and when Bush was in office, everything was Clinton's fault. That's the way this works.
    Dont really recall any blame Clinton,,,, Bush was too busy trying to spank the middle east for attaching the WTC and the pentagon.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/us...dget.html?_r=0
    "As for war costs, Mr. Bush included little or none in his annual military budgets, instead routinely asking Congress for supplemental appropriations during the year. Mr. Obama will include cost projections for every year through the 2019 fiscal year to cover “overseas military contingencies” — nearly $500 billion over 10 years.

    For Medicare, Mr. Bush routinely budgeted less than actual costs for payments to physicians, although he and Congress regularly waived a law mandating the lower reimbursements for fear that doctors would quit serving beneficiaries in protest.

    Mr. Obama will budget $401 billion over 10 years for higher costs and interest on the debt."

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009...ighing-the-ir/

    http://www.ombwatch.org/node/3612

    http://costofwar.com/

    "Another obstacle to estimating the true costs is that many of them are buried in other government accounts and therefore don’t show up in the direct appropriations for the war. Further, some war-related spending has been pushed out of the government altogether and is borne by private parties. But just because it doesn’t show up in the government ledger doesn’t mean it isn’t a cost—it means only that someone else pays it. For example, the failure to provide adequate budgetary support for the Veterans Health Administration has forced many veterans to buy private medical care. While this reduces government spending, there are no real savings for the country. Similarly, relying on the National Guard and the reserves to help fight the war removes hundreds of thousands of workers from the civilian labor force, imposing real costs on the economy as a whole—not to mention on the men and women who are suddenly called to active duty, and on their families.

    Finally, we should point out that the procedure used by the administration to fund the Iraq war was chosen deliberately in order to deflect close attention. The administration has requested nearly all the money for the war in the form of “emergency” funding, which is not subject to standard budget caps or vigorous scrutiny. Emergency funding is intended for genuine crises, such as Hurricane Katrina, where the utmost speed is required to get the money to the field. The continued use of this emergency procedure—five years after the war began—is budgetary sleight of hand that makes a mockery of a democratic budget process."
    http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...stiglitz200804

    "The events and policies that pushed deficits to these high levels in the near term were, for the most part, not of President Obama’s making. If not for the Bush tax cuts, the deficit-financed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the effects of the worst recession since the Great Depression (including the cost of policymakers’ actions to combat it), we would not be facing these huge deficits in the near term. By themselves, in fact, the Bush tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will account for almost half of the $18 trillion in debt that, under current policies, the nation will owe by 2019.[1] The stimulus measures and financial rescues will account for less than 10 percent of the debt at that time."
    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3849


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    May. 11, 2004
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    ^^ Tru Dat ( and anyone who knows me knows I am not normally on btdt's side on these things) But the links she has provided tells the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

    What she and I normally disagree on is where to get "extra money from" I social programs and leave the military( personel, vets) ect and Vets programs alone and she states the military ( broadly and I assume she means contract, and weapons ect and not the personel etc). So where we disagree is cutting of social programs.

    I do have to argue with the link cost of war however..
    <For example, the failure to provide adequate budgetary support for the Veterans Health Administration has forced many veterans to buy private medical care.> This has not happened only in receant years but since AT LEAST the 1980's when the rules changed And only certain Vet qualtified for VA treatment. 1) the Vet had to be of Vietnam or older or 2) has to met a means test of some ridiculously low amount a month. 3) or be X amount disabled by military boards. Now there is a new group of course BUT the new Vets have limited time to file AND limited to use I THINK it is 5 yrs unless they fall under cat number 3.
    So as there are aprox 1500 less WWII vets everyday. And the Vietnam vets are not spring chickens anymore. Eventually only the really poor vets and the disabled ( using the military standard of disabled and don't even get me started on that),eventually there will be enough in their budget.. Because the other Vets are being taken care of by the insurance ( usually Tricare) they have bought.
    And this part...
    <relying on the National Guard and the reserves to help fight the war removes hundreds of thousands of workers from the civilian labor force, imposing real costs on the economy as a whole—not to mention on the men and women who are suddenly called to active duty, and on their families.>
    That is what they are there for. Yes they are also for if the states have an emagerancy like Katrenia or Sandy. But look at their uniforms they say US Army. Air Force. Not Calif Army, Air Force.
    I am going to assume that the writer of the article means the USARA law there is nothing in the law that sates the employer has to keep the position open for the troop member who has been called up. No he can emploly someone who wants/needs a job, the only thing that USARA does is ensure that the troop has a job when he returns home.
    Many NG units have served in many wars before this one. ask to see the "battle ribbons" some time..
    The pay for the NG is screwy at best.. it is not state $$ kinda sorta but it is kinda sorta. It comes from the feds to the state to be doled out as the feds see fit but the state can limit how it is used,. But the feds can over ride the states if they feel necessary. But the states have final say.And of course at the end of the fiscle year the state are either scrambeling for more funds or have to spend what they have so they get more next( or rather year after next) year. But that is the way the budget has always worked.
    Friend of bar .ka


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Can any of Obama's apologists explain WHY he can't seem to pass a budget? This has been going on now since he first took office. The House has passed several budgets which have then languished at the Senate and didn't even get voted on. His administration 100% deserves the blame for the current mess regardless of who did what 4-8 years ago.

    Our gov't spends way more than it takes in. Period. Of what they currently spend on programs, half of that is borrowed. You can't raise taxes enough on anyone to cover this spending deficit. Obama has done NOTHING to fix this...NOTHING..and this is one reason for the hangup in Wash. DC right now. He wants more tax money and more spending and NO CUTS on spending. I can't figure out what is wrong with these people...if they are really THAT stupid. What is amazing is how few Americans realize what is really going on in DC or just listen to the liberal media repeat Obama's words blaming the Republican's for everything that has gone wrong from the time he took office until now.

    We haven't even begun to feel the worst of it. We have an economy on very shaky ground facing tax increases on everyone now which will cause more job losses. On top of that we have Obamacare coming on line which effects are hard to predict other than more people will lose their jobs and hours. Seriously, we are in deep crap and it's time someone pushed the current administration to DO SOMETHING other than blame someone else for their own incompetence.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Mar. 12, 2006
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    Ocala
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    I know this is a very simplistic look to a very complicated situation, but it seems to me that the Obama supporters have little or no interest in paying down debt, limiting spending to money coming in, getting their house in order without raising taxes. All I hear from them is raising taxes on the wealthy, because they are not paying their fair share (never mentioning that Romney paid over $6 million in taxes, which covered how many welfare and unemployment checks?). The Republican congress is getting a bad rap because they will not raise taxes on the wealthy and keep from going over the "fiscal cliff". As has been noted, the tax raise proposed on the wealthy will pay the government's bill for about 7 days. It does no good whatsoever. Spending has to be cut, and none of the Obama supporters want their entitlements cut. The Romney/Ryan plan might not have been popular, but I think it would have worked. No one likes to make cuts, but to continue on with this bloated spending is very very scary.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Jul. 5, 2007
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    You can't blame any one President. You cannot blame any one person. We all go here together. The populace. The Congress. The entire freaking govermant and the people who elected them.

    I'm sorry, but the American Government is too big, too convoluted and it is going to colapse under its own weight. We cannot continue like this.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Apr. 23, 1999
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    Rosehill, TX
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    dense but educational - be sure to read comments, lots more good info and discussion there

    from article
    the Modern Money (MMT) school, has discovered that in fact government deficits are absolutely necessary for economic growth and they represent no strain on a monetarily sovereign government issuing a non-convertible floating currency, like the US, UK, Canadian, Australian, and Japanese national governments.
    Read more at http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/...664XMrDiDlR.99
    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”



  14. #34
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAlex View Post
    You can't blame any one President. You cannot blame any one person. We all go here together. The populace. The Congress. The entire freaking govermant and the people who elected them.

    I'm sorry, but the American Government is too big, too convoluted and it is going to colapse under its own weight. We cannot continue like this.
    I agree with this completely. Our current mess is a culmination of policies from the time of Nixon to today. The collapse of the housing market in 2008 was not truly Bush's fault either and a good bit of that blame needs to go to the Democrats who pushed for loans to people who really couldn't pay them back. Senator Obama in ACORN for example played a role in that. You'll not hear that from Obama and his gang though...all they want to do is blame Bush for that and take no responsibility for the continued weakening of our economy. We truly are in a bad place right now and I'm sick of listening to excuses.

    What aggravates me to no end is that current administrations "spend, borrow, spend, borrow and now, spend, tax and borrow mentality. Gov't spending MUST be cut and cut hard or we face a true economic collapse coming and it will probably come before 2016 if nothing is done quickly to quit building trillions in debt annually and devaluing our currency by quantitative easing. Time is running out and all the leadership in Washington DC can do is blame someone else for it. It is complete BS.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    Sep. 2, 2008
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    There really isn't any "cliff" per se. The requirement for congress to approve the increase in the national debt each year isn't a constitutional one, it's just a law. They could do away with the law at any time by the same voting mechanism they use to increase the debt ceiling.

    Nor do they need to borrow funds to pay for things. That, also, is just a law which is left over from the days of the gold standard. They could vote to do away with that by simple vote also.

    Without these two laws, they could fund the deficit on an ongoing basis by "printing" money.

    But, both sides think they benefit politically from this annual dog-and-pony show, so they keep it up.
    Last edited by altjaeger; Dec. 31, 2012 at 11:49 AM.
    Yes, I know how to spell. I'm using freespeling!

    freespeling


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    couple things.

    Why has the Senate not passed a budget in the last threee years?? It's their job.

    Why did Obama recently (last weeek I think) just give federal employees a raise??? Would that be funded by the taxes that are going up tomorrow??

    Unreal.

    And again, it's ALL the politicians, but it stuns me that people willingly ignore facts just because they don't fit into their particular ideology.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Sorry Obama gets full blame for everthing under his watch.. Libs were so quick to blame everything on Bush,,, so O gets the blame, Hes #1 .
    Surely there must be a support group somewhere for people like you who are allergic to facts.

    This sort of slab-sided view really gets on my nerves.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    Why did Obama recently (last weeek I think) just give federal employees a raise??? Would that be funded by the taxes that are going up tomorrow??
    I'm a federal employee and I'm not getting a raise. Think you might be mistaken on that one. In fact, we haven't had cost of living increases in three years now.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Can any of Obama's apologists explain WHY he can't seem to pass a budget? This has been going on now since he first took office. The House has passed several budgets which have then languished at the Senate and didn't even get voted on. His administration 100% deserves the blame for the current mess regardless of who did what 4-8 years ago.
    No, the situation is not that simple.

    I do blame Republicans for much (but NOT ALL) of our current budget woes. Loosening too many regulations on business (going back decades) and going into a war that wasn't paid for or even justified has caused many of our fiscal problems now. Obama didn't create those problems so why blame him?

    He has indeed called for cuts in his budget proposal.

    As an aside, one thing about our government that troubles me besides the budget and the deep ideological divide, which makes it very difficult to actually get anything done, is the fact that corporations now have practically unlimited ability to buy and sell politicians. That Supreme Court decision took some power away from voters.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    OOPs - you are right. Sorry!

    http://www.onenewspage.com/n/Politic...r-Congress.htm

    It was a removal of the raise freeze, I think.



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