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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Because vegetarianism is not a religious belief
    Actually I know a number of people who do base their vegan eating on their religious beliefs. So valid argument for both components. Slippery slope allowing corporations to base their employee benefits on their religion.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post

    I said, "religious flavor is irrelevant" and you asked if I was "that unfamiliar with the Constitution?"

    So, please, tell me, where in the Constitution does it say that freedom of religion only applies to some religions and not others?
    OK this is where the mis-understanding happened.

    I thought you were saying religion is irrelevant-meaning there is no freedom of religious expression, etc.

    As far as choosing one over another-I agree there is to be no favoritism...which is why Catholic business owners should not be required by law to provide a benefit that is so fundamentally against the church.



  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Slippery slope allowing corporations to base their employee benefits on their religion.
    YES and equally as slippery having government forcing it!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #124
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    Nov. 5, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Nope, just those that equate disagreement with "whining". You aren't participating in an intelligent discussion, you're belittling those that disagree with you.



    Say what now?



    It isn't an assumed right. We, as a society, said that we believe that health insurance should be available to all who earn it. We're a little behind the rest of the first world, in this matter, to begin with.



    I strongly disagree with this line of thinking, but that's irrelevant at this point. Throw a temper tantrum all you want, but the majority in this country disagree with you. This isn't the discussion anymore. The discussion is about those who think that their religious beliefs make them above the law.
    So basically you are saying, we won, you lost, end of discussion. Get over it.
    Nice. Lets no longer discuss the role of the federal government, and the inherent principles of the framers of the constitution. That is apparently ancient history.
    "We, as a society, said that we believe that health insurance should be available to all who earn it. We're a little behind the rest of the first world, in this matter, to begin with."
    You are also leaving out a small point, that it is also about insuring those who don't earn it.



  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Unless there is a Church of LMH that I'm unfamiliar with?
    Bonus points for snottiness and sarcasm!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #126
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    Sep. 7, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Because vegetarianism is not a religious belief
    Some Seventh Day Adventists are vegans and believe it is part of their religious expression. I used to catch cooking shows on their religious channel where they cooked vegan recipies and promoted vegan products. So yes it is part of a religious belief.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoonlady View Post
    Some Seventh Day Adventists are vegans and believe it is part of their religious expression. I used to catch cooking shows on their religious channel where they cooked vegan recipies and promoted vegan products. So yes it is part of a religious belief.
    Fair enough-I thought it was deliberately being used as a non-religious example.



  8. #128
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    Nov. 5, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pocket Pony View Post
    I think we got here because of the insurance companies. At one point when we had COBRA, during the open enrollment period lo and behold our category of coverage was no longer available so they wanted to increase our premiums from ~$800/month to $2000/month!!!! WTF?! That is a mortgage payment - where on earth am I supposed to come up with an extra $2000 a month? Luckily the employer I was working for at the time decided that they would indeed offer health insurance so the monthly payment went down to about $700/month. When I left that job, DH had to set up his company in such a way so that we could get insurance as a company, because we knew we could not get it as individuals when COBRA from my previous job would have run out.

    Speaking from my own experience (well, and also of a friend of mine who was self-employed), DH and I were unable to get insurance on our own - we were denied coverage for "preexisting conditions" - he for going to the chiropractor, me for having knee surgery.

    Face it, for whatever reason (I blame greedy insurance companies), health insurance in this country has been set up to favor those who can get it through work. It is a new way to separate the "haves" from the "have nots". I am the same person I was when we were denied individual coverage, but we could not be denied coverage as a company, so that's how we had to get it. It is crazy.

    My friend couldn't get health insurance for her family on their own. California has a plan for people in that type of situation, but you have to have gone without insurance for six months in order to get it (wtf?). During that six-month period she had an incident for which she had to be rushed to the hospital, spent the night in the ER having all sorts of tests, and had a bill of around $50k. She was just a few weeks out from being qualified for the other health plan that I think is probably more for emergencies than for "well care."

    When I was talking to my afore-mentioned employer about getting health coverage (which, bless them, they did), I was so desperate for it that I offered alternatives to them to lower their costs - I would have been willing to be paid less, and I would have been willing to not be part of the profit sharing plan - health insurance is THAT important because if you don't have it, one emergency situation can bankrupt you.
    There were other ways and suggestions for dealing and solving these issues, without the federal government taking over one sixth of our economy.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsehand View Post
    So basically you are saying, we won, you lost, end of discussion. Get over it.
    Nice. Lets no longer discuss the role of the federal government, and the inherent principles of the framers of the constitution. That is apparently ancient history.
    No, I'm saying that this isn't the point of this thread. If you want to start a discussion about the constitutionality of the AHCA, by all means, do so. But you're making arguments irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is, should business owners be permitted to circumvent the law because of their religious beliefs. And you're being obnoxious about it.

    "We, as a society, said that we believe that health insurance should be available to all who earn it. We're a little behind the rest of the first world, in this matter, to begin with."
    You are also leaving out a small point, that it is also about insuring those who don't earn it.
    You're really confused about the finer points of health care and insurance.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    As far as choosing one over another-I agree there is to be no favoritism...which is why Catholic business owners should not be required by law to provide a benefit that is so fundamentally against the church.
    But businesses are not religious organizations. Do you really not understand the difference? Or why it matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Bonus points for snottiness and sarcasm!
    I do what I can.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #131
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    Abortion opponents are happy to waste everybody's time and energy on these types of issues so they can further muddle the progress of 'health care for all.'

    Which is hysterical, when you think about it. These folks want to promote as many pregnancies as possible, so that those individuals are then 'free' to grow up poor and die poor. They are essentially actively working to foster an underclass so that the upperclass maintain their essential supply of cheap labor.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  12. #132
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    So how about circumcision? No takes on that one?

    No takes on having a basic healthcare policy with 'riders' avaiable?

    Is dental and vision included in Obamacare?

    MUST employers provide that or is it an option someone can add?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    But businesses are not religious organizations. Do you really not understand the difference

    Let's say I am a sole proprietor...now I am not a corporation.




    I do what I can.
    You did quite well for yourself.



  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
    Abortion opponents are happy to waste everybody's time and energy on these types of issues so they can further muddle the progress of 'health care for all.'

    Which is hysterical, when you think about it. These folks want to promote as many pregnancies as possible, so that those individuals are then 'free' to grow up poor and die poor. They are essentially actively working to foster an underclass so that the upperclass maintain their essential supply of cheap labor.
    That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

    What about not playing hide the salami if you can't afford a baby or don't use BC?

    Are condoms provided under Obamacare as well? Just curious.

    They should be since they prevent STDs. Condoms for everyone.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #135
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    How fair is it to Michaels when their main competitor gets to jetison a major business expense on "religious" grounds? I think a better comparison is the Quakers who objected to their taxes being spent on war. Too bad, they lost that argument.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  16. #136
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    I wonder if employers will have to provide medicinal marijuana.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    LOL.....the party for the middle class......SUCKERS
    Oh brother. And you actually think the Republican party is for the middle class?? Talk about suckers!

    Some of you guys complain about the government's interference in the economy -- well regulations have been loosened over the last 30 years and look where that has got us. There needs to be MORE regulation *and* MORE accountability for white collar crooks. Both.

    As far as the HL case, well, the insurance is paying for the forms of birth control, not HL, and HL is not complying with federal law. Personally I don't have sympathy for an employer like David Green. Does he have a problem with someone doubling up on BC pills after unprotected sex too?


    11 members found this post helpful.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    So how about circumcision? No takes on that one?
    I'm unfamiliar with the finer points of the procedure. I know what it is and why it's done, but I don't know if it is considered an elective cosmetic procedure or something else.

    Either way though, I guess my opinion is this: what I do with the health insurance that I have earned is none of your damn business. If the insurance does cover circumcision, than yes, you are required to pay for it regardless of your religious beliefs.

    No takes on having a basic healthcare policy with 'riders' avaiable?
    I already agreed that this is probably a better way to handle some issues. However, even this plan has its sticking points. During a discussion about making abortion covered under a separate rider in Kansas, a reporter asked a state legislator if there would be a rape/incest exception. As in, in the cases of rape or incest abortion would be covered under the regular health care plan because who in their right mind pays for a separate rider on the off chance that they will become a victim of a violent crime. The legislators response? "Well, I don't plan on getting a flat tire, but I have a spare in my car". Yes, ladies, you should plan on becoming a rape victim just like you should plan on maybe someday having a flat tire. /RANT
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    What about not playing hide the salami if you can't afford a baby or don't use BC?

    Are condoms provided under Obamacare as well? Just curious.

    They should be since they prevent STDs. Condoms for everyone.
    And now we get to the real point - women who have sex are sluts who should be punished.

    It isn't about religion or anything else. It's about punishing the whores. And you wonder why people find you offensive?
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    18 members found this post helpful.

  20. #140
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    From Title VII of The Civil Rights Act;

    UNLAWFUL EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES

    SEC. 2000e-2. [Section 703]
    (a) Employer practices
    It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer -
    (1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; or
    (2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees or applicants for employment in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


    4 members found this post helpful.

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