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  1. #441
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    Both left and right wingnuts hurl insults at each other. My favorite is watching the two sides act innocent of this behavior while they each go off to find "proof". This is why I have a difficult time taking either side too seriously.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
    W. C. Fields


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathy s. View Post
    I disagree. I will peruse OT threads and provide proof of my statement...in the morning. Right now, I am beat and except for skimming threads, I'm outta here. Goodnight all!
    of course you disagree.
    however, the point being, name calling does not solve any issue. How could it, since now the other side is upset about being called names.
    Basic kinder garden math, unfortunately one can't send the players into timeout!
    Quote Originally Posted by fargaloo View Post
    Do you not understand how asking "why now?" is EXACTLY part of the reason why assault victims feel silenced?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Did you notice in my hypothetical situation that the injured party DIED?
    Ok, lets take the hypothetical one step further. They were driving-had car insurance presumably. Any insurance agent worth 2 cents and concerned with their job would have broached the subject of life insurance, especially to a young person. If they had been responsible, then they would have bought the life insurance which would have been available to pay for the medical bills left behind.
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown



  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Wow, I see the Gop Faux News people unable to respond.....
    It was late and not everyone likes to respond to snark and snide.

    1. If they had had insurance the entire time of their lives, they would not have "pre-existing conditions". I know stuff happens and that it is not always something that you can have-change of jobs, aging off a parents policy etc. I get that. However, when you know that these things are going to happen, or could happen, you make other arrangements. You pay for it yourself. You don't go crybabying it to make others pay for your stuff.

    2. Maximum benefits need to be changed. Some of them are truly ridiculous. You won't get an arguement on me on that one. For me personally, I go by the theory of just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I have had livestock too long I guess, because it colors my view. For me, I don't want extraordinary measures taken. If I get cancer-surgery, and 1 go round of chemo, then let nature take its course. That is a decision that I don't get to make for anyone else, not even my kids, so why should a pencil pusher who is not a doctor, much less that person's doctor, get to make that decision? They shouldn't, but there is a catch to that. Eventually, you run out of money. Eventually, the public feed trough runs out of money.
    3. No ability to obtain insurance could mean a few different things. Are you referring to not being able to afford it or being in such bad shape that you can't get it?


    This is just in general, and not directed at anyone in particular. Insurance is based on the law of large numbers. You pay in 500 and Joe pays in 500 and Suzie pays in 500 etc in case Mary has a claim. If enough people have a claim, then the pool of money does run out. In order to make sure that everyone has access to the coverages they were promised, either more premium has to be raised or the coverages cut. You can't get blood out of a turnip and too many people are wanting to do so.

    People we can't all get EVERYTHING we want. We can get some, but not all, and this is what it is all boiling down to. Not everyone has more to give. Not everyone should have to pay for me. I should have to pay for me, and you for you and sometimes, life stinks. No one ever told us life was fair-if they did, they lied.

    Personally, I would like to see doctors have a price list. AND explain what this test does, vs that one instead of running 5 tests concurrently and billing for all.Let people make informed choices. We do it with everything else in life, why not medical care? Why is the pricing such a mystery to the general public?
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown



  5. #445
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    Apr. 9, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye in the Sky View Post
    You have never worked for a hospital, have you? Because if you had, you would know that hospitals NEGOTIATE costs of care with insurance companies. Also, you would be aware that anyone who chooses to pay OOP, also gets to negotiate rates.


    I am so tired of people not getting the basics correct on this issue. I also can tell you that even sans the healthcare bill, there were already caps placed on individual policies - still hate government interference/regulation? The healthcare bill is designed to provide more preventative care in hopes of deterring more costly care as a nation. Now, with that said, we still do not know if this will work out in practice. We will have to be patient.
    Nevertheless, if the sum of the premiums is less than the amount of medical care accrued, the insurance company would go out of business. All businesses negotiate, it's what they do.

    As an individual who was quiet happy to be self-pay, I'm very aware that some health care providers will negotiate costs of medical care. Of course, I no longer have the choice to legally be self-pay do I?

    Personally, I think that medical insurance is great. I just think that "pre-paid" medical care leads to higher health care costs overall.

    Hopefully, they will continue to allow high deductible HSA accounts.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    My dad ran through 33 units of blood in about 12 hours.

    He bled to death

    Anyhoo.... yes, the employer pays part o the cost of the health insurance as part o the employee's compensation. The employee covers the rest. Why does the employer determine the coverage?
    I am sorry about your daddy. That is an awful blow to take.

    The employer gets to choose because he/she has to take the total amount of the premium, figure out what his percentage that has to come out of his pocket will be, divide the rest between the number of covered employees, and then see if it is affordable. If not, he/she has to go back and make cuts to make it affordable. Sometimes those decisions are not popular (hence where we are) but they are made so that everyone can have coverage-in most cases, not all, so don't get all het up about that statement.

    I don't think it is right to ask you to pay for MY all inclusive coverage. I would never come up to someone and say "oh you have better a better horse and tack than I do, and I am underprivileged, so you should have to contribute $X more dollars per paycheck to pay for me to have better stuff, even though I have the basics"
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown



  7. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by bauhaus View Post
    What are you whining about exactly? I don't understand this crybaby attitude that because they don't have insurance through their jobs, this is somehow relevant to the conversation about contrception coverage. I see it over and over, usually from so-called "Christians" who act anything but.

    The whole reason behind this argument is that Americans who have empathy for others WANT you to have health insurance that you can afford, and we want you to be guaranteed to be covered by it no matter how sick you get. No more lifetime caps and no more dropping you because you get sick, and no more denying you because of preexisting conditions. And as long as health insurance IS tied to employment in the US rather than having a single payer system we can all buy into with or without supplemental insurance on top of it, we want you to be able to receive ALL medication prescribed by your doctor without interference, covered exactly the same regardless of what it is for. How the Americans who are against this idea can call themselves "Christian" is beyond me (not saying you do - I have no idea if you do or not).
    that is all well and good, but tell me something. Where is all the money going to come from? Some people have no more to give, and don't want to take from others.

    As for the "good Christians" not wanting to help others. NONSENSE. My church does a lot for the disadvantaged and I doubt seriously that more than 1 or 2 could come up with $500 in a week's notice without having to either not pay a bill or sell something. I know of a lot of Christians that do give until it hurts. We aren't perfect-we don't claim to be. We are a work in progress.
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown



  8. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Simply because he doesn't have the same ideas as you do.

    lovely.
    no LMH. I loathe IGNORANCE. In any form. There is no excuse for this type of ignorance of the facts of medicine in this day and age. He has access to google just like you and I do. Oh sure he can BELIEVE whatever he wants but that doesn't make it true. The morning after pill does not kill babies. It does not provide an abortion. No matter what he believes those are the facts:

    Not to mention our taxes are going to pay for his day in court so to speak and no I don't appreciate that at all. Corporations are not people and his antiquated incorrect beliefs should not cost us money to disprove.

    And if mama ain't happy, no one is happy LOL


    9 members found this post helpful.

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheval convert View Post
    If you force a person whose religious faith informs them that birth control or abortion is sinful, then YOU are forcing them to commit a sin. This is where those without faith have an issue - they do not comprehend nor understand the concept of sin. And to force a person to commit a sin is certainly an infringement on that person's religious freedom. (And for someone to understand the concept of sin and think there is nothing wrong with compelling a person to commit a sin, this is morally repugnant.)

    Because a company does not provide birth control does not mean they are denying an employee's access or right to it, it means they are not paying for birth control. The employee is still able to purchase birth control for herself and the owner of the company has not been compelled to violate their religious beliefs.

    (For the record, I disagree with the Catholic church on their stance on birth control but I respect their right to their religious viewpoint and I do not believe the government has a right to contravene the church's faith formation.)
    Thank you!! Beautifully put!
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Simply because he doesn't have the same ideas as you do.

    lovely.
    Has nothing to do with having the same ideas. The morning after pill does not work if a woman is already pregnant. It does nothing. It is not an abortion pill. HL's owner (and you, apparently) are having a hard time grasping this concept.
    "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheval convert View Post
    If you force a person whose religious faith informs them that birth control or abortion is sinful, then YOU are forcing them to commit a sin. This is where those without faith have an issue - they do not comprehend nor understand the concept of sin. And to force a person to commit a sin is certainly an infringement on that person's religious freedom. (And for someone to understand the concept of sin and think there is nothing wrong with compelling a person to commit a sin, this is morally repugnant.)
    This is indeed true. However corporations are not people with religious beliefs. People form corporations to separate their business ventures from their personal lives.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #452
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    Jan. 26, 2006
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    since Hobby Lobby deals in interstate commerce it does fall under the obama driven health care acts (law) .... but Hobby Lobby could do just what Mrs Baird's Bread did... terminate all employees then give those employees the opportunity to bid on getting their jobs back as independent contractors


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkerbruin View Post
    Has nothing to do with having the same ideas. The morning after pill does not work if a woman is already pregnant. It does nothing. It is not an abortion pill. HL's owner (and you, apparently) are having a hard time grasping this concept.
    I am not having a hard time grasping anything. If it does not abort, then it is back to being BC...in any case this creates an issue for someone practicing within the Catholic religion.

    As a poster so eloquently put above, this places the owner in the position of contributing to sinful behavior. If you don't believe then not an issue...but if you do it is.

    You and others seem to be having the 'grasping concept.'

    No one is FORCING someone to apply to work at HL...if you do not like the position or how they would like to have the right to limit the insurance they offer, apply elsewhere.



  14. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by clanter View Post
    since Hobby Lobby deals in interstate commerce it does fall under the obama driven health care acts (law) .... but Hobby Lobby could do just what Mrs Baird's Bread did... terminate all employees then give those employees the opportunity to bid on getting their jobs back as independent contractors
    They could. Look what happened to the owners of Red Lobster and Olive Garden when they tried cutting back employees hours to avoid ObamaCare. Sales down 37% in the last quarter.

    As an owner, he could, but his customers just might object.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    They could. Look what happened to the owners of Red Lobster and Olive Garden when they tried cutting back employees hours to avoid ObamaCare. Sales down 37% in the last quarter.

    As an owner, he could, but his customers just might object.
    The the free market would handle the situation.

    No need for government!



  16. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    I am not having a hard time grasping anything. If it does not abort, then it is back to being BC...in any case this creates an issue for someone practicing within the Catholic religion.

    As a poster so eloquently put above, this places the owner in the position of contributing to sinful behavior. If you don't believe then not an issue...but if you do it is.

    You and others seem to be having the 'grasping concept.'

    No one is FORCING someone to apply to work at HL...if you do not like the position or how they would like to have the right to limit the insurance they offer, apply elsewhere.
    If I am not terribly mistaken, HL has no issue providing other types of birth control but does not want to cover "abortion inducing drugs" which they believe includes the morning after pill. It does not.

    What is up with Catholics and BC, anyway?
    "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #457
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    I don't support Hobby Lobby or other corporations like them, like Darden Restaurants. I have never been in a Hobby Lobby and I won't start. Darden Restaurants, Papa Johns and select Denny's as well as Applebees. Let not forget Chick-fil-A. Corporate CEOs want to take a stand trying to force their social & political values on the public will pay for it.



  18. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaymare View Post
    I'll try once again.

    An insurance company is paid premiums from a group of individuals. If they want to continue to offer insurance, the sum of premiums they charge each member of the group has to be greater than the amount of medical expenses that the group accrues.

    Therefore, by definition insurance premiums are more than hospital care, or the insurance company would go out of business.

    Everyone with insurance pays a premium, but not everyone with insurance needs hospital care.
    Not strictly true. Health plans buy "reinsurance" from other insurance companies, to protect themselves from catastrophic claims or a large number of claims. Reinsurance is sold on a "per member" basis or a "per group" basis. So, if one member has claims in excess of, say, $250,000, the reinsurance company picks up the excess. Or, if a group has claims in excess of, for example, $2,000,000, the reinsurer picks up the excess.

    The reinsurance products are basically spreading the risk beyond any individual insurance company or health plan.

    In addition, non-profit health insurers, like BCBS, are required to keep a certain amount in reserve, to play claims in excess of premiums collected. During a "good" year, where premiums are in excess of claims, they bank some in their reserve, they draw on it during "bad years". The state determines what minimum amount they must keep in that reserve fund.



  19. #459
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    Hobby Lobby. Do you support their position on Obamacare?


    Yes. Absolutely.

    If you do not like it, shop elsewhere. Vote with your dollars.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnalli View Post
    that is all well and good, but tell me something. Where is all the money going to come from? Some people have no more to give, and don't want to take from others.

    As for the "good Christians" not wanting to help others. NONSENSE. My church does a lot for the disadvantaged and I doubt seriously that more than 1 or 2 could come up with $500 in a week's notice without having to either not pay a bill or sell something. I know of a lot of Christians that do give until it hurts. We aren't perfect-we don't claim to be. We are a work in progress.
    Once we go over the fiscal cliff, part of the money will come from those who can most afford to pay in the form of higher taxes. About a week into the new year, tax cuts for the middle class and poor who cannot afford to pay as much will be introduced and hopefully passed. Obviously, it's difficult and complicated and there is no perfect solution but this one is a step in the right direction.

    Good for your church, assuming it is an a very modest building in a working class part of town where real estate is inexpensive and the maximum amount of money can go towards helping other people rather than in operating costs. I never said there were no good Christians who didn't want to help others, just that the posters on this board (and anywhere else) who call themselves Christian - and yet judge others who are struggling - need to stop thinking of themselves as good people, let alone good Christians.



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