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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    No, it doesn't, really (sorry!), b/c I would hate to think that my employer has any right whatsoever to dictate my health care choices, especially when in so doing, that employer is violating a federal LAW.

    ETA: Moreover, I don't understand HOW that is not religious discrimination in your mind. It is FORCING employees to ACCEPT their employer's religious views.
    So you're saying the employer's religious beliefs are less important than the employee's?
    *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Do you people not understand the difference between health insurance coverage and medical expenses???

    I am not going to school you, stay dumb.
    I see many bills for hospital care includig Mr. Stolen's surgery bill from last summer's emergency. Stay dumb and numb Noms.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaymare View Post
    By definition insurance premiums are more than hospital care, or the insurance company would go out of business.

    Everyone with insurance pays a premium, but not everyone with insurance needs hospital care.
    Source for that non-logical gem ? crickets are really out tonight with the Obama haters...


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    In a truly FREE society, that would be just fine. However, that level of freedom threatens those who can't make their way without government paving it for them.
    It's true.... Businesses could not make their way without government paving the way... Literally by paving the streets their buildings are on, providing a police force to protect them from criminal activity, regulating food and air quality so their employees don't get sick, subsidizing research that many businesses benefit from, offering them tax breaks to help give them a leg up. The list goes on and on!


    8 members found this post helpful.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Source for that non-logical gem ? crickets are really out tonight with the Obama haters...
    you are such a treasure to this BB.



  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Silence........I know a wonderfull mom who lost her house, her marriage and almost got laid off , she had a young child with developmental problems. Insurance claimed "pre-existing condition" so they took "individual responsibility" and paid for her cognitive therapy. Child is developing fine, the parents lost their home and filed for chapter 11. They divorced but hey, all is well child received the help she needed by parents losing their home.

    How is this OK with you posters objecting to "Obama care" ? What makes this right and just in this society ?
    What happened to your friend is terrible and you are right, should not happen. The way to solve this would be a true universal healthcare system like Canada, Sweden and several other countries have. I consider myself a conservative and very pro small government but I would vote yes in a heartbeat for a universal healthcare system.

    Maybe it stems from me growing up in a Eastern European country, that was very poor and beat down, but still quickly put together a system to take care of the basic health needs of it's citizens shortly after the Soviets moved out and still managing to rapidly expand and build.

    I do oppose Obamacare because of the complete mess it is. This ridiculous fines individuals and companies have to pay for not having or providing insurance, the insane premiums insurance companies will be able to charge because everyone will be required to have coverage, pre-existing conditions or not. It seems like someone just slapped this legislation up and it was quickly passed because of the campaign promise of healthcare reform. I guess it's great that I can stay on my parents health insurance while I search for my first "big girl" job out of college, but wouldn't it be great to not have to worry about it at all?? Not worrying about premiums, deductibles, which treatments will be approved or if your medication will be covered?

    Several countries in the world have healthcare systems like this in place and it hasn't spun them into poverty and turmoil, I really fail to see as to why a system like this would not work in the USA. As someone said before, we will adjust ourselves to survive with Obamacare, and we could do the same with a true universal healthcare system.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #407
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    [QUOTE=Noms;6752421]you are such a treasure to this BB.[/QUOTE

    So asking for facts pisses you off ? Got it. By the way, no one has addressed how we got here for healthcare reform but hey, blame people asking for facts....it is so much easier than addressing a major issue with facts....


    5 members found this post helpful.

  8. #408
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    Apr. 9, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Source for that non-logical gem ? crickets are really out tonight with the Obama haters...
    I'll try once again.

    An insurance company is paid premiums from a group of individuals. If they want to continue to offer insurance, the sum of premiums they charge each member of the group has to be greater than the amount of medical expenses that the group accrues.

    Therefore, by definition insurance premiums are more than hospital care, or the insurance company would go out of business.

    Everyone with insurance pays a premium, but not everyone with insurance needs hospital care.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #409
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    Aug. 21, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    No, it doesn't, really (sorry!), b/c I would hate to think that my employer has any right whatsoever to dictate my health care choices, especially when in so doing, that employer is violating a federal LAW.

    ETA: Moreover, I don't understand HOW that is not religious discrimination in your mind. It is FORCING employees to ACCEPT their employer's religious views.
    If you force a person whose religious faith informs them that birth control or abortion is sinful, then YOU are forcing them to commit a sin. This is where those without faith have an issue - they do not comprehend nor understand the concept of sin. And to force a person to commit a sin is certainly an infringement on that person's religious freedom. (And for someone to understand the concept of sin and think there is nothing wrong with compelling a person to commit a sin, this is morally repugnant.)

    Because a company does not provide birth control does not mean they are denying an employee's access or right to it, it means they are not paying for birth control. The employee is still able to purchase birth control for herself and the owner of the company has not been compelled to violate their religious beliefs.

    (For the record, I disagree with the Catholic church on their stance on birth control but I respect their right to their religious viewpoint and I do not believe the government has a right to contravene the church's faith formation.)


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmedHope View Post
    What happened to your friend is terrible and you are right, should not happen. The way to solve this would be a true universal healthcare system like Canada, Sweden and several other countries have. I consider myself a conservative and very pro small government but I would vote yes in a heartbeat for a universal healthcare system.

    Maybe it stems from me growing up in a Eastern European country, that was very poor and beat down, but still quickly put together a system to take care of the basic health needs of it's citizens shortly after the Soviets moved out and still managing to rapidly expand and build.

    I do oppose Obamacare because of the complete mess it is. This ridiculous fines individuals and companies have to pay for not having or providing insurance, the insane premiums insurance companies will be able to charge because everyone will be required to have coverage, pre-existing conditions or not. It seems like someone just slapped this legislation up and it was quickly passed because of the campaign promise of healthcare reform. I guess it's great that I can stay on my parents health insurance while I search for my first "big girl" job out of college, but wouldn't it be great to not have to worry about it at all?? Not worrying about premiums, deductibles, which treatments will be approved or if your medication will be covered?

    Several countries in the world have healthcare systems like this in place and it hasn't spun them into poverty and turmoil, I really fail to see as to why a system like this would not work in the USA. As someone said before, we will adjust ourselves to survive with Obamacare, and we could do the same with a true universal healthcare system.
    Affirmed Hope, you may very well be right, but look at the crazy response here to Birth Control or really the morning after pill. Universal Heathcare would have been this response times 100. The US needed to start, and luckily we had a president who was a constitutional lawyer and worked out a plan that will hopefully resolve this huge problem.

    I have gained nothing personally from healthcare reform, it is just this idea that people die in the US from lack of healthcare that makes many of us supportive of this solution. Also, the bankruptcy stories are real and a part of this crazy idea that individuals should shoulder healthcare themselves. I still do not have any response to that question, so it seems those that oppose healthcare reform just cannot answer the hard questions...


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #411
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    May. 2, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by bauhaus View Post
    So many stupid, irrelevant generalizations which the social conservatives try to use to make their desire to inflict their religious beliefs on others seem more reasonable.....

    Hobby Lobby is a business operating in the US, as such, it has to comply with US law. There are no laws requiring businesses to be open on Sunday or any other day. If there were, Hobby Lobby would have to comply with it. US law now states that contraception will be covered by insurance provided by employers. Hobby Lobby has to comply with that. They don't get to choose which laws to obey.

    If they think they can get away with it, by your logic that it should work both ways, they should only hire women who won't use contraception. This would solve their issue with having to provide it, because no one would ever use it.

    How would you feel about the owner declaring that he will only hire good Christian women who will agree to never use contraception while employed at his company, and if they do they can be fired?
    So, now the government can force companies to adhere to laws that go against its religious beliefs? By forcing companies to provide the Plan B pill, or Viagra, the feds are imposing it's beliefs on companies. Yes, it works BOTH WAYS. Do I agree that insurance pay for Viagra and not BC? No way. In fact, there was a lawsuit involving a railroad company whose insurance company, United Healthcare, paid for Viagra but not BC. The women that sued, lost. It sucks.
    However, I firmly believe that people should be personally responsible when choosing whom they decide to work for. Heck, I need a breast reduction, badly. But, my ins. company requires my weight be within range of my BMI. It is not though I am very fit. Am I supposed to throw a fit and demand my employer change things to adhere to my healthcare needs? I have a choice; reduce my weight to match my BMI or.....not.
    "When a president can pick and choose which laws to follow and which to ignore, he is no longer a president. " Ted Cruz


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #412
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by bauhaus View Post
    It's true.... Businesses could not make their way without government paving the way... Literally by paving the streets their buildings are on, providing a police force to protect them from criminal activity, regulating food and air quality so their employees don't get sick, subsidizing research that many businesses benefit from, offering them tax breaks to help give them a leg up. The list goes on and on!
    If you think for a moment that private enterprise cannot create what it needs to survive and thrive without government intervention, you are sadly lacking in your knowledge of history.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaymare View Post
    I'll try once again.

    An insurance company is paid premiums from a group of individuals. If they want to continue to offer insurance, the sum of premiums they charge each member of the group has to be greater than the amount of medical expenses that the group accrues.

    Therefore, by definition insurance premiums are more than hospital care, or the insurance company would go out of business.

    Everyone with insurance pays a premium, but not everyone with insurance needs hospital care.
    So what I am asking again, facts that it costs more to pay premuims under Obamacare than to pay for the non-payers who have no insurance getting medical care. Clear ?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    If you think for a moment that private enterprise cannot create what it needs to survive and thrive without government intervention, you are sadly lacking in your knowledge of history.
    How so ? You live in a city that has businesses build public roads, pay police, pay fire departments, pay water suppliers, sewage ? Would love to know where that City is ?


    6 members found this post helpful.

  15. #415
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    Oct. 15, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    So what I am asking again, facts that it costs more to pay premuims under Obamacare than to pay for the non-payers who have no insurance getting medical care. Clear ?
    Is your Google not working?
    *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05



  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    How so ? You live in a city that has businesses build public roads, pay police, pay fire departments, pay water suppliers, sewage ? Would love to know where that City is ?
    As a matter of fact I do. It's called, my taxes. Those government coffers don't fill themselves.
    *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    If you think for a moment that private enterprise cannot create what it needs to survive and thrive without government intervention, you are sadly lacking in your knowledge of history.
    That came straight from the Obams "You did not build it speech" The most epic fail speech in the history and that idiot got reelected.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #418
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    "Conservatives have been jumping on comments President Obama made in Roanoke, Va., in which he said “if you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.”
    As an example, read what the Heritage Foundation posted at its blog that the comment was a “slap in the face to hard-working Americans conveyed Obama’s belief that it takes a village – a heavily subsidized village – to create that venture you’re profiting from.”
    A Romney campaign spokeswoman told Fox the comment was “insulting” to small business owners.
    Get more pure politics at ABC News.com/Politics and a lighter take on the news at OTUSNews.com
    The president’s argument, which is similar to one made by Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren, revolves around the idea that business people need the infrastructure provided by the government in order to succeed.
    Here’s the full context of what he said:
    We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …
    There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
    If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
    The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.
    So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...nt-build-that/

    Darn FACTS! And it's word for word, too!


    8 members found this post helpful.

  19. #419
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    There are no "facts" about the actual cost of Obamacare, as it hasn't been fully implemented yet. Where to you suggest I go to find them??



  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiningwizard255 View Post
    As a matter of fact I do. It's called, my taxes. Those government coffers don't fill themselves.
    No the comment is that business paid for those. Not your taxes.


    2 members found this post helpful.

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