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  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    What the hell are you talking about? She just posted about a court case.

    A court case isn't about many people's opinions, it's about a judge's or judges' opinions.
    WRONG. she didnt



  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Don't let truth or facts hold you back!
    Why dont you go look up the number of Executive Orders that Obama has written VS ALL OTHER PRESIDENTS COMBINED.. every american should s@#t their pants.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Still no reason for extorted benefits from other people.
    OK so this 21-26 YO uninsured loser skids on some black ice, slams into a tree, racks up a $half million in medical expenses and dies. Who's gonna pay?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #324
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    Why would you assume that it is the responsibility of anyone but the injured party?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    It's interesting that the posts here fall pretty much into two camps. One camp starts with the perspective that responsibility for care lies with the individual. The second camp starts with the premise that basic responsibility lies with the gov, company or some other entity.

    As a result, everyone is convinced that someone is forcing their beliefs on someone else either by refusing to pay for bc or for mandating bc be paid for. Starting from such totally different perspectives, no one is going to change the others mind.


    This issue lies at the heart of almost all our political issues today. What has made this country special is the basic premise that with personal freedom, comes personal responsibility. It concerns me that that so many want the freedom, but no longer take personal responsibility.

    Reasonable folks can disagree and there are many reasonable folks on this board. My opinion is not meant to disparage anyone...it's just my opinion.
    What we are talking about is healthcare and "personal responsibility" would mean

    1. Buy your own health insurance
    2. Paying for healthcare yourself without insurance

    These two options that we have been living with created situations of many people not qualifying for health insurance. Pre-existing conditions, and conditions that health insurance companies refused to cover. Paying for your own healthcare works only if you are always healthy or extremely wealthy.

    I support changing a system that had major flaws that resulted in many families going bankrupt from medical bills that:
    1. Were not covered pre-existing conditions
    2. maximum benefits paid out
    3. No ability to obtain health insurance

    So I do disagree with your statement of camps one. responsibility with individual two. responsibility lies with gov. company or some other entity

    We tried it as an individual and it did not work.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    Why would you assume that it is the responsibility of anyone but the injured party?
    jr, welcome to the party,,,, you are swimming in the pool of liberal thinkgin. So logic is not welcomed.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    Why would you assume that it is the responsibility of anyone but the injured party?
    Did you notice in my hypothetical situation that the injured party DIED?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #328
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    Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc. v. Sebelius, 870 F. Supp. 2d 1278, 1294 (W.D. Okla. 2012)

    http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/dis...denying_pi.pdf

    See the bottom of page 19 of the Westlaw version.
    Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson



  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    http://news.heartland.org/editorial/...nder-obamacare

    The argument the administration advanced successfully in the Hobby Lobby case is a particularly troublesome one for believers of all faiths who operate under the assumption that they can use their moral principles to guide the way their place of business spends money. According to the administration's legal arguments, the family that owns Hobby Lobby is not protected by the First Amendment's "free exercise" clause because “Hobby Lobby is a for-profit, secular employer, and a secular entity by definition does not exercise religion.”

    FWIW, as an employee I have been required as a condition of employment, to sign a non compete agreement and to allow my picture to be used in company advertising. Other companies require uniforms or drug tests not to mention unconsionable mandatory OT
    Exactly, I am required to work 2-4 hours every weekend for free, I can be drug tested, I cannot work in my field for any compensation (I do help people for free) and my work is owned by the corporation.



  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Why dont you go look up the number of Executive Orders that Obama has written VS ALL OTHER PRESIDENTS COMBINED.. every american should s@#t their pants.
    I did
    http://www.factcheck.org/2012/09/oba...cutive-orders/
    look it up, that is
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #331
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    Carol! Facts?? You can't argue with facts! Hyperbole and hystrionics is the way to go!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Carol! Facts?? You can't argue with facts! Hyperbole and hystrionics is the way to go!
    I can't help it, I'm a geek
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #333
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    And I raised 3 kids. I check
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #334
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    Maybe we should have threads where people have facts to back up what they say, and threads where people just must be right because they are vehement, use a lot of !!!!!!'s and smiley icons.

    You've just got to BELIEVE because they KNOW!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Headdesk* Gah,,, you guys really need to understand the regulatory and EO world.... Looking up a number in a website is BS.

    The powers that Obama has weilded under his EO pen far reaches the number of pieces of paper.. Ugh, we are really in trouble, if you dont have a basic understanding of our govt.



  16. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Headdesk* Gah,,, you guys really need to understand the regulatory and EO world.... Looking up a number in a website is BS.

    The powers that Obama has weilded under his EO pen far reaches the number of pieces of paper.. Ugh, we are really in trouble, if you dont have a basic understanding of our govt.
    Umm, yeah, more Koolaid?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  17. #337
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    First, the deceased, if at all possible, should have paid for insurance...even if catastrophic only.

    Second, the deceased's estate should first go to settle debts, including medical.

    Third, assuming that all available funds fall short, the provider takes the loss which is built into their business model. Has worked that way for decades.

    Of courses the AC act was supposed to solve that issue and brings costs down. Now, my personal insurance has gone up at a faster rate AND I'm getting a4 plus percent tax increase on top from the gov once all is said and done to pay for it. So as far as I can tell, the cure is worse than the illness.
    Last edited by jr; Dec. 30, 2012 at 08:34 PM. Reason: Spelling


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Maybe we should have threads where people have facts to back up what they say, and threads where people just must be right because they are vehement, use a lot of !!!!!!'s and smiley icons.

    You've just got to BELIEVE because they KNOW!
    Totally agree, these arguments seem to turn into a bitch fest with no facts. Which is fine, but not something I can get behind without facts.

    I will say that with all the rain we have had and a proposal due Wed. I love researching the 1st and 2nd amendment stuff...



  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Umm, yeah, more Koolaid?
    You dont know what EOs he has signed or regulations hes promulgated do you? Thats ok I already know the answer is NO. He is the REGULATION PRESIDENT,,, ask me how i know.,



  20. #340
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    Well sounds like the injuction was declined and if they want to continue we all can take this up another day.


    However, some may want that bitch fest.



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