[TarheelJD]

SV, this rebuts your earlier post #245 regarding the SCOTUS finding the individual mandate consitutional, which has NOTHING to do with HL's issue.

I am pretty sure stolen virtue got that from the flow of the conversation. I doubt the "nany nanny boo boo" post was necessary, and really doesn't contribute to the civility (such as it is) of this thread.

[carolprudm]

The closest Jesus came to this was when he said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s"

This was in reference to taxes not business.

How about when he kicked the businessmen out of the temple?

[horseymum]

Ok.....so i realize that I am jumping in late here and will also ask a stupid Canadian question......

How is it that Obamacare is forcing the employer to pay for prescription drugs? Even though we have a single payer (read the government) health care system here in Canada our drugs are covered by the employer, as are dental and vision care. On the other hand the government has made the decision that birth control should be available to everyone regardless of employment benefit package. Consequently we have oral contraceptives available at the cost of about 3$ per month in Ontario at any public health unit. However, any other type of pill, morning after, or a chemical IUD for instance is not subsidised by the government and as such must fall under your employers supplemental coverage.

I guess I am trying to understand why this is such a hot button issue in the USA.
I get that all my tax dollars do not by definition only go towards things that I support (I am not a big fan of the military industrial complex yet I get that a portion of my tax dollars pay for fighter jets). Does this bill mandate that a percentage of all drugs must be paid for by the employer or only birth control?

[TarheelJD]

I'd like to see a list of the exceptions that have been made to the Act so far -- I have heard of some here and there. I wonder if there is a consolidated list somewhere?

[twotrudoc]

I am pretty sure stolenvirtue got that from the flow of the conversation. I doubt the "nany nanny boo boo" post was necessary, and really doesn't contribute to the civility (such as it is) of this thread.

If I were addressing stolenvirtue I would have said "nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doodoo" because she rarely contributes anything except to try and skew or belittle anything that doesn't flow with her secular liberal progressive agenda

IN DOODOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stolen virtue]

I don't have time to research this now, but I believe that most of the Act was upheld by SCOTUS in connection with the constitutional challenges brought by individual states - none of which involved the freedom of religion issue. I don't believe SCOTUS has had a chance to rule on any religious based constitutional challenges to date.

Please, someone jump in and correct me if this is inaccurate.

No you are correct. My post was in response to something Noms posted.

The court challenge I think is not going to go well for corporations. What I suspect is the "Corporations are people" argument won't be enough here.

[SaturdayNightLive]

If I were addressing stolenvirtue I would have said "nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doodoo" because she rarely contributes anything except to try and skew or belittle anything that doesn't flow with her secular liberal progressive agenda

IN DOODOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you drunk?

[LexInVA]

If you lived that close to Canadians, you might seem a little off too.

[TarheelJD]

If I were addressing stolenvirtue I would have said "nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doodoo" because she rarely contributes anything except to try and skew or belittle anything that doesn't flow with her secular liberal progressive agenda

IN DOODOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, I see that you two are familiar with each other!

[stolen virtue]

If I were addressing stolenvirtue I would have said "nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doodoo" because she rarely contributes anything except to try and skew or belittle anything that doesn't flow with her secular liberal progressive agenda

IN DOODOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that I see the mensa poster has arrived, I will go out and walk my horses in the mud. It certainly is more thought provoking than the above post.

[minnie]

Then, instead of providing healthcare as a benefit, the com

pany can pay the fine if it has 50 or more employeea, or if less than the required number of employees to need to provide healthcare, employee/employer can negotiate a salary allowing employee to provide own insurance. Simple.

*waves to noms*

[carolprudm]

Saw this on a "Friend's" Facebook page just now, and thought it would be an interesting addition to the conversation here

****************************************

Letter from Hobby Lobby:

A Letter from Hobby Lobby Stores CEO
By David Green, the founder and CEO of Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.

When my family and I started our company 40 years ago, we
were working out of a garage on a $600 bank loan, assembling miniature picture frames. Our first retail store wasn't much bigger than most people's living rooms, but we had faith that we would succeed if we lived and worked according to God's word. From there,Hobby Lobby has become one of the nation's largest arts and crafts retailers, with more than 500 locations in 41 states. Our children grew up into fine business leaders, and today we run Hobby Lobby together, as a family.

We're Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I've always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God's laws, and (2) to focus on people more than money. And that's what we've tried to do. We close early so our employees can see their families at night. We keep our stores closed on Sundays, one of the week's biggest shopping days, so that our workers and their families can enjoy a day of rest. We believe that it is by God's grace that Hobby Lobby has endured, and he has blessed us and our employees. We've not only added jobs in a weak economy, we've raised wages for the past four years in a row. Our full-time employees start at 80% above minimum wage.

But now, our government threatens to change all of that. A new government health care mandate says that our family business MUST provide what I believe are abortion-causing drugs as part of our health insurance. Being Christians, we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill. We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs. It goes against the Biblical principles on which we have run this company since day one. If we refuse to comply, we could face $1.3 million PER DAY in government fines.

Our government threatens to fine job creators in a bad economy. Our government threatens to fine a company that's raised wages four years running. Our government threatens to fine a family for running its business according to its beliefs. It's not right. I know people will say we ought to follow the rules; that it's the same for everybody. But that's not true. The government has exempted thousands of companies from this mandate, for reasons of convenience or cost. But it won't exempt them for reasons of religious belief.

So, Hobby Lobby � and my family � are forced to make a choice. With great reluctance, we filed a lawsuit today, represented by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, asking a federal court to stop this mandate before it hurts our business. We don't like to go running into court, but we no longer have a choice. We believe people are more important than the bottom line and that honoring God is more important than turning a profit.

My family has lived the American dream. We want to continue growing our company and providing great jobs for thousands of employees, but the government is going to make that much more difficult. The government is forcing us to choose between following our faith and following the law. I say that's a choice no American � and no American business � should have to make.
The government cannot force you to follow laws that go against your fundamental religious belief. They have exempted thousands of companies but will not except Christian organizations including the Catholic church.

Since you will not see this covered in any of the liberal media, pass this on to all your contacts.
Sincerely,
David Green, CEO and Founder of Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.

It really doesn't matter what HL proclaims about their beliefs. Their beliefs are the Green family's personal business. HL is a CORPORATION, its own entity, owned by a family. Corporations do not have a right to religious beliefs

[twotrudoc]

I'd like to see a list of the exceptions that have been made to the Act so far -- I have heard of some here and there. I wonder if there is a consolidated list somewhere?

Mostly unions, insurance companies, etc..

http://ifawebnews.com/2012/02/07/mcd...rom-obamacare/

• McDonald’s
• United Federation of Teachers
• AARP
• Jack in the Box
• Teamsters locals nationwide
• Pavers and Road Builders District Council
• Indiana Area UFCW Union Locals and Retail Food Employers
• Waffle House
• Nevada
• New Hampshire
• Maine
• Aetna
• Cigna
• Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey
• Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida
• Universal Orlando
• Aspen Skiing Co.
• Ashley Furniture/Homestore
• PepsiCo
• Downstream Casino Resort
• Firekeepers Casino
• Bill Miller Bar-B-Q Enterprises
• Panera
• AMF Bowling
• Ruby Tuesday
• Foot Locker

Complete list from the Fed--

http://cciio.cms.gov/resources/files...or_waiver.html

[Noms]

If I were addressing stolenvirtue I would have said "nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doodoo" because she rarely contributes anything except to try and skew or belittle anything that doesn't flow with her secular liberal progressive agenda

IN DOODOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now lets not lower ourselves... SV loves to call me names,,,, i could care less.

[twotrudoc]

Now that I see the mensa poster has arrived, I will go out and walk my horses in the mud. It certainly is more thought provoking than the above post.

Don't let the door hit ya! *waving*

I am liking your post for your exit

[TarheelJD]

Mostly unions, insurance companies, etc..

http://ifawebnews.com/2012/02/07/mcd...rom-obamacare/

• McDonald’s
• United Federation of Teachers
• AARP
• Jack in the Box
• Teamsters locals nationwide
• Pavers and Road Builders District Council
• Indiana Area UFCW Union Locals and Retail Food Employers
• Waffle House
• Nevada
• New Hampshire
• Maine
• Aetna
• Cigna
• Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey
• Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida
• Universal Orlando
• Aspen Skiing Co.
• Ashley Furniture/Homestore
• PepsiCo
• Downstream Casino Resort
• Firekeepers Casino
• Bill Miller Bar-B-Q Enterprises
• Panera
• AMF Bowling
• Ruby Tuesday
• Foot Locker

Complete list from the Fed--

http://cciio.cms.gov/resources/files...or_waiver.html

Thanks - will check this out later!

[twotrudoc]

Now lets not lower ourselves... SV loves to call me names,,,, i could care less.

We have a special relationship

[Noms]

Then, instead of providing healthcare as a benefit, the com

pany can pay the fine if it has 50 or more employeea, or if less than the required number of employees to need to provide healthcare, employee/employer can negotiate a salary allowing employee to provide own insurance. Simple.

*waves to noms*

I added a few more choices, lets see what the end up doing??? In any event, the fact that the Govt is forcing this crap on business is just ^&^%.


Follow the law - sounds like their convictions are stong enough that this will not be their choice.

They could defy and pay the penalty - this would cause them to go out of business.

They could sell the business

OR, they could drop all employees to below the number of hours so that Obamacare would not apply,, maybe they could pay a little more so that employees would be on their own for insurance then go out into the public exchanges.

[cowboymom]

DH's employer (of 50-100 people) cancelled their health insurance in September... without notice. Said the premiums went up and they couldn't afford it. Was supposed to be reinstated first of every month since and it wasn't. It wasn't the greatest insurance in the first place and DH had just become eligible to go on it (having worked there for a year) and *poof* no insurance. No word on when we might have any of it....

Purchasing it is extremely costly for us... we're squeezed pretty hard and hoping nobody needs to go to the doctor. Fun times.

[Altag]

At least one poster mentioned that there were no other craft shops nearby as options, so, here are a few that you can order from online:

Michaels:
http://www.michaels.com/

AC Moore:
http://www.acmoore.com/

Pearl Fine Art Supplies:
http://www.pearlpaint.com/

Joanne's:
http://www.joann.com/crafts/basic-craft-supplies/

Dick Blick art supplies:
http://www.dickblick.com/

See? Lots of alternatives to HL.