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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by TarheelJD View Post
    If SCOTUS finds that there is a compelling government interest in the healthcare realm, and that Obamacare is narrowly tailored to address that interest without unnecessarily abridging constitutional rights, then it is done. The law will be applicable, and HL and other companies who oppose it on whatever religious argument they have will have to comply.
    All discussion aside, that pretty much sums it up.

    And SCOTUS falls will be determined by the individual perspective and opinion of each justice.

    With that in mind, chances are pretty strong it will be upheld and life will go on.



  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    StolenVirtue, unless you are a constitutional lawyer who can back up that post, I will continue to argue that you are wrong.
    Delusion is grand for you. Really anyone with an 8th grade education knows there are limitations to the 1st & 2nd amendments and they cannot be taken literally. You can argue, but it is simply sad that some people don't know much about their own rights in this country.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by TarheelJD View Post
    If SCOTUS finds that there is a compelling government interest in the healthcare realm, and that Obamacare is narrowly tailored to address that interest without unnecessarily abridging constitutional rights, then it is done. The law will be applicable, and HL and other companies who oppose it on whatever religious argument they have will have to comply.
    I should add that the analysis above is limited to the religious freedom challenges to the law. There could be additional challenges to Obamacare that we haven't discussed here, such as the contract clause, which could ultimately affect the law's constitutionality.
    Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #224
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    Apr. 26, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaymare View Post
    The closest Jesus came to this was when he said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s"

    This was in reference to taxes not business.
    It also meant more than that...Jesus lived as a radical who challenged the status quo - specifically in the way people led their lives in adherence to the current laws & religious laws. Pharisees & priests were always trying to trap him with interpreting the law. If the abhorred radical right actually read the red letters, they would understand that it is the way in which one lives his/her life that brings people to Christ...not the way in which one struggles to force religious practices down someone's throat. Seems folks are still trying to use the law to force their personal wants on the "rest." But - Folks gone do what folks gone do regardless of whatever law is passed & consequences are rarely an effective deterrent (calendar call in your local court will tell you that as will a glance into any correctional institution)...however, that takes us down another trail.

    Romans 13:1-7... Whether the governing bodies in place are Christian or not, it is a Christian's obligation to follow the law. We could argue the what-ifs of this scripture all day but the spirit of the scripture is there and a reasonable interpretation suffices.

    This can of worms compels me to respond from a variety of perspectives but there probably ain't enough time or space. I work as a youth pastor so my perspective on this whole issue is probably a little different than most. I don't like being lumped into the evangelical right b/c though I am a Follower of Christ, I'm not one to swing my Bible about like a sword wielded by some self-righteous, bull horn toting, doomsdayer...but I do follow the Red Letters as best as I can. Green can follow the law and then take the money he would spend on fines and apply it better by going into neighborhoods and establishing health care clinics where young women/girls can access health care and birth control.

    We all make mistakes, pregnancies from rape happen (not a lot but they do), and there are health crises that require pregnancies to be terminated. HOWEVER, by and large the issue of personal accountability is a biggie with this issue. Most women seeking the "morning after" pill had a "night before" choice.

    Love all; worship One; judge none.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finzean View Post
    <edit>I work as a youth pastor so my perspective on this whole issue is probably a little different than most. I don't like being lumped into the evangelical right b/c though I am a Follower of Christ, I'm not one to swing my Bible about like a sword wielded by some self-righteous, bull horn toting, doomsdayer...but I do follow the Red Letters as best as I can. Green can follow the law and then take the money he would spend on fines and apply it better by going into neighborhoods and establishing health care clinics where young women/girls can access health care and birth control.
    <edit>
    Love all; worship One; judge none.
    Wonderful sentiments. I wish more religious people felt this way.
    Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #226
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/titlevii.cfm
    "Except as otherwise provided in this subchapter, an unlawful employment practice is established when the complaining party demonstrates that race, color, religion, sex, or national origin was a motivating factor for any employment practice, even though other factors also motivated the practice."
    ... _. ._ .._. .._



  7. #227
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    Since when are companies allowed to impose their morals on their employees? That is a scary precedent to set.

    And BC pills are such a basic part of healthcare, and something many women take for other health issues. So, you don't want the insurance that the woman pays for to cover BC pills, but you're also opposed to abortion. So that means women are just supposed to not have sex, right? It's an attitude straight out of the Dark Ages.

    And when companies don't want to pay for BC but WILL pay for Viagara, penile pump surgeries, that really gets my hackles up. If we're in the majority, why is it that men are constantly making up legislation to control us and give themselves free rein? Infuriating!


    8 members found this post helpful.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by TarheelJD View Post
    I should add that the analysis above is limited to the religious freedom challenges to the law. There could be additional challenges to Obamacare that we haven't discussed here, such as the contract clause, which could ultimately affect the law's constitutionality.
    This is the understatement of the century. There will be so many more lawsuits related to Obamacare, gah.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frizzle View Post
    Since when are companies allowed to impose their morals on their employees? That is a scary precedent to set.

    And BC pills are such a basic part of healthcare, and something many women take for other health issues. So, you don't want the insurance that the woman pays for to cover BC pills, but you're also opposed to abortion. So that means women are just supposed to not have sex, right? It's an attitude straight out of the Dark Ages.

    And when companies don't want to pay for BC but WILL pay for Viagara, penile pump surgeries, that really gets my hackles up. If we're in the majority, why is it that men are constantly making up legislation to control us and give themselves free rein? Infuriating!
    And just how is the company imposing their morals on the employees?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    And just how is the company imposing their morals on the employees?
    Ummm, by refusing to cover birth control......


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #231
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    Just checking back in to see what LMH might have to say about circumcision since he/she was so interested in it previously......
    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.



  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Ummm, by refusing to cover birth control......
    Thats not imposing their morals on employees, Now if the company prohibited employees from buying their own BC and made that grounds for termination then perhaps I might agree that they are imposin their relogious beliefs on employees.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by jen-s View Post
    Just checking back in to see what LMH might have to say about circumcision since he/she was so interested in it previously......
    It is not that I was interested in it-it was an example of another 'medical issue' that had religious implications.

    Since it doesn't involve someone's 'right to have sex' I guess no one cared!



  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Ummm, by refusing to cover birth control......
    You won't buy me a pony so you're imposing your morals on me...

    The usual and proper response is open your purse and buy your own damn own pony..!

    sub BC for pony ... Silly is it not ?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finzean View Post


    We all make mistakes, pregnancies from rape happen (not a lot but they do), and there are health crises that require pregnancies to be terminated. HOWEVER, by and large the issue of personal accountability is a biggie with this issue. Most women seeking the "morning after" pill had a "night before" choice.
    Precisely.

    And since when is the choice to have sex a 'medical issue?'

    Personally the health of our country would be far improved if the government next came in and forced people to only eat healthy food and imposed a fine if they ate stuff out of a box.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/titlevii.cfm
    "Except as otherwise provided in this subchapter, an unlawful employment practice is established when the complaining party demonstrates that race, color, religion, sex, or national origin was a motivating factor for any employment practice, even though other factors also motivated the practice."
    http://www.fnrlaw.com/CM/Custom/PDF/...WEB%20SITE.pdf
    Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    You won't buy me a pony so you're imposing your morals on me...

    The usual and proper response is open your purse and buy your own damn own pony..!

    sub BC for pony ... Silly is it not ?
    Hosspuller,,, every employee has a right to free ponies from their employer for gawds sake!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Thats not imposing their morals on employees, Now if the company prohibited employees from buying their own BC and made that grounds for termination then perhaps I might agree that they are imposin their relogious beliefs on employees.
    The entire argument is based on religious "rights" being aserted by the corporation so by their own argument "stating that their religious beliefs say that birth control is wrong" they are imposing their religious beliefs on their employees by forcing employees who do not subscribe to the corporation's owners religious beliefs to pay for birth control out of their own wages.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #239
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    No contraception, no sex. End of discussion.



  20. #240
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    Hosspuller, I don't think anyone is requesting a pony for their own health care. But you and Noms can live in that world where there are no limitations on literal language and that the courts don't exist in the US.

    Delusions are free, but some of us are actually knowledgable about the reality of the laws that we all live by. And other's posts are a waste of time...


    4 members found this post helpful.

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