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  1. #201
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    Apr. 9, 2012
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    Default The First Amendment

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    David Green is arguing that congress has passed a law that is prohibiting the free exercise of his religion.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #202
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whitewolfe001 View Post
    Ugh. Glad we don't have Hobby Lobby around here so I am not tempted to shop there. So many things I disagree with, I'm not even going to get into it...

    I live in Massachusetts and we are a very liberal state when it comes to health insurance. We have had state sponsored insurance for a long time now and it's not just for low income people, but also for people who are self employed, or underinsured. Lots of people are on it, or go on it temporarily between jobs or transitioning between work and school, etc... The sky hasn't fallen and the state is not going bankrupt, in fact we have lower unemployment and better growth than most places.

    So I just shake my head when I see companies or people panicking over Obamacare.

    Companies like Hobby Lobby, Papa Johns, etc. are crying because they are going to have to give up a small percentage of their profits for healthcare, the availability of which I think should be a human right. Papa Johns claimed it would cost them 15 cents a pizza, but others have calculated it at more like 5 cents per pizza. OH THE HUMANITY
    Uh, they arent going to give up anyhing... You will pay more for a pizza and everything else actually.....


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #203
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    Feb. 20, 2010
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    All 'round Canadia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    How anybody can be so arrogant and so uninformed all at the same time is absolutely galling to me.
    That's actually not uncommon. Really, there are studies on it. The more uninformed one is, the more one tends to rigidly cling to what one knows, even if it's misinformation.*

    * not making a comment on the truthiness of the info under discussion, just on the phenomenon itself.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  4. #204
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    Apr. 3, 2006
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    Spooner, WI
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    2,361

    Default

    No if we had them here I would not shop there. I have this hang up about, "We won't cover 'certain' items regarding women's reproduction choices but BY GOLLY we totally support coverage for medications that create chronic hard ons for men." Really WTF! I'm beginning to think Christian women must love subjugation. Or are good pretenders.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  5. #205
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    6,229

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    That's actually not uncommon. Really, there are studies on it. The more uninformed one is, the more one tends to rigidly cling to what one knows, even if it's misinformation.*

    * not making a comment on the truthiness of the info under discussion, just on the phenomenon itself.
    I think we should have a best quote ever thing here. I'd vote for this one. SO true!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #206
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tbaymare View Post
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    David Green is arguing that congress has passed a law that is prohibiting the free exercise of his religion.
    DG has a right to the free exercise of his religion. However the corporation he started has no such right. No Mitt corporations aren't people
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #207
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    Apr. 28, 2010
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    Atlanta, GA and New Orleans, LA
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    Default

    I have no idea if we have a Hobby Lobby in Atlanta or not. I go to Sam Flax - I hope they aren't a bunch of religious right nut bags! I'd hate to feel compelled to stop going there - I love that store!
    Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #208
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    YES and equally as slippery having government forcing it!!
    Government is forcing consistency and not allowing one person's religion to dictate healthcare for another. Maybe you should read up a bit more on the limitations of one' religion, hint....religious rights still won't allow you to yell "fire" in a crowd.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #209
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    DG has a right to the free exercise of his religion. However the corporation he started has no such right. No Mitt corporations aren't people
    Go back up a few posts, Tbaymare copied the 1st amendment here (thanks!)

    No where does it differentiate that a corporation which is the vehicle of Mr HL, does not enjoy freedom under that amendment.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #210
    Join Date
    Aug. 8, 2008
    Posts
    206

    Default

    "Uh, they arent going to give up anyhing... You will pay more for a pizza and everything else actually....."

    That's fine. I'll gladly pay an extra 5 cents per pizza for the employees to have basic rights...

    It's the same argument as when companies like Apple or whoever claim they couldn't possibly manufacturer their goods in the US and keep the retail pricepoint the same. I think that's just pure BS. You could manufacture here and retail at a similar pricepoint and be profitable. But not monstrously profitable.

    And if Hobby Lobby actually thinks that the morning after pill is an abortifacient, that's just scientific illiteracy.


    17 members found this post helpful.

  11. #211
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Go back up a few posts, Tbaymare copied the 1st amendment here (thanks!)

    No where does it differentiate that a corporation which is the vehicle of Mr HL, does not enjoy freedom under that amendment.
    Nor does it say that corporations have the same rights as people. DG formed the corporation to isolate his personal life from his business. If HL sells lead or cadmium coated crap from China and people get sick DG personally is not responsible. If the lawsuits were to bankrupt HL DG's fortune would not be seized in the settlement.

    Courts have held that for profit corporations don't have religious beliefs. If you believe in the bible even Jesus had something to say about the separation of religion and business
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  12. #212
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    Jul. 15, 2003
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    2,652

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    It will be interesting to see how long it takes for a Christian Scientist that owns a company challenges Obamacare.
    I will point out that the entire Christian Scientist half of the family has paid into Medicare from the time of its inception - and that side of the family have been Christian Scientists from its founding. They have never, ever used it, but do not begrudge paying the tax because it is for the general good of our society.
    Don't tell me about what you can't do. That's boring. Show me what you can do. - Mom


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #213
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    Default

    Exactly, Carolprudm. HL is not a religious organization it is a corporation.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #214
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Default

    The First Amendment does not differentiate between protecting religious freedoms for religious entities vs corporations.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #215
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2012
    Location
    NOVA
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    93

    Default Hobby Lobby Statement of Purpose

    Hobby Lobby is an organization/coorporation with these stated beliefs,

    In order to effectively serve our owners, employees, and customers the Board of Directors is committed to:


    Honoring the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner consistent with Biblical principles.

    Offering our customers an exceptional selection and value.

    Serving our employees and their families by establishing a work environment and company policies that build character, strengthen individuals, and nurture families.

    Providing a return on the owners' investment, sharing the Lord's blessings with our employees, and investing in our community.

    We believe that it is by God's grace and provision that Hobby Lobby has endured. He has been faithful in the past, and we trust Him for our future.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #216
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    Apr. 9, 2012
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    NOVA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    If you believe in the bible even Jesus had something to say about the separation of religion and business
    The closest Jesus came to this was when he said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s"

    This was in reference to taxes not business.



  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    The First Amendment does not differentiate between protecting religious freedoms for religious entities vs corporations.
    The courts do differentiate. I find it really funny that so many people posting here take things such as the first and second amendments literally. It does not work that way, there are limitations, read up !


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #218
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaymare View Post
    The closest Jesus came to this was when he said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s"

    This was in reference to taxes not business.

    Yes, I was just about to post this. Religious entities and corporations are diferentiated in the US Internal Revenue Code with respect to paying taxes.... Yes, one gets protection from paying income taxes and the other does not.

    The First Amendment can not be confused with defining the status as a tax paying entity. Please!



  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    The courts do differentiate. I find it really funny that so many people posting here take things such as the first and second amendments literally. It does not work that way, there are limitations, read up !
    StolenVirtue, unless you are a constitutional lawyer who can back up that post, I will continue to argue that you are wrong.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #220
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    Apr. 28, 2010
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    Atlanta, GA and New Orleans, LA
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    If SCOTUS finds that there is a compelling government interest in the healthcare realm, and that Obamacare is narrowly tailored to address that interest without unnecessarily abridging constitutional rights, then it is done. The law will be applicable, and HL and other companies who oppose it on whatever religious argument they have will have to comply.
    Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson


    1 members found this post helpful.

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