[SaturdayNightLive]

They're not. It's just not included in their insurance package that they offer employees. If you want BC or an abortion you can pay for it yourself.

That's the point - I am paying for it myself in labor. I work for my insurance, you don't get to dictate what it covers based on your beliefs because it is MINE. I paid for it.

[TarheelJD]

Please explain the logic employed in reasoning this statement.

I think the position assumes that the company's employees were aware of the business owner's religious convictions when they accepted the job, and that the employees who had issues with those beliefs and accompanying policies did not have to seek out and accept employment at that business.

That is how I read it, but I could be wrong re: the poster's intent.

[Noms]

Please explain the logic employed in reasoning this statement.

HL is not prohibiting any one of its employees from using BC, morning after pills etc. They just dont want to provide that benefit in their insurance package. They do not want to pay for it.

[Noms]

That's the point - I am paying for it myself in labor. I work for my insurance, you don't get to dictate what it covers based on your beliefs because it is MINE. I paid for it.

OMG, every single company that provides health insurance benefits negotiates their very own package with a health insurance provider. The employees get all that information when they interview and accept the position, If they dont like it, they are free to go somewher else.

[Noms]

Not if Obama does nothing, if congress does nothing. Seriously. Read a book or something.

SNL - you need to educate yourself on the "Fiscal Cliff " K??

[cowboymom]

They're not. It's just not included in their insurance package that they offer employees. If you want BC or an abortion you can pay for it yourself.

Why is this so hard to understand? They aren't making their employees sign a contract that they'll never have an abortion, they're saying that the benefits package that comes with this job doesn't include it.

sorta like we have never had dental insurance or vision. DH's employer did not offer it so we paid for it... ourselves.

[SaturdayNightLive]

That's true.

Except when the company is in violation of federal law. Like Hobby Lobby. Like OMG.

[SaturdayNightLive]

SNL - you need to educate yourself on the "Fiscal Cliff " K??

Uh, no, sweety. I think you do. K?

[Noms]

That's true.

Except when the company is in violation of federal law. Like Hobby Lobby. Like OMG.

That mandate is not effective until 2013, and by action of law, you have to wait until the provisions are in effect to litigate.

[Noms]

Uh, no, sweety. I think you do. K?

OK, then tell me what happens with the fiscal cliff dilema?

[TarheelJD]

The LAW does not allow this. Maybe you should READ it.

Equibrit - I have tried to be courteous throughout this discussion, realizing that reasonable people can and do disagree with many aspects of the healthcare law. I am not sure why you feel the need to be so nasty in this response.

I have not read all of the Act (I don't have time given the extraordinary length), but I have relied on summaries that I believe come from accurate sources. I am not aware that there is anything in the law that contradicts the idea that employees are free to choose to work for employers whose ideals are aligned with theirs.

The Act does require that all businesses that employ over a certain number of people must provide a health insurance coverage that complies with certain parameters. As long as the judiciary upholds the law as constitutional, then that is what businesses must do.

[Alagirl]

HL is not prohibiting any one of its employees from using BC, morning after pills etc. They just dont want to provide that benefit in their insurance package. They do not want to pay for it.

well, at a certain point it's non of their business anymore.
It's not like they pay knock'em dead wages. Or make work for their people easy (not to mention all the Chinese crap in the store probably emits unhealthy fumes galore!)

It's an intrusion of privacy.
While Mr HL can think what he wants when he wants and do as he pleases....once we are talking for profit....nope, it should be off limits for him to dictate such matters.

Unless of course he is willing to give those kids a full ride until they are done with college....I am talking diapers through tuition....

Unlike fertility treatment (which I think should not be covered....because, well it IS expensive and not a medical necessity, not even mentioning followup cost) BC is reasonable....and yeah....pregnancy is potentially lethal to a woman.

[SaturdayNightLive]

Congress has to come to an agreement before the President can sign it into law. That's how the government works. And that's why the Senate is in session today - they're trying to work out a deal. It isn't something the President can just waive a magic wand at.

That was directed at Noms, btw, re: fiscal cliff.

[Alagirl]

Congress has to come to an agreement before the President can sign it into law. That's how the government works. And that's why the Senate is in session today - they're trying to work out a deal. It isn't something the President can just waive a magic wand at.

sadly....in some cases...

[Noms]

Congress has to come to an agreement before the President can sign it into law. That's how the government works. And that's why the Senate is in session today - they're trying to work out a deal. It isn't something the President can just waive a magic wand at.

Sorry, thats not how it works this time... and actually there hasnt been a pen in Obamas hand for the last 3 years hes been in office.

AND thats not what the fiscal cliff is....

[SaturdayNightLive]

Sorry, thats not how it works this time... and actually there hasnt been a pen in Obamas hand for the last 3 years hes been in office.

AND thats not what the fiscal cliff is....

You can't be serious.

The fiscal cliff is a phrase coined in reference to the Bush era tax cuts that will expire tomorrow due to a built in sundown clause unless they are reinstated by CONGRESS.

Seriously, though, you're playing with me, right?

[Noms]

You can't be serious.

The fiscal cliff is a phrase coined in reference to the Bush era tax cuts that will expire tomorrow due to a built in sundown clause unless they are reinstated by CONGRESS.

Seriously, though, you're playing with me, right?

Nope, thats not correct. Congress does not reinstate anything..... Go google some more.

[SaturdayNightLive]

I give up, Noms. You've successfully worn me out. How anybody can be so arrogant and so uninformed all at the same time is absolutely galling to me. And yet, here you are.

[carolprudm]

Why is this so hard to understand? They aren't making their employees sign a contract that they'll never have an abortion, they're saying that the benefits package that comes with this job doesn't include it.

sorta like we have never had dental insurance or vision. DH's employer did not offer it so we paid for it... ourselves.

That is correct. However if the federal government passed a law that said every company must provide optical or dental insurance and that law was held to be constitutional then vision or dental insurance would have to be provided.

The federal government can set employment standards and require employers to comply with them.

ETA:Congress passed the ADA and employers bitched and moaned about that. Boo Hoo, they got over it

[whitewolfe001]

Ugh. Glad we don't have Hobby Lobby around here so I am not tempted to shop there. So many things I disagree with, I'm not even going to get into it...

I live in Massachusetts and we are a very liberal state when it comes to health insurance. We have had state sponsored insurance for a long time now and it's not just for low income people, but also for people who are self employed, or underinsured. Lots of people are on it, or go on it temporarily between jobs or transitioning between work and school, etc... The sky hasn't fallen and the state is not going bankrupt, in fact we have lower unemployment and better growth than most places.

So I just shake my head when I see companies or people panicking over Obamacare.

Companies like Hobby Lobby, Papa Johns, etc. are crying because they are going to have to give up a small percentage of their profits for healthcare, the availability of which I think should be a human right. Papa Johns claimed it would cost them 15 cents a pizza, but others have calculated it at more like 5 cents per pizza. OH THE HUMANITY