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  1. #461
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    Thinking out loud here. The objections to the morning after pill can perhaps be found in its name. The morning after what? Everyone knows, no one says. But the connotation is the idea of enjoying sex without marriage and without the pesky little inconvenience of creating a child. The same is true with the Sandra Fluke controversy. And the same objections take place: why should the government have anything to do with us wanting to enjoy sex, and provide for us ways to make this even easier for young people? And furthermore, if you are a person or company that feels strongly in your christian values, you are not going to want to be involved in something that condones sex without consequences, or marriage, or everything else that goes with the breakdown of moral principles and the family in society. The narrative is that this is a woman's health issue. Do any of us really believe that is the main issue? And women like Sandra Fluke pound their fist on a table insisting they have a right to condoms and morning after pills. You do. Go buy your own. leave me out of it. That is basically HLs stance, I think.


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  2. #462
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    Why would you even go to work for a company if you objected to their policies? Just to make a stink?

    That's the part of this thread I don't understand.

    If you object to what a company stands for just go work somewhere else.
    Kanoe Godby
    www.dyrkgodby.com
    See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDE Driver View Post
    Why would you even go to work for a company if you objected to their policies? Just to make a stink?

    That's the part of this thread I don't understand.

    If you object to what a company stands for just go work somewhere else.
    Because so many people these days feel they are entitled to a job, and retirement, and health care, and security, and the list goes on, and that it is the purpose of a business or corporation to provide them with all those things. And they will vote for anyone who promises them that they get all those things. The government is Santa Claus! We are so far down this rabbit hole we may never get back.


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  4. #464
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    here is the link,,, read all 2700 pages crunch some number and figure it out for youself.
    You do know there is no link.....just words....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsehand View Post
    Because so many people these days feel they are entitled to a job, and retirement, and health care, and security, and the list goes on, and that it is the purpose of a business or corporation to provide them with all those things. And they will vote for anyone who promises them that they get all those things. The government is Santa Claus! We are so far down this rabbit hole we may never get back.
    So what is your solution? Let them starve? Live in a car? You don't think that after working your entire life, you should be able to retire with a pension and health care?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsehand View Post
    Thinking out loud here. The objections to the morning after pill can perhaps be found in its name. The morning after what? Everyone knows, no one says. But the connotation is the idea of enjoying sex without marriage and without the pesky little inconvenience of creating a child. The same is true with the Sandra Fluke controversy. And the same objections take place: why should the government have anything to do with us wanting to enjoy sex, and provide for us ways to make this even easier for young people? And furthermore, if you are a person or company that feels strongly in your christian values, you are not going to want to be involved in something that condones sex without consequences, or marriage, or everything else that goes with the breakdown of moral principles and the family in society. The narrative is that this is a woman's health issue. Do any of us really believe that is the main issue? And women like Sandra Fluke pound their fist on a table insisting they have a right to condoms and morning after pills. You do. Go buy your own. leave me out of it. That is basically HLs stance, I think.

    What business is it of yours what someone else's "morals" are? I'm morally against war...I still have to pay my taxes.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #467
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    Jan. 26, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    They could. Look what happened to the owners of Red Lobster and Olive Garden when they tried cutting back employees hours to avoid ObamaCare. Sales down 37% in the last quarter.

    As an owner, he could, but his customers just might object.
    As a well off, self made owner he could just close the doors also


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsehand View Post
    Because so many people these days feel they are entitled to a job, and retirement, and health care, and security, and the list goes on, and that it is the purpose of a business or corporation to provide them with all those things. And they will vote for anyone who promises them that they get all those things. The government is Santa Claus! We are so far down this rabbit hole we may never get back.
    I think your boy Romney stated this "people voted for Obama because he promised them gifts". Time to move on stop blaming all of the domocrats.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #469
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    Nov. 6, 2001
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    Do people deserve retirement, health care etc.? My answer - people deserve what they personally work, plan, and save for. Our government safety net is important for those at the fringe. But the bulk of your retirement comes from your own savings and planning. Many folks first thought is the government (read taxpayer) owes me. But their first thought should be what have I or should I do to help myself.

    The math doesnt work on retirement anymore since we all work til 60 or 65 and live until 90....which means each and every person needs to take responsibility and have their own plan which means saving money, working longer, and maybe accepting a lower standard of living in retirement.

    Living in a car? That is not the government's responsibility to prevent, although I hope our safety nets do mitigate the impact in some of those cases and perhaps more importantly, private charities. In the end, it is the responsibility of the individual.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    I think your boy Romney stated this "people voted for Obama because he promised them gifts". Time to move on stop blaming all of the domocrats.

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20...now-support-us
    "How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?" Julian Lennon


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  11. #471
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    A council member in Detroit does not speak for the democratic party. If you read the article it also states that the Feds have no "bailout plan" for the city. I'm sure Shelden Addelson was promised quite a few corporate "gifts" for his contributions to Romney's run.

    Again, time to move on and stop blaming the Democrats.


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  12. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    Do people deserve retirement, health care etc.? My answer - people deserve what they personally work, plan, and save for. Our government safety net is important for those at the fringe. But the bulk of your retirement comes from your own savings and planning. Many folks first thought is the government (read taxpayer) owes me. But their first thought should be what have I or should I do to help myself.

    The math doesnt work on retirement anymore since we all work til 60 or 65 and live until 90....which means each and every person needs to take responsibility and have their own plan which means saving money, working longer, and maybe accepting a lower standard of living in retirement.

    Living in a car? That is not the government's responsibility to prevent, although I hope our safety nets do mitigate the impact in some of those cases and perhaps more importantly, private charities. In the end, it is the responsibility of the individual.
    You did not answer healthcare.



  13. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    This is indeed true. However corporations are not people with religious beliefs. People form corporations to separate their business ventures from their personal lives.
    Hobby Lobby is a privately held firm, so the government is trying to compel the owner of this firm to violate his religious faith and participate in the commission of a mortal sin.

    There are times when we are called to honor an authority higher than the US government.


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  14. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    Do people deserve retirement, health care etc.? My answer - people deserve what they personally work, plan, and save for. Our government safety net is important for those at the fringe. But the bulk of your retirement comes from your own savings and planning. Many folks first thought is the government (read taxpayer) owes me. But their first thought should be what have I or should I do to help myself.

    The math doesnt work on retirement anymore since we all work til 60 or 65 and live until 90....which means each and every person needs to take responsibility and have their own plan which means saving money, working longer, and maybe accepting a lower standard of living in retirement.

    Living in a car? That is not the government's responsibility to prevent, although I hope our safety nets do mitigate the impact in some of those cases and perhaps more importantly, private charities. In the end, it is the responsibility of the individual.

    'The Taxpayer' those are the people who paid into the fund for social security.

    The Math? Until the funds got eyeballed by the people in power the supply was secure for a long term, 2030 and longer if I recall right.

    The math still works. Even with less people paying in, they are paying in more than their predecessors did.

    Private savings for retirement?
    You are honestly suggest that, after wall street crashed that bubble?!

    I know my retirement savings took a huge dive because of that! I know I am not alone at all on that boat.
    So obviously the private savings, while they should still be supported, can't be counted on, not unless the mechanics on Wall Street are fixed (and with 90% of the people in charge of legislature bucking for a job at Goldman Sachs, fat chance that happening.)

    it is in the government's best interest to prevent people from living in their cars. It is bad for the bottom line, if nothing else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheval convert View Post
    Hobby Lobby is a privately held firm, so the government is trying to compel the owner of this firm to violate his religious faith and participate in the commission of a mortal sin.

    There are times when we are called to honor an authority higher than the US government.
    Wow, that is a pretty scary statement. I think there have been mass murders with the thought "There are times when we are called to honor an authority higher than the US government".

    I am thankfull that other religious people do not think this way. Wow...


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  16. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheval convert View Post
    Hobby Lobby is a privately held firm, so the government is trying to compel the owner of this firm to violate his religious faith and participate in the commission of a mortal sin.

    There are times when we are called to honor an authority higher than the US government.
    It's a corporation and as such the owners private believes are immaterial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    What business is it of yours what someone else's "morals" are? I'm morally against war...I still have to pay my taxes.
    You are correct LK, it is not our business what another person's morals are, however, the Christian right has been told to stay out of other people's bedrooms, but then are told to pay for what goes on in those bedrooms, that is hypocrisy. You can't have it both ways. And we again get into compelling people of faith to particpate in the commission of a sin.

    Personally, I would really like to not be involved in what goes on in other people's bedrooms.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    It's a corporation and as such the owners private believes are immaterial.
    The Supreme Court disagrees with your analysis. Because a corporation pays taxes, it has certain rights, just as an individual does. A company as large as Hobby Lobby would be foolish to try to make a go of it as a sole proprietor ship but is they went that way, I assume you would then be ok with their stance.


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  19. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by bauhaus View Post
    we want you to be guaranteed to be covered by it no matter how sick you get. No more lifetime caps and no more dropping you because you get sick, and no more denying you because of preexisting conditions. ).
    well sort of as the Affordable Care Act does contain some points of exit:


    • plans can put an annual dollar limit and a lifetime dollar limit on spending for health care services that are not considered “essential.”

    •Some plans may be eligible for a waiver from the rules concerning annual dollar limits, if complying with the limit would mean a significant decrease in your benefits coverage or a significant increase in your premiums.



  20. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheval convert View Post
    You are correct LK, it is not our business what another person's morals are, however, the Christian right has been told to stay out of other people's bedrooms, but then are told to pay for what goes on in those bedrooms, that is hypocrisy. You can't have it both ways. And we again get into compelling people of faith to particpate in the commission of a sin.

    Personally, I would really like to not be involved in what goes on in other people's bedrooms.
    they are told they cannot exclude services as they see fit. Big difference.
    Would you feel the same if your employer told you you could not have a blood transfusion, because they oppose it on religious grounds?

    Do they oppose dispension of Viagra, too for that matter, since it could (probably more often than not) be used to have extramarital sex?
    It has been given to convicted rapist in the past, at tax payers expense no less. I don't hear the conservative/religious faction scream bloody murder about that one.
    It seems they only find their religious outrage when female health is involved.
    Lets face it, one does not have to have sex, as the aforementioned crowd loves to point out. So why can a guy get Viagra paid for my insurance?

    being pregnant is among the top reasons for poverty in women.
    That does not mean a woman who wishes to not conceive at present does not want to have a child in the future.

    But it could mean the difference between crippling poverty for her and her child(ren) and an acceptable minimum standard of living.

    getting pregnant carries far beyond the bedroom!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    6 members found this post helpful.

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