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  1. #81
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    Hobby Lobby and any other business that chooses to close because they don't want to pay for birth control is choosing to end their business, but I don't think they are denying themselves any profits. Somehow I have no sympathy for them as they close their stores and sell off the assets. If they wish to retire on their beliefs, screw 'em. Because new owners will buy Hobby Lobby, restructure it, figure out how to embrace Obamacare and make money. Same with the janitorial companies. Profits may not be as big at first but as Obamacare phases in, businesses will adapt.
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
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    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"


    8 members found this post helpful.

  2. #82
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    Nov. 6, 2002
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    Henrico, NC 36 30'50.49" N 77 50'17.47" W
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    Fortunately, there is both freedom of religion here, and separation of church and state. It's okay for anyone to believe whatever the hell they want to as far as religion goes, but it's not okay to believe that it's okay to break the law without paying whatever penalty is involved. For me, I'll exercise my freedom to choose not to do business with such idiots.


    17 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
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    Oct. 2, 2012
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    Hobby Lobby and all employers must pay their employees for their labor. If those employees choose to spend their paychecks on illegal drugs, prostitution, porn, etc. is that any of Hobby Lobby's business? Can it be said that Hobby Lobby is subsidizing immoral behavior because their profits are spent in this way? What's the difference if the insurance they provide by law covers contraception?

    What behavior do they find immoral, that women have sex without fear of pregnancy?

    I think that's the bottom line of all the anti-birth control and anti-choice sentiment: gotta control the women.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    13 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
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    Nov. 5, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    The morning after pill is not an abortion drug and won't become one no matter how many times you keep repeating that it is.

    As for my sig line, I don't think it means what you think it means.
    What is everyone whining about? What I hear is this: YOU must provide for my welfare and health care! YOU must give me a well paying job!. YOU have more than me, so you need to share it. I have a right to be take care of, and the government should make sure that that happens! Sounds to me like: ...c'omplaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy.”


    9 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    Quote Originally Posted by TarheelJD View Post
    Actually, the majority of policies exclude weight loss (mine does, and I have what would be considered a "Cadillac Plan"). And I believe some policies exclude injuries sustained from certain high-risk activities, but I am not positive about that.
    I have never seen a healthcare policy exclude sport injuries. All sports are "high-risk" activities and I am not even sure how you would differientiate between sports...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    If you go down your line of thinking Bristol Bay, there will no protection afforded to religious beliefs.

    It is not having sex in this case, it is abortion if you believe life begins at conception.

    I have no issue paying you a salary and you can choose to use your money for an abortion...it is legal and that is your choice.

    I have a HUGE issue being forced by government to offer a benefit that will pay for abortion.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
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    Sep. 20, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsehand View Post
    What is everyone whining about? What I hear is this: YOU must provide for my welfare and health care! YOU must give me a well paying job!. YOU have more than me, so you need to share it. I have a right to be take care of, and the government should make sure that that happens! Sounds to me like: ...c'omplaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy.”
    Wow are you confused.

    People who work hard at their jobs have EARNED their benefits as a part of their compensation package that was agreed to by their employer - they aren't getting anything for free. And yeah, I am entitled to that which I EARN.

    And nobody is whining except you and the religious right. The Affordable Health Care Act is federal law. Again, please refresh yourself on the workings of a democratic republic. Don't like it? Well, then to quote you and others of your ilk, you can just get out.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    11 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    It will be interesting to see how long it takes for a Christian Scientist that owns a company challenges Obamacare.



  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    I have a HUGE issue being forced by government to offer a benefit that will pay for abortion.
    It isn't about abortion. When HL execs say "abortion causing drugs" they mean Plan B and The Pill. Their argument is that they believe (against all science and reality) that these things cause abortions, so they shouldn't have to pay for them.

    No, you do not get to invent your own version of reality to circumvent federal law.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    15 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
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    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    If you go down your line of thinking Bristol Bay, there will no protection afforded to religious beliefs.

    It is not having sex in this case, it is abortion if you believe life begins at conception.

    I have no issue paying you a salary and you can choose to use your money for an abortion...it is legal and that is your choice.

    I have a HUGE issue being forced by government to offer a benefit that will pay for abortion.
    But there's the rub, LMH. What if I have a HUGE issue providing a benefit that pays for ... oh, I dunno... transfusions? Or vaccinations? Or mammography?

    In all cases, it would be my (or your) personal beliefs being imposed on others who may not share them, and IMO, that is problematic.

    You may well (and reasonably) object to abortions, considering them immoral. However, that is your *individual* belief, and not one that is universally shared. Our current laws allow for the separation of church and state to enable each person to make their own decisions about issues of that nature (subject, of course, to our laws.)

    As an individual, you can believe that those drugs are equivalent to an abortion, and I can disagree; both our beliefs on that score are protected under the law. Neither of us can impose our beliefs on the other, and that is as it should be.
    **********
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    12 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    People who work hard at their jobs have EARNED their benefits as a part of their compensation package that was agreed to by their employer
    No you are confused...your statement above is no longer the case.

    An employer no longer has the ability to negotiate in this area.

    Previously-yes you are correct...and previously as an employer I could say NO I will not provide insurance but I will give you more money so you can do as you wish...or I could say this is all I can pay and if you don't like it get another job.

    Now I MUST provide insurance.

    It is NOT a financial issue that I am discussing on this end...I am not complaining that I must provide it (well I think it is wrong but not for this discussion)-I take issue with the type of coverage I must provide for you.

    I mentioned in an earlier post, let BC and abortion be a rider on a policy that an individual can purchase. I will provide basic health coverage and you can then buy your own bells and whistles.

    That way I could provide BC if my religion is ok with that but must not provide abortion.

    This is what happens when government sticks its nose where it does not belong.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    It isn't about abortion. When HL execs say "abortion causing drugs" they mean Plan B and The Pill. Their argument is that they believe (against all science and reality) that these things cause abortions, so they shouldn't have to pay for them.
    Yup, you have nutcases like my neighbors http://www.all.org/nav/index/cat/ODk/heading/OQ/


    and then there's this
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xe4wRhFf9Y

    here's the whole video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auv6c0-FsjU
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucassb View Post
    But there's the rub, LMH. What if I have a HUGE issue providing a benefit that pays for ... oh, I dunno... transfusions? Or vaccinations? Or mammography?

    In all cases, it would be my (or your) personal beliefs being imposed on others who may not share them, and IMO, that is problematic.

    You may well (and reasonably) object to abortions, considering them immoral. However, that is your *individual* belief, and not one that is universally shared. Our current laws allow for the separation of church and state to enable each person to make their own decisions about issues of that nature (subject, of course, to our laws.)

    As an individual, you can believe that those drugs are equivalent to an abortion, and I can disagree; both our beliefs on that score are protected under the law. Neither of us can impose our beliefs on the other, and that is as it should be.
    This is why government has stepped WAY beyond its role. WAY beyond.

    And you are right-neither can impose beliefs but by legal requiring it my beliefs ARE being imposed on.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
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    Aug. 10, 2008
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    Statesboro, GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    People incorporate businesses to separate that business and its possible liabilities from their personal life. You can't have it both ways
    This is an excellent point. I so agree.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
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    Feb. 20, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    I do not understand how a company can refuse to pay for birth control for its employees but is fine paying for them to have babies. Wouldn't it be cheaper to pay for birth control?
    More to the religious freedoms point - would it be ok for the business to cover prenatal care and birthing costs for married women, but not for singles? After all, ho-ing around all premarital-like is also against the Bible.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
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    Sep. 20, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    This is why government has stepped WAY beyond its role. WAY beyond.

    And you are right-neither can impose beliefs but by legal requiring it my beliefs ARE being imposed on.
    Only if your beliefs are that you should get to impose your beliefs on other people.

    Honestly, I think your idea of a "basic package" is a good one. However, that isn't currently the law. And unfortunately for HL, they exist in this version of reality, so they must obey this version of the law.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
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    Aug. 12, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    I have a HUGE issue being forced by government to offer a benefit that will pay for abortion.
    So, essentially, you would prefer to FORCE the US Government to ESTABLISH one religion - yours - as the official religion of the United States, at the expense of all the other religions which presently have the same rights under the Constitution and a rather lengthy body of law. Or am I misreading?
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


    11 members found this post helpful.

  18. #98
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    There is no 'both ways.'

    An example. I own a corporation and I belong to a church that does not believe in working on Saturday.

    So I close my business on Saturday.

    This means my business is closed on Saturdays but it is closed because of my (the owner's) religious beliefs.

    Businesses operate ALL the time according to personal beliefs. When these beliefs violate laws (race, sex, etc) it is not allowed...but religious belief normally (not always) trumps law.

    There are exceptions all over the place-Christian Scientists and vaccinations would be one.

    Yes there are times when public healthy trumps religious belief...just saying companies operate under personal beliefs all day long.

    Hence Chik-Fil-A is closed on Sunday. Government can't FORCE them to open on Sunday.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #99
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    Sep. 20, 2005
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    And some of you have a very twisted way of viewing employer/employee relations. Employees EARN nothing and are GIVEN compensation from their employer? No, sorry, I WORK for you, you PAY me for my WORK. This isn't Oliver Twist asking sir for some more.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    11 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    ...but religious belief normally (not always) trumps law.
    Uh, wow, no. That's not at all how that works. Except maybe in your head.

    The first amendment to the US constitution allows freedom of and FROM religion. Religious belief has no effect on the law, and it certainly doesn't "trump" it.

    There is no law saying that businesses must be open certain days of the week. That is why you can be closed whenever you want, not because your religious beliefs are a magical and untouchable loophole.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    11 members found this post helpful.

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