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  1. #21
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    Nov. 1, 2007
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    When you goggle search this in quotes this thread comes up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Calvincrowe View Post
    Yes--she's busted with no pre-write, and yes, parents will be notified. We simply don't have enough technology available or time, to allow all research to take place at school.

    Here are the first and second body paragraphs:

    The first reason is that generations that do not have a common goal tend to lack these qualities. The more generations that pass without a common driving force the less patriotic the become. Generations that have been involved in great wars in American history were brought together with a single focus to defeat a common enemy. The two great world wars are examples of how the nation came together and, in doing so, created a sense of patriotism this generation has not experienced.

    The second reason follows the first. The more individualistic the people of a generation become, the more self-serving and self-centered they become. This selfishness creates a sense of entitlement within the generation, where paraphrasing Pres. John F. Kennedy, they look not for what they can do for their country, but rather what the country can do for them. Recent elections and the use of class warfare to separate us rather than bring us together were sadly proven effective. This shows that many have begun to vote for personal gain rather than for what may be best for the country as a whole.


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  2. #22
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    Dec. 23, 2010
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    Just as an aside, TurnItIn is NOT all it's cracked up to be, and often doesn't catch more subtle types of plagiarism... in fact I'm leading a crusade against its default use by UK universities.

    I've had instances where student essays were comprised of mixed-up Wikipedia pages, and presented the offprints to department admins and the powers that be. The result was that, since TurnItIn didn't catch the plagiarism (or identified it as <4%) there was nothing they could do under university regs. Outrageous! There was also the recent case of a very top-notch university that passed a Masters thesis later found to be plagiarised.... their defense was that TurnItIn hadn't identified it as such.

    That said, if anyone wants to use it for small sections they offer a free sample service via the TurnItIn website.
    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.



  3. #23
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    Oct. 2, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    You could give her a quiz on her own writing. What's a "driving force?" What are the two great wars you are referring to? Explain individualism, entitlement, class warfare, etc. I bet she couldn't pass the quiz.
    That one works every time.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Aug. 25, 2008
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    Florida
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    Very often, when you sit them down and discuss salient points from the essay (and they can't intelligently come up with ANYTHING) they will break down and admit to it. Even if she didn't "buy" it but had an older sibling (or parent, it happens) write it, chances are she doesn't have a good grasp of the material, and won't be able to host a "defense" of it the same way she would if she actually researched and wrote it.

    But they are getting more brazen. I had a student this year lie about his sister dying to get out of an "F" grade (it didn't work - he was caught multiple times when various professors googled her obit and finally confessed) but THEN he tried to do a medical withdraw to get out of the disciplinary action associated with lying. And petitioned ME to approve this withdraw. So she may not cave. But if she doesn't know the material, she is definitely busted.



  5. #25
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Deep South
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    Ayn Rand ?
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    I'm sure Calvin can take down any 8th grader with a sitdown! I had one this year do a similar thing and he never admitted to it, but admitted that with NO drafts and an amazing final, he would think he was cheating.



  7. #27
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    Oct. 28, 2007
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    Virginia
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    OOOOH, do the sitdown quiz. Man, I like that idea. I hope that I won't ever have to use it, though.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Jun. 19, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    poor kid... the COTH hounds are of the trail!
    Kid doesn't stand a chance
    the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique



  9. #29
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    Feb. 20, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by MunchingonHay View Post
    When you goggle search this in quotes this thread comes up.
    LOL, yes. I tried some of the most grown-up phrases, and this post is one of the top results.

    This is certainly not beyond a parent or college-aged sibling though. Much safer than outright plagiarism for the student, and there's a built-in parental over-defensiveness to any accusation because they helped in the cheating.



  10. #30
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    Jul. 28, 2006
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    http://https://ed.grammarly.com/register/signup/report_pale/?newv=1

    this one indicates it might be, but I don't want to sign up/download!
    Last edited by mercedespony; Dec. 29, 2012 at 09:19 PM. Reason: fixing link



  11. #31
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    Jan. 10, 2008
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    Western NY
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    Huh, I'm stumped--no luck with any of my usual search engine tricks. I am going to guess help-from-relative-or-friend rather than an essay found online. If you want to accept it without the notes/draft, I would try giving her a simple three question "quiz" on the essay--basically asking her to elaborate on or explain some of the points made. It could be oral or written.



  12. #32
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    Dec. 29, 1999
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    Harrisburg, PA USA
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    Agree with those who say discuss the project in depth with the student before making such an accusation. I do know a student who wrote so well in school that teachers had this same reaction. LOL, he defied them to find it on the web (of course they couldn't) and welcomed any sort of grilling they wanted to give him on the details of the subject. The work was indeed his own. It's hurtful to have teachers say in effect "you're too stupid to write this well." I know you wouldn't say those words, but in effect that's what you are saying.



  13. #33
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    Aug. 25, 2008
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    If that were the case, though, the student would consistently produce work like that. I've had students do that to me on the FIRST essay of the semester which is why we always do a lot of in-class and pre-writing exercises. If they turn those in, no issue. In fact, if you DO all of that work, there should BE no need for plagiarism as a time-saving exercise. If you don't, well, your work is suspect.

    We've found that incorporating these milestone deadlines help more for reducing plagiarism, but there will ALWAYS be some students who try to work the system. It's MORE work in most cases, which always puzzles me. The student who tried to excuse his lack of pre-writes with his sister's "death," for example, made up fake obits, wrote letters to me from his "father," elaborate e-mails, etc. By the time he was done, he could have just DONE all of the pre-writes AND the paper ten times OVER!



  14. #34
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    Feb. 14, 2003
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    Oh, I'll handle this with tact. I'll begin by asking for her research/prewrite/first draft. I just asked another teacher on our staff who has this student this year, too, and showed the paper to him just now. He said "ah, looks like the hand of his/her ultra conservative dad might be at work there". I guess dad has questioned this teacher's US History class content multiple times this year, so teacher has a good feel for his ideas and writing (lots and lots of emails exchanged....).
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


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  15. #35
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    Jan. 31, 2003
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    I think CC knows her student but yes, I would be careful. Every once in a while one of my kids really digs into a subject and writes about it in a way that shocks me. FWIW my seventh grader could have wrote this, AIG English / social studies kid. If he is fired up, his level of sophistication is surprising. But I know him , as CC know this student.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  16. #36
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    Jul. 15, 2006
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    VA
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    The lack of prewriting makes me wonder. That said I know if you read my sons first book report this year and his second, you may think it was 2 different people. I did help him with the second one, but I did not write any of it. We simply went over the essay rubric and I read what it said and he had to write down what he was going to write about. For example, for setting he wrote Florida Keys/ and the name of the lagoon. Characters he made a list of the main characters. More like a glorified outline. That is why the lack of pre writing bothers me. His second one was miles better BECAUSE of the pre writing, why not turn it in if it was a requirement?



  17. #37
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    Aug. 24, 2009
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    Kudos to you all for taking this so seriously. I write and edit professionally, and was astounded when a 'colleague' plagiarized large sections of a piece she contributed to a collaborative project. Unfortunately many people (and people well beyond middle school!) either do not know or do not care what is correct and appropriate. My colleague claimed that she thought she could use the work the way she had since it was in an educational piece - I had to explain that it was still not acceptable to copy whole paragraphs with no citation, etc.

    It's entirely possible to be an excellent writer in 8th grade (I was one, too) but I'm sure CC knows her students well enough to be sure that this young person did not write the essay herself. So please... Crack down! Teach them it's NOT OKAY! It's no fun to be disciplined in school but I imagine it's a lot less fun to lose your job or professional standing because you thought plagiarizing was acceptable and/or you wouldn't get caught.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Feb. 20, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMacallister View Post
    The lack of prewriting makes me wonder.
    That said, pre-writes used to irritate me. I avoided them at all costs; in Grade 8 I wouldn't have needed a pre-write to get a good grade (unless it was required and graded on its own, of course, hence the irritation - I actually produced retroactive "first drafts" for grading purposes). I used to be able to write first-draft-only essays as long as they were opinion/reflection-type pieces without extensive references. I tended to write "in my head" and putting a draft on paper interrupted that process for me.


    23 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Mar. 10, 2009
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    Senior year in college I got hauled before the Honor Council on accusation of plagiarism.

    It was a pretty scary situation, as the class for which I'd produced the paper was my major's senior seminar, required to complete the major and thus a degree.

    It was the first paper we did for the class, standard 3-1/2 -5 page typed, and we were told we were not required to use outside sources. I didn't, but the professor thought the paper was well above what any of her graduate students could have produced. On some level I was flattered, but I was also terrified that I might have to tell my parents that they'd basically wasted 4 years of tuition money.

    In the time between the charges and the actual hearing, I had two more papers turned in (you can bet I used an assload of references and documented pretty much every other sentence!) and got A's on both. The professor realized that I just had a really good grasp of the subject and was also a better-than-average writer (not to brag - I like to think it makes up for my astonishingly poor math skills). But one stupid aspect of Honor Council procedure was that once the investigation/trial process was started, no one could stop it, not even the original complainant.

    With the professor now firmly on my side, the trial ended in my favor, but it was a rather nervous few weeks for me.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    Feb. 14, 2003
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    I hear you Coanteen! That sounds like me in school, too, so I feel for the "independent writers". Basically, the pre-write for this assignment consisted of a T-chart to create your pro and con reasons for kids either being patriotic or not, the notes we took on the key elements of persuasive essays, and the requirements for this particular essay...as I said, it was not a major essay--just an extended response to a challenging question from a reading assignment--typical of what you face in a HS class, done in a short period of time. I had a hard, fast deadline, with hard, fast requirements of plan, first draft and final due the last day before break.
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!



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