The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 81
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2003
    Location
    N. Augusta, SC (but forever a BUCKEYE!)
    Posts
    1,683

    Default

    I'm also an 8th grade teacher. The two paragraphs that were offered to us by the OP truly do not resemble anything that the 8th graders I teach would write. That said, I doubt it was plagiarized, but instead, co-written by a parent with good intentions.

    When 8th graders plagiarize, in my experience, it's more 'cut and paste' from the web (oftentimes with hyperlinks still intact) and the students aren't savvy enough to actually allow the plagiarized ideas flow into their own writing.

    Utilizing the world wide web for research is challenging for 8th graders. They do have a difficult time putting what they find on the Internet into their own words and then citing sources. Oftentimes, they don't really understand what they're reading on the web. As much as they despise it, when we're doing web research, I require that my students take notes on notebook paper (in their own words--you CANNOT COPY IT OFF THE COMPUTER SCREEN)--and write a citation. We then go back to the classroom where we can't look at what was on the screen and use the information from said notes for writing. It makes keeping plagiarism at bay a little easier and pushes my students to really make sense of what they've read before formulating an idea and an organizational structure for the essay.

    It's not a perfect world, and it has its problems, but until my kiddos understand the importance of citations and NOT COPYING, then it's my job to model, teach, model, teach, remind, reteach, remodel how to properly utilize the Internet for information you're going to use in a formal paper.
    Random horse pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/glfprncs/
    Talk to me about fitness or nutrition (I'm an A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer)!
    My blog! http://personalsweatequity.blogspot.com/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2005
    Location
    between the mountains and the sea, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,936

    Default

    I just had another thought. Make sure you handle this in a way that the student knows how serious plagiarism is, but don't rake her over the coals for it. If you find Dad did write the majority of the essay, in your shoes I would have her stay behind for break or lunch and rewrite it using her own ideas & whichever rubric/pre-write you use.

    I say this because a lot of first year university students do not understand what plagiarism is and what the consequences of doing so are. A girl I know copied parts of an essay from wikipedia, and proceeded to tell her entire residence hall about it, taking it as kind of a joke. The rest of the students freaked out & tried to explain what she'd done. The essay WAS found to be plagiarised by turnitin, which may be relevant considering above posters comments regarding turnitin. She had to retake the class in her 2nd year and was VERY LUCKY she wasn't in honours years otherwise she would probably have been kicked out. I've heard of a few cases where American students have been kicked out for plagiarism too.

    IMO middle school students need to understand what plagiarism is and what the consequences are for doing so, so I would use this as a learning experience.
    "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
    "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Sep. 19, 2008
    Location
    Half past the point of oblivion
    Posts
    924

    Default

    I would seriously consider the idea that the student discussed the subject with dad and then wrote the essay with many of his statements still strongly in her mind, resulting in the stilted phrasing and slightly too-sophisticated ideas that aren't fully explained. So, not a case of plagiarism per se, but worthy of a discussion with the student.
    Holy crap, how does Darwin keep missing you? ~Lauruffian


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
    Posts
    9,270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by axl View Post
    I would seriously consider the idea that the student discussed the subject with dad and then wrote the essay with many of his statements still strongly in her mind, resulting in the stilted phrasing and slightly too-sophisticated ideas that aren't fully explained. So, not a case of plagiarism per se, but worthy of a discussion with the student.
    It is also not unknown for kids to record discussions on the subject with parents or other adults, and then sit down and bang it out on the computer while listening to the recording. Not sure if that is considered plagiarism, though, since the adult didn't actually write it - the kid was just writing down the adult's thoughts, and some would consider it another form of "research" (as happened to one of my nephews).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    4,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    - the kid was just writing down the adult's thoughts, and some would consider it another form of "research" (as happened to one of my nephews).
    Yes, I always use the phrase "The second reason follows the first." when talking to my 8th grader

    Most of cadence of the writing is just oddly timed



  6. #66
    Join Date
    Nov. 25, 2005
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    1,020

    Default

    Seeing as I have high school students that don't seem to totally understand how pregnancy happens and how to prevent it, it is totally believable to me that middle school students do not understand plagiarist.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2012
    Posts
    281

    Default

    I teach remedial writing at a community college. I had a foreign student hand in an essay I know was beyond her in the sense of the syntax and diction. Speakers of particular languages seem to make errors of a consistent sort. I couldn't find the essay online. I felt nervous bringing it up to her as she was a very sweet and kind young lady. The head of my department suggested reviewing the paper with her asking her to clarify certain statements. "Could you please explain what you mean here? It's not exactly clear." Give her the opportunity to show her knowledge. If the work is not hers, she will crumble. In this way, you come off as the angel of education because you are giving the student an extra chance to make things better.

    As a note, as a mother and a friend, I've helped with papers. Sometimes my editorial zeal does get the best of me.



  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2012
    Posts
    281

    Default

    I teach remedial writing at a community college. I had a foreign student hand in an essay I know was beyond her in the sense of the syntax and diction. Speakers of particular languages seem to make errors of a consistent sort. I couldn't find the essay online. I felt nervous bringing it up to her as she was a very sweet and kind young lady. The head of my department suggested reviewing the paper with her asking her to clarify certain statements. "Could you please explain what you mean here? It's not exactly clear." Give her the opportunity to show her knowledge. If the work is not hers, she will crumble. In this way, you come off as the angel of education because you are giving the student an extra chance to make things better.

    As a note, as a mother and a friend, I've helped with papers. Sometimes my editorial zeal does get the best of me.



  9. #69
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,788

    Default

    I'd definitely go for the quiz approach (in addition to the phone call home and requests for prewriting). It doesn't need to be formal; simply pull the student aside privately and ask them, in a nonaccusatory tone, various questions about the content and vocabulary of the paper. If it is outright plagiarism, they will collapse like a balsa wood building.

    Anecdotally--I teach younger middle schoolers, 6th graders, and they are far less skilled at plagiarizing. They are adorably blatant and endearingly clueless. Granted, I teach math and science, so the variety I get is copied math answers, despite my no work = no credit policy. I tell them a thousand times a year I don't care if they have the right answer; I care that they KNOW HOW TO GET the right answer. Many of them stubbornly don't seem to believe me. What kills me most is when we're doing corrections (which I weight equal to a quiz--I stress how valuable it is to learn from their mistakes) and they've learned the answer is, say, 25 because their neighbor answered that question correctly. They do work--knowing they HAVE to--that is all kinds of wrong, yet try to force a right answer into it. Yup, 300 x 12 is...25. *BZZZ* WRONG! I give the kid that does all the right steps but gets the computation wrong--say, recognizes that the problem requires one to divide 300/12 but gets 250 due to decimal error--more credit.

    Science-wise, they only tend to copy definitions (I require they put it in their own words) from the glossary (which I detest and wish didn't exist--the words are already defined in the context of the chapter! MUCH more useful!) or ones they find off the internet that are laughably complex for an 11yro. When they can't even read the definition to me, yeah...busted, but in an "Awww, aren't they cute trying to cheat themselves out of their learning" way.
    SA Ferrana Moniet
    Not goodbye--just waiting at the end of the trail.
    My bloggity blog: Hobby Horse: Adventures of the Perpetual Newbie



  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2002
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    370

    Default

    I agree with the person that said the writing is not that special. I would bet her dad helped her write it.
    Its funny, because in our school system, parents are encouraged to help their kids all the time. I can remember thinking when my son was young, that geesh I should be the one being paid, as it was a bit much with all the homework.
    I would just sit down with the kid and ask if she got help writing it. Go over some of the points with her, who knows maybe she does understand her dads point of view and can give a good account of the gist of the essay.
    I dont believe at all that she copied from somewhere, its just not that good.
    www.tayvalleyfarm.com
    My other home.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2000
    Location
    Full time in Delhi, NY!
    Posts
    6,394

    Default

    Sounds like the intro to Tom Brokaw's book The Greatest Generation.
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"



  12. #72
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2002
    Location
    Calera, AL
    Posts
    1,901

    Default

    I work with a lady that writes all her son's papers. She does all his homework. I find that horrifying. I don't remember my mom helping me past elementary school, and even then it was just help trying to puzzle things out.

    BTW, am I the only one that keeps coming back to check if the COTH truth hounds had treed their prey?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2003
    Location
    Windward Farm, Washougal, WA- our work in progress, our money pit, our home!
    Posts
    6,691

    Default

    I will not see this kiddo until January 2...and I'll bet the OT day will be done by then, darn it! Still no joy on finding the source, and after further talks with the history teacher who shares her, he said dad has turned out to be a really nice guy--just got off on the wrong foot early in the year --it happens! So...

    Possibility 1--she plagiarized this from a source I can't find, either online or in book form.

    Possibility 2-- she had a sibling (I don't think she/he has an older, only a younger sibling if memory serves) or friend write this

    Possibility 3--dad or mom gave mondo assistance, resulting in a stilted, very un-this-child-like essay.

    Possibility 4--child has undergone total writing overall and is now writing at a much higher level and understanding, perhaps through divine intervention??

    No matter what, I'll begin by asking him/her for their notes/plan, first draft and given him/her a chance to explain some key phrasing to me. This will be done privately and tactfully. If plagiarizing is discovered, then mom/dad will be notified, and child can resubmit a work entirely done by them, no penalty for lateness. I am not out to punish her/him, just teach them that what THEY have to say on a subject is what matters, not doing the easy, wrong thing of "borrowing".

    I must say, this generation does have a shocking propensity to see nothing wrong with "borrowing" the intellectual property of others whether it is music, words, video or art....
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2005
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    2,231

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Agree with those who say discuss the project in depth with the student before making such an accusation. I do know a student who wrote so well in school that teachers had this same reaction. LOL, he defied them to find it on the web (of course they couldn't) and welcomed any sort of grilling they wanted to give him on the details of the subject. The work was indeed his own. It's hurtful to have teachers say in effect "you're too stupid to write this well." I know you wouldn't say those words, but in effect that's what you are saying.
    Such a thing happened to me in high school, not from my teacher -- he knew I'd written the thing in part because he knew I was fascinated by Austrian and Hungarian history -- but from one of his colleagues to whom he showed it, as well as some other work from other students. The other social studies teacher felt it had to have been cribbed. When my teacher mentioned that to me, laughing, I was incensed. He barely managed to talk me out of going to give his colleague hell.
    If I knew what I were doing, why would I take lessons?

    "Things should be as simple as possible,
    but no simpler." - Einstein



  15. #75
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    12,705

    Default

    In 6th grade I turned in a plan for a science project that both my teacher and the HS biology teacher said was way above my level. Being catholic school they decided public humiliation was the way to go so they had me give the class a presentation of my idea. After an hour or so of "Everything I know about tropical fish" they were begging me to sit down and shut up.
    But by then it was to late to enter the science fair
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Aug. 24, 2009
    Posts
    287

    Default

    CC, I was still pondering this late last night... I wonder if your student "borrowed" the text but maybe used that handy thesaurus function to change some of the words? I encounter some folks who don't realize that changing a few words here and there still doesn't make the writing their own. And changing a few words would be enough to keep the quotes from bringing back any responses in a search engine, right? It could also potentially explain the stilted nature of the excerpt you provided.

    It sounds like you have the situation very well under control. Good on you for being so thoughtful about the entire thing! (As we have seen from other posters... not every teacher is as meticulous and insightful when dealing with possible plagiarism!)



  17. #77
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2010
    Posts
    668

    Default

    I saw a website once where you could type in a topic at the top and then just start writing jibberish and it would type up an essay. Don't remember what it was called though. Wonder if she did that.

    ETA: http://essaytyper.com/



  18. #78
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    4,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    It is also not unknown for kids to record discussions on the subject with parents or other adults, and then sit down and bang it out on the computer while listening to the recording. Not sure if that is considered plagiarism, though, since the adult didn't actually write it - the kid was just writing down the adult's thoughts, and some would consider it another form of "research" (as happened to one of my nephews).
    If this were the case, the student should have no problem producing a draft or an outline. When I am learning how to present new technology, I will record a demo, then take notes from the recording and then write up my own interpretation. No way could I write a final presentation as I listen to a recording.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvincrowe View Post
    I will not see this kiddo until January 2...and I'll bet the OT day will be done by then, darn it!
    I hope it stays open a bit longer, I want to know how this turns out!

    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    I saw a website once where you could type in a topic at the top and then just start writing jibberish and it would type up an essay. Don't remember what it was called though. Wonder if she did that.

    ETA: http://essaytyper.com/
    I just did some research and found there are many sites that will produce a written essay. Unbelievable how technology enables cheating. Back in the "old days", all we had were Cliff Notes!
    Last edited by jenm; Dec. 30, 2012 at 04:45 PM. Reason: fixed quote
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg



  19. #79
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    11,331

    Default

    Could it be possible that this kid isn't the typical idiot kid in school now due to the fact that the standards are so damned low?

    I mean, if I saw one of my 9th grade SD's friends write it, I'd think they cheated because the standards have been so damned low that unless it reads an episode of the Simpsons or Family Guy it couldn't possibly be, right?

    But I wrote papers beyond that much younger than them and so did my husband!
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  20. #80
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    2,537

    Default

    I had a professor in college that tried to accuse me of plagiarism because a 12 page paper that I'd written and turned in via turnitin returned something like a 36% score.

    The problem was, the paper was written in German, the topic was Wolfgang Borchert's "Das Brot", and my professor required us to use scholarly works as sources. She also required us to use a minimum of 20 sources in our citations section. So I was writing 12 pages double-spaced in German, using (not necessarily citing, but using) 20 scholarly sources from a very limited selection, on a relatively obscure piece of writing, and my turnitin score came back at 36%. My professor accused me of plagiarizing and took it before the modern language department at my university.

    That meeting became more about "how to use and interpret turnitin as a professor" than it did about punishing me. She also did a better job of crafting her requirements for future assignments (ie, was more thoughtful about the number of scholarly sources required for 12 page papers on the subjective interpretation of literary works).

    Later, as a philosophy teaching assistant at the same university, I caught a few students plagiarizing simply because their essays never answered the question posed. The writing far exceeded my expectations for said students, and the subject matter just never answered the questions presented in the assignment. The professor I worked for opposed the use of turnitin, but it was easy enough to catch them through the use of google. They automatically failed the class (as any 400-level college student should, IMO).
    Here today, gone tomorrow...



Similar Threads

  1. Where to find used Monoflap saddles for a student?
    By Couture TB in forum Eventing
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: Jun. 29, 2012, 09:40 PM
  2. Where can I find a working student?
    By annemiek in forum Dressage
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Apr. 14, 2012, 12:11 PM
  3. Where to find Working Student Positions?
    By Equestryn in forum Dressage
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: Dec. 2, 2011, 07:03 PM
  4. How to FIND working student?
    By ToTheNines in forum Around The Farm
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Jan. 23, 2011, 12:54 PM
  5. Can anyone help me find a topic for an essay?
    By Chenalie in forum Off Course
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Oct. 7, 2010, 04:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •