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  1. #1
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    Default Does money make you mean?

    Read and discuss: http://nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/

    Thought it would be interesting given that we all participate in a sport that is dominated by the ultra-rich.



  2. #2
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    Thanks for posting this article, it was an interesting read!



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tha Ridge View Post
    Read and discuss: http://nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/

    Thought it would be interesting given that we all participate in a sport that is dominated by the ultra-rich.
    Very interesting and the dog pictures were hilarious.

    I think you have to have a certain amount of inherent callousness to make money off of people. I don't have that gene, and I find I always dislike people who love money, even if I meet them socially and have no financial dealings with them.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!



  4. #4
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    The so called "science" and conclusions were a joke. Just one example... Saying that being poor is the reason that 3 yr olds have lower language skills, doesn't take into account the effect that mom's prenatal care/nutrition/drug or alchohol use/education level has on the development of the baby/child. It's not money that makes a child more literate/advanced mentally, but the things above. But someone drug addicted and uneducated is more likely to be poor, and not exactly spending time reading to their babies, making sure they eat nutritious food, etc. They are screwing up the cause/effect in that article, and failing to take other factors into account.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    The so called "science" and conclusions were a joke. Just one example... Saying that being poor is the reason that 3 yr olds have lower language skills, doesn't take into account the effect that mom's prenatal care/nutrition/drug or alchohol use/education level has on the development of the baby/child. It's not money that makes a child more literate/advanced mentally, but the things above. But someone drug addicted and uneducated is more likely to be poor, and not exactly spending time reading to their babies, making sure they eat nutritious food, etc. They are screwing up the cause/effect in that article, and failing to take other factors into account.
    I think they assume that you understand the assertion that one follows from the other.


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  6. #6
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    Interestng article. I just took a mulitvariate stats class this semester and I was thinking about the stats tests they probably used (lots of regression) to make the observations they did. You'd have to look at the original article's methods section to get a sense of truly how valid and reliable the data are.

    In terms of this discussion, personally I think it's a nature-nurture question, with many variables playing a role. I've seen quite a few nasty rich people, but I've also seen nasty poor people. It just all depends.



  7. #7
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    It may well be that having lots of money makes one less empathetic (I can't even imagine being a total a$$ like Donald Trump), but the nastiest people I personally know are "poor" and have a chip on their shoulder.


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  8. #8
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    Drawing broad conclusions about real life behavior based on things like a Monopoly game or the kind of car a person drives is pop-psychology at its most idiotic.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieB View Post
    Drawing broad conclusions about real life behavior based on things like a Monopoly game or the kind of car a person drives is pop-psychology at its most idiotic.
    THIS. It's amazing to me how such silliness manages to find publication under the imprimatur, "science."

    From my own experience, "Old Money" raised back in the day, ingrained with a strong sense of noblesse oblige, comprised some of the most marvelously selfless and generous people I have ever known. Most of their gifts were anonymous, too, not just to get their name in some foundation's program.

    However, "The Yuppies" (as we call 'em), raised to believe we live in a zero-sum world, unfortunately retain their dog-eat-dog mentality even when they have more money than their great-grandchildren could ever spend; and it's just All About Them and their competitive, conspicuous, consumption.

    You can infer which group I'd rather hang out with . . .


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    The so called "science" and conclusions were a joke. Just one example... Saying that being poor is the reason that 3 yr olds have lower language skills, doesn't take into account the effect that mom's prenatal care/nutrition/drug or alchohol use/education level has on the development of the baby/child. It's not money that makes a child more literate/advanced mentally, but the things above. But someone drug addicted and uneducated is more likely to be poor, and not exactly spending time reading to their babies, making sure they eat nutritious food, etc. They are screwing up the cause/effect in that article, and failing to take other factors into account.
    I take it you have money.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    I have done customer support for a long time. By far, the nastiest people to deal with were the people calling to scream at me about their government assistance checks. That group was nastier than the rest of my customers combined. That group is one of the reasons I left my last job and went to a job where I deal with business owners. Now? I very rarely get cussed out. Business owners, particularly those of larger corporations, are wonderful to deal with.


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  12. #12
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    Does money make you mean?... no.... but people wanting my money seems bother me


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    I think they assume that you understand the assertion that one follows from the other.
    Yup.
    I think calling in junk science it going far too far. It's difficult to study something like the effect of money on behavior, personality, etc, precisely because of all the things that come with having money. Better health care, better education, better nutrition, safer living spaces, just in general this feeling of security, that you will have a roof over your head tomorrow, that your belly will be full. In comparison studying the effects of a drug on the body, for ex, is laughably simple.

    I think the article is very interesting. Does it apply to every person with money? Of course not, and the article does point out the great contributions the rich have made to society. But it is interesting, and it should be studied. We'll learn more about the human condition from it, even if the studies aren't perfect.


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  14. #14
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    Having money puts you in a more powerful and influential position. Whether or not you use that for good, or for evil, is up to you.
    It's 2014. Do you know where your old horse is?


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  15. #15
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    Money doesn't make you mean any more than money makes you happy. If yoi're happy when you're poor, if you'd win the lottery you'd still be happy. If you're an unhappy person when you're poor and you win the lottery, you'll still be an unhappy person.


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    THIS. It's amazing to me how such silliness manages to find publication under the imprimatur, "science."

    From my own experience, "Old Money" raised back in the day, ingrained with a strong sense of noblesse oblige, comprised some of the most marvelously selfless and generous people I have ever known. Most of their gifts were anonymous, too, not just to get their name in some foundation's program.

    However, "The Yuppies" (as we call 'em), raised to believe we live in a zero-sum world, unfortunately retain their dog-eat-dog mentality even when they have more money than their great-grandchildren could ever spend; and it's just All About Them and their competitive, conspicuous, consumption.

    You can infer which group I'd rather hang out with . . .
    I think you hit the nail on the head. My daughter's school (Pre-K through 12, private girl's school) transitioned from laid back old money to "new" money. All show and no go type of atmosphere for a while.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  17. #17
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    Coanteen summed up my feelings on it pretty accurately.

    I think perhaps the word "mean" is what's throwing people off—in the Monopoly study, it's not that the wealthy players became "mean"; they just became more concerned with obtaining more wealth without even thinking about the disadvantaged player. I think that's a pretty true-to-life trend.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tha Ridge View Post
    Coanteen summed up my feelings on it pretty accurately.

    I think perhaps the word "mean" is what's throwing people off—in the Monopoly study, it's not that the wealthy players became "mean"; they just became more concerned with obtaining more wealth without even thinking about the disadvantaged player. I think that's a pretty true-to-life trend.
    I think this old money/new money can be explained that way too. When you're talking about old money, you're talking about generations of people raised in pretty much absolute security, class and finance-wise.

    That far away from the generations that actually made the money (created the business, whatever - at some point all old money was new money) there was no need to struggle and claw your way to the top. You're at the top, the pressures are different, and they often have to do with exhibiting a certain manner (graciousness, what one poster called "noblesse oblige"). But this is taught too, it's part of presenting the right kind of picture.


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  19. #19
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    Relating to the dogs at the top of each page of the article, which group of people (higher SES/lower SES) is kinder to animals?



  20. #20
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    The value of the article, I think, is that it raises some interesting questions and summarizes some imperfect first attempts at trying to answer them. Properly done and controlled, it would be intriguing to prise out conclusions.

    I think some of the work mentioned is deeply flawed. Failing to correct for age, the source of wealth, etc., pretty much invalidates any conclusions. And of course 'social class' and 'wealth' do not correlate very well, at least in the US.

    Studies based on skewed board or other game conduct do not map into real-world behavior. I know people very well from working with them who are 'ruthless' calculating and highly successful poker players who in the real world are the kindest and most compassionate of individuals.

    The automobile study is simply ridiculous. In my experience the people who drive the grandest bank-financed cars are often the least able to afford them, and those who could easily afford such vehicles tend to own lesser ones. And in highly affluent neighborhoods, outsiders tend to be circumspect because if they do anything to give the authorities the opportunity to hassle them, they will be hassled.
    If I knew what I were doing, why would I take lessons?

    "Things should be as simple as possible,
    but no simpler." - Einstein


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