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  1. #1
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    Jan. 31, 2010
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    Default Hind gut ulcers?

    What is the treatment and or diagnostic for hind gut ulcers.

    I do have a message in to my vet, but this is a busy time for them, and it is a non-urgent issue, so looking for ideas from Coth.

    Also wondering what symptoms you would expect if a horse has a hind gut ulcer.



  2. #2
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    Jan. 3, 2012
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    Default

    Succeed makes a fecal test that is supposed to identify gastric ulcers and/or hind gut ulcers but I'm not sure how accurate it is; you'd have to ask your vet. My interpretation of what I've read is that it is more accurate for hind gut ulcers than gastric ulcers.

    A friend of a friend has a horse that gets sucralfate for hind gut ulcers. I've read of others treating with diet changes. Succeed (supplement) is advertised to help. I think other people feed oat flour in small amounts as a supplement. There should be a lot on COTH if you do some searches and you could also read some of the stuff on the Succeed website.



  3. #3
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    Dec. 5, 2005
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    Default

    I have a horse that we suspect has hind gut ulcers. Unfortunately there is no way to scope for them but they can be "confirmed" through bloodwork and a fecal blood test from what I understand. Succeed is supposed to be the best (and of course most expensive!) way to manage them but I've had great luck with Equishure from KER.

    http://www.kerx.com/products/EquiShure/

    My horse used to be a once a year "mystery colicer" (as in needing to be shipped to a clinic and put on fluids). He's be scoped several times and all the scopes were within normal limits. Since being in the Equishure the colics have stopped completely--it's the only thing that has changed in his management.
    Quote Originally Posted by EquineImagined View Post
    My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.



  4. #4
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    Default

    I wouldn't trust the Succeed test at all. Blood doesn't mean hind gut ulcers, and lack of blood doesn't mean no hind gut ulcers It might be useful in conjunction with other tests/diagnostics, but even then it seems a waste.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    I wouldn't trust the Succeed test at all. Blood doesn't mean hind gut ulcers, and lack of blood doesn't mean no hind gut ulcers It might be useful in conjunction with other tests/diagnostics, but even then it seems a waste.
    That's exactly what my a home vet said--we did do the test because he had a sample one (free) and it did come back "positive". The clinic blew me off when told this. OP I also forgot to mention that my horse was also on Sucralfate for a couple of weeks following his colic episodes.
    Quote Originally Posted by EquineImagined View Post
    My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.



  6. #6
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    Mar. 10, 2003
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    Default

    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  7. #7
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    Default

    I suspected HG ulcers. Put my horse on Equishure (KER) and saw a noticeable change. (he had terribly acidic, foul smelling manure, was very gassy - this was after we treated and healed stomach ulcers). We did switch him to KER's other product, RiteTrac, only because another horse at our barn was going on it - RiteTrac addresses the whole digestive system (has Equishure in it). I dropped SmartGut from my Smartpak, only have him on the RiteTrac and he is doing GREAT. Licking his pan clean, very eager to eat, no longer as gassy. I always suspected hindgut as it's a much larger area than the stomach, and if he had chronic Grade 2 in the belly, it's likely he had it elsewhere. Even after we treated with Gguard, he would still get ho-hum about eating at times, leave feed, and not be nickering for his food. Now he comes running, nickers and finishes everything.

    You could try one of the above products and see if you notice a change vs. all the testing, vet bills.



  8. #8
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    Default

    Is there anything of use in that thread? read some of it, but it just seemed snarky vs useful. Not really in the mood to read snark today.

    Horse doesn't really show any of the symptoms. no colics, no smelly poo...and she has been treated with Omeprazol back in Nov or Dec. Scope of stomach was fine.

    She has also been seen by a TCM accupressurist and doesn't get sweet feed/grain (referring to above link....).


    Was hoping there was a simple, proven test.



  9. #9
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Default

    It's diagnosed by eliminating all other possible issues. Sadly.

    However...a change of diet is the fix and also can be a really decent diagnostic tool.

    Change the diet...if there's improvement then you've most likely hit the nail on the head and you just stick to the diet change for 3 months minimum to give them time to heal.

    Remove *all* stem hay, dry forage and extruded feeds. Swap over to a complete feed/pelleted feed and soak it to mush. Replace stem hay with soaked cubes. Soak the cubes until soup. Change feedings to 3-6 times daily instead of 1-2 times. Smaller meals fed more often. Absolutely positively *no* NSAIDs. Grazing is good.

    The small wet soupy meals many times per day means less bulk is moving through the painful areas, less stretching. All the extra soaking helps a lot with the excess water/hydration.

    If it's hind gut ulcers/inflamation then there should be an improvement rather soon after the diet change. Give it at least a week or two.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CHT View Post
    Is there anything of use in that thread? read some of it, but it just seemed snarky vs useful. Not really in the mood to read snark today.

    Horse doesn't really show any of the symptoms. no colics, no smelly poo...and she has been treated with Omeprazol back in Nov or Dec. Scope of stomach was fine.

    She has also been seen by a TCM accupressurist and doesn't get sweet feed/grain (referring to above link....).


    Was hoping there was a simple, proven test.
    If you watch the video, you might learn something from it.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caballus View Post
    If you watch the video, you might learn something from it.
    Watched the first 4 minutes. Will watch again and take notes. Interesting, and worth checking out. I do think acupressure/meridians have value.

    MistyBlue, thank you for the feeding schedule...not an easy one for a horse that is on group turn out, but worth a try. How long until we should see improvement? Right now she is fed hay three times a day (in a slow net feeder twice a day, ones a day hay is scattered in her paddock), 1 cup complete in afternoon, and soaked beet pulp with suppliments at bed time (mine, not hers...she can stay up as late as she wants).

    Soon though they will be out on sparse grass, and supplimented with hay and a mineral block, but could switch that to soaked hay cubes, with some pellets mixed in.



  12. #12
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    Oct. 1, 2011
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    Don't try to diagnose/treat hindgut (colon) ulcers on your own, despite the advice you've received here. They're very serious, tough to diagnose and tough to treat--definitely not a DIY project. Consult your veterinarian (I realize you have a call in).



  13. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperfoot View Post
    Don't try to diagnose/treat hindgut (colon) ulcers on your own, despite the advice you've received here. They're very serious, tough to diagnose and tough to treat--definitely not a DIY project. Consult your veterinarian (I realize you have a call in).
    Spoke to my vet briefly and she admits to little knowledge on this other than from school. She would expect different symptoms than this horse has though; such as poor condition, runny and/or smelly manure, worse blood work (last one was normal), and signs of mild colic. She was not off hand aware of the treatments other than antibiotics for suspected collitis....but maybe that is because there really aren't any.

    Still, I see no harm in trying the acupressure test, even if just to give my vet a good laugh. Vets deserve good stories about their crazy clients once and a while, and I should contribute.



  14. #14
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    Sep. 11, 2011
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CHT View Post
    Spoke to my vet briefly and she admits to little knowledge on this other than from school. She would expect different symptoms than this horse has though; such as poor condition, runny and/or smelly manure, worse blood work (last one was normal), and signs of mild colic. She was not off hand aware of the treatments other than antibiotics for suspected collitis....but maybe that is because there really aren't any.

    Still, I see no harm in trying the acupressure test, even if just to give my vet a good laugh. Vets deserve good stories about their crazy clients once and a while, and I should contribute.
    OP- how I'd this work or yo and how did you end up treating?
    "No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" - Winston Churchill

    Check out Central Virginia Horse Rescue



  15. #15
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    Mar. 31, 2012
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    Default

    We have been going through some issues with my gelding after a mild colic this fall. My vet had me treat for sand colic and then place on either equisure or smart digest to see if they helped (there is a particular ingredient in there she was looking for.)

    I tried the smart digest as it was less expensive and his appetite has increased significantly but he is still a little gassy. I think I will try equisure next time to see if it helps with the gas.

    I would suggest trying the equisure.



  16. #16
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    Oct. 13, 2011
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    Central Va.
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    Default

    Yes CHT, update please.



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