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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2004
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    486

    Default Hack-winning movement

    What lines produce hack-winning movement without compromising jumping ability? I look forward to hearing your opinions.

    Kind regards,

    Amy


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by arizonard View Post
    What lines produce hack-winning movement without compromising jumping ability? I look forward to hearing your opinions.

    Kind regards,

    Amy
    Well, this is the million dollar question for hunter breeders isn't it. I have my opinions, and they are really only opinions because the root of the problem that is your question, is that there is really NO reliable way to track what mares lines produce hack winning movement as well as pass on althletic jumps. And lets not forget temperament.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Oct. 19, 2011
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    Ontario, Canada
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    Gatsby seems to really pass on the hack winning movement and still throws his great athletic jump. His amazing mind is definitely a plus too!! I can't wait for my Gatsby baby!
    Check out his website: www.gatsbystallion.com



  4. #4
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    That IS a really tough one as the dynamics of that hack winning movement does typically take scope from the jump. There are some lines that do consistently produce hack winning type movement and some do produce enough jump for the hunters but certainly not what I would consider scopey jumpers. I think those "fancy" movers who are also very scopey are a fluke rather than the rule.
    Silver Creek Farms - home of Apiro & Validation
    Visit us on facebook!


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  5. #5
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    Jan. 2, 2006
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    Colorado
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by showjumpers66 View Post
    That IS a really tough one as the dynamics of that hack winning movement does typically take scope from the jump.
    Would you mind elaborating on that? I've got very little knowledge of hunters but I thought shoulder freedom was desirable in both, no?



  6. #6
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    Dec. 14, 2007
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    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    I think those "fancy" movers who are also very scopey are a fluke rather than the rule.
    Agree 100%. You usually dont see the "10" daisy cutter movement along with the "10" phenomenal hunter jump. The "10" jump usually (but not always) requires more knee action in the trot - the ability to lift the forearm up and out

    And off topic a bit - Amy - is this really you posting? If so - I am SO glad that you have recovered well enough to start posting and joining the BB's once again. We've missed you ...


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  7. #7
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    Oct. 5, 2003
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    Oklahoma
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    Default

    It is not the shoulder freedom that causes the lack of scope, but flattening the gaits that does. Flattening the gaits, especially in the hock, also takes the power and scope out of the gaits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molly Malone View Post
    Would you mind elaborating on that? I've got very little knowledge of hunters but I thought shoulder freedom was desirable in both, no?
    Silver Creek Farms - home of Apiro & Validation
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  8. #8
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    Dec. 8, 2004
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    Default

    Thanks so much for your opinions thus far.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueColours View Post
    And off topic a bit - Amy - is this really you posting? If so - I am SO glad that you have recovered well enough to start posting and joining the BB's once again. We've missed you ...
    This is Amy, so to speak. This is actually her fiance typing, but Amy is dictating everything she wants to say. Amy is doing very well. We are very proud of her. Believe it or not, she is walking very well now. It's all very exciting.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Jan. 29, 2000
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    SE WI- Midwest
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    You are a good guy! Good on you for taking such good care of Amy and her love for horses.


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  11. #11
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    Oct. 5, 2003
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    Oklahoma
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    I am so happy to hear that she is doing so well!!!
    Silver Creek Farms - home of Apiro & Validation
    Visit us on facebook!



  12. #12
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    Dec. 14, 2007
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    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    This is Amy, so to speak. This is actually her fiance typing, but Amy is dictating everything she wants to say. Amy is doing very well. We are very proud of her. Believe it or not, she is walking very well now. It's all very exciting.
    That is GREAT news!!! So glad to hear it!

    Thanks so much for the update on Amy ...



  13. #13
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    Oct. 6, 2004
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    Well you can have a beautiful mover at the trot with a loose free shoulder and still have good jump from the canter if the power comes from the hind end. I have found alot of really nice movers toe in a bit. I think that frees the outside of the shoulder a bit sometimes.

    If a daisy cutter moves flat at the canter they can be very stuck at the base of jumps. That is a problem.

    Not to many horses do both really really well.
    The rider casts his heart over the fence,
    the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

    –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 10, 2011
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    107

    Default

    So as Arizonard asks, "are there lines for hack winning movement?" I would be curious to know also if such a line exists.

    Many breeders I ask tell me the movement comes from the dam. If so, is there a hack winning mother line? Another breeder tells me thats why the low set neck and shoulder of the TB is so desired in today's hunters, to accentuate the flat trot when crossed with a great WB suspension. What should we believe?

    The small sampling of what I consider consistent hack winners have come from average mares and stallions considered "hunter stallions" with more dressage breeding than jumper. In fact, most I have seen are from W line. And while I would say they have decent to good jumping ability, they're not magnificent.

    No expert here, just limited observation, and a small sample at that.


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  15. #15
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    Jun. 16, 2007
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    Default

    There are more and more videos of winning hunter rounds...is there a video of a great hack round?



  16. #16
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    There was a video of a young hunter schooling on the flat floating around that most raved about his movement and were using it as an example of "ideal", but I personally hated how the horse moved. He was totally flat in his gaits and had zero power/drive from behind. He had no swing or elasticity through his body. Sure, he flipped his toes way out there, but I did not see anything athletic about the horse.
    Silver Creek Farms - home of Apiro & Validation
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  17. #17
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    Dec. 13, 2012
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    Fredericksburg, va
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    So here is my question, which would you be more concerned about, hack winning movement usually only one class out of 3-5 in a division, or athletic scope and jumping form? Yes, movement should be important, but I am more concerned about temperament, rideability, and athleticism.
    First and foremost about the horse.
    Rose Bud Ranch Sporthorses
    Like Us On Facebook!



  18. #18
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    Oct. 10, 2008
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    Palm Beach Gardens, FL
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    Why not get both? Breed to Bliss MF!
    Maggie
    www.MarabetFarm.com
    Standing Balt'Amour, Bliss MF & Carry On MF

    Sales, Stallion & Young Horse training, lessons
    Foaling, Collecting Stallions, ET, Custom Breeding


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Jan. 15, 2008
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    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by showjumpers66 View Post
    That IS a really tough one as the dynamics of that hack winning movement does typically take scope from the jump. There are some lines that do consistently produce hack winning type movement and some do produce enough jump for the hunters but certainly not what I would consider scopey jumpers. I think those "fancy" movers who are also very scopey are a fluke rather than the rule.
    Agree completely Barbara - so depends on where one wants to "end" with "jumping ability" - show after show, and now with hunter derbies abounding - the "hack winning movement" of the 3 footers are a whole lot different than the "hack winning movement" of the 4 footers.
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com


    2 members found this post helpful.

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