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  1. #1
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    Red face Compare these four CIC2*s?

    Hi all,

    How do the CIC 2*s at Red Hills (March), Poplar Place (March), The Fork (apr) and Fair Hill (apr) compare?

    Can you comment re: footing, how inviting, how technical, how big the XC is and the SJ?

    Is there a big advantage to doing the Fair Hill CIC if you are contemplating the fall CCI?

    Care to rank them according to your personal preferences?

    FWIW, the competitors party at Red Hills was awesome last year! Maybe that should be a comparison point as well

    Thanks in advance!!

    PS. I'm assuming I'm reading the new FEI rules correctly re: needing a CIC to qualify for a CCI at 2* level, right? Feel free to correct me if I'm not



  2. #2
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    I need to do a 1* (backtracking!) with the new rules. I had not planned on doing one before the CIC** at Virginia. So I am thinking about doing the 1* at Plantation. Is there a reason why you aren't considering the CIC** there?

    Also, for the rules gurus. I do NOT need a CCI* to qualify for a CIC**, right? It can be a CIC*... right? Just want to have my bases covered!



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by clivers View Post
    Hi all,

    How do the CIC 2*s at Red Hills (March), Poplar Place (March), The Fork (apr) and Fair Hill (apr) compare?

    ...

    PS. I'm assuming I'm reading the new FEI rules correctly re: needing a CIC to qualify for a CCI at 2* level, right? Feel free to correct me if I'm not
    I've only done the Poplar Place CIC2*, but I thought it was a very good course, fair but not easy for the level. I've been to the Poplar show in March three years in a row. It has rained all three years, but all at different times. First year, it POURED during showjumping, but the XC was hard footing for the CIC1* the day before. Second year, it poured halfway through XC day. Unfortunately, the CIC2* ran in the AM and the footing was absolutely ROCK hard. Third year, it poured during dressage, which made footing on XC for Advanced absolutely perfect using large studs. The year before I went for the first time, most of my barn went and it absolutely monsooned for two days, to the point that they were forced to cancel everything for Saturday, run XC and SJ for everyone on Sunday, and it was absolute slop.

    Also, the hills change very abruptly, not very 'gently rolling' like you might see in KY or even VA. My horse jammed his stifles on the changes in the terrain the year it was rock hard, but felt fabulous after XC the year after when the footing was wonderful.

    The Advanced often runs before the CIC2*, and in March, can be extremely tough. It can be intimidating to get ready to head out to the CIC2* course after hearing about all the issues the Advanced horses are having. IME, the CIC2* and CIC1* courses in March have always been fair and true to the level.

    One thing I don't like about the March FEI at Poplar is their separate FEI warmup ring. They don't allow you in that ring until the warmup itself, which was never great for my horse's mentality, and then the walk from the FEI warmup ring to the competition ring is pretty busy and exciting. I always really, really hated that I couldn't just warmup in the regular ring, like I had the day before.

    As for qualifications, you need either a CCI1* and a CIC2* OR two CIC2* to run a CCI2*.



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
    I need to do a 1* (backtracking!) with the new rules. I had not planned on doing one before the CIC** at Virginia. So I am thinking about doing the 1* at Plantation. Is there a reason why you aren't considering the CIC** there?

    Also, for the rules gurus. I do NOT need a CCI* to qualify for a CIC**, right? It can be a CIC*... right? Just want to have my bases covered!
    I don't think Plantation is running any FEI events in the spring? Which is why I don't think clivers has it listed, looks like she is gunning for a spring CIC2*.

    And you only need a CIC1* to run a CIC2*. However, if you choose to do a CIC1* instead of a CCI1*, you will need to run two CIC2* prior to a CCI2* instead of only one CIC2*.

    So if you're aiming for the CCI2* at Fair Hill in the fall, you could run the CIC1* at FH in the spring, the CIC2* at VA HT in May, the CIC2* at Plantation in September, and then the CCI2* at FHI. Alternatively, you could run the CCI1* at VA HT in May, the CIC2* at Plantation in September, and then the CCI2* at FHI.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Comedy View Post
    And you only need a CIC1* to run a CIC2*. However, if you choose to do a CIC1* instead of a CCI1*, you will need to run two CIC2* prior to a CCI2* instead of only one CIC2*.

    So if you're aiming for the CCI2* at Fair Hill in the fall, you could run the CIC1* at FH in the spring, the CIC2* at VA HT in May, the CIC2* at Plantation in September, and then the CCI2* at FHI. Alternatively, you could run the CCI1* at VA HT in May, the CIC2* at Plantation in September, and then the CCI2* at FHI.
    So I want to save $$ and it looks like waiting until VA HT for the CCI* makes sense, then doing one CIC** at Plantation in Sept, before FHI CCI**. I think I've got it....

    Divine Comedy, why is it so hard for me to wrap my brain around this? I hope you will be my friend.
    Last edited by Winding Down; Dec. 29, 2012 at 02:45 PM. Reason: additional information



  6. #6
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    The Fork most always has excellent footing, and challenging but fair courses with thoughtful design. There is a bit of terrain, well-used, but it is not "hilly." It encourages forward riding, with some accuracy too. It would be my top pick.

    I haven't been to Fair Hill HT, but I think the HT is run on the other side of the park, and you would not see any of the same CCI fences. But I could be wrong?

    Red Hills is traditionally challenging-- technical, with size (and/or terrain). It is hilly, and you will know it. While it is in FL, it is more clay-based than sand...if it rains, it will be muddy. If you have not competed there before, it is a GREAT event, but often quite difficult (SJ too). I've known quite a few riders who planned to get their CIC qualification there, and didn't...so perhaps plan for a back up CIC if you can.

    Poplar is a fantastic show facility, usually good footing, and average courses (there will be some questions, but it's not Big). There are a couple hills, but not a ton of terrain questions. Poplar and I do not get along; I've had multiple bad experiences there for all sorts of reasons...I keep trying to go back, but I think I've finally learned my lesson to go elsewhere! (Not really the event's fault: one time my horse blew an abscess hours before dressage; another time I bombed in show jumping, after whizzing around the CIC** course double clear; years ago I fell off twice in the big water; another time my horse took a distinct disliking to the mulberry pond water, and that continued...). I could go anywhere else-- Pine Top, The Fork, Virginia, Richland (etc) and do well, and then fall apart at Poplar Place. So I've finally (!!) learned to save my money and avoid it (despite it's convenience on the calendar and lovely facilities.).
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~



  7. #7
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    Thanks AB and DC!
    I think I am going to avoid poplar due to the footing and terrain. I'm still not sure Franklin will return to FEI at all but if he does I am trying to baby him as much as possible
    I had actually forgotten about Virginia and Jersey as options. So if we were to rank according to history of good footing and encouraging courses what does the list look like?
    I have heard that the footing is great at the fork and quite good at fair hill in the spring?..
    How is jersey re footing/terrain and course? Virginia?

    Thanks again!!



  8. #8
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    Ahh thank you AJ!
    The fork sounds great esp since it is kind of on the way home to Ontario!!
    So sorry but so funny about your poplar luck! I guess if you compete long enough we all end up with lucky and unlucky venues, just as I end up sorting socks and underwear into lucky and unlucky part way through the season, lol!



  9. #9
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    Virginia is hilly; like mountainous hilly. Footing is usually decent, Brian and Penny work really hard on their courses' design and footing (for the CCI* one year, they aerated and watered the course day and night for 72 hrs straight!). Courses solid for the level; some size, some accuracy, but I've always thought very rideable. Don't expect to make the time unless your horse is fit!

    I haven't ridden at Jersey, but have groomed several times for the CCI. There are a couple hills, but it is mostly flat; being a CCI as well, the footing will be as good as possible (except for that one year when it was really hard, they aerated all week, and then it POURED and made a quagmire). It drains well, assuming not over-aerated.
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~



  10. #10
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    Awesome, thank you!!



  11. #11
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    Default Before you rank...

    ...the tracks and courses may be *significantly* different this year. FWIW, and if it matters to riders, there have been some big changes in FEI course designers for 2013. John Williams is continuing with Jersey, and is now also doing Virginia. Tremaine Cooper is continuing with Poplar, and has picked up the Fork.

    For the midwesterners, Roebke's Run in Minnesota will be adding CIC* to their October event, with John designing. Incredible facility, wonderful courses, and some great additions constructed this autumn. Definitely worth the drive!

    ETA: clivers, if an event on the way home to Ontario is of interest to you, Jersey is very much worth considering. John, Morgan, and the people at HPNJ do a top-notch job, and you should have a very good experience.
    Last edited by Glenbaer; Dec. 29, 2012 at 05:47 PM.



  12. #12
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    The one year I went in 2011 to Jersey Fresh, it was rock hard. Turned into a major issue for me, as it turned out to be the first hint of Dante's hoof issues. And their aeration was spotty and inconsistent; there were many complaints about how it was managed that particular year. I heard it was much improved for 2012.

    That was for the CCI2*, which was quite a stiff course, and by far the most challenging of the CCI2* courses I have seen (which include CO HP in June and Galway in November). Not sure how the CIC2* was.

    Having said that, I am planning on going to Jersey Fresh again in the future, it was quite fun to be part of such a big profile event.

    And ahbaumgardner, I looove figuring out these qualifications things, my engineering background makes me love doing all the logic (or lack of!)



  13. #13
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    Easiest to hardest:
    1. FHI: Fairly straightforward, great galloping.
    2. Poplar: Same as above, but can be a touch more technical.
    3. The Fork: Big, varied questions including some tricky technical ones, great terrain & galloping.
    4. Toughest, in part because of terrain and being so early in the year, before most horses are really in the swing.
    I evented just for the Halibut.



  14. #14
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    What about Richlands in August for a CIC2*? I've heard great things about that venue and from my own personal view, a trip to Michigan would be fun (used to live there).



  15. #15
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    Richland has great courses- big, galloping, some serious questions but rides well. Pretty flat, but makes use of some terrain here and there. I've gone Advanced there twice and loved it. Really fun event all-around, the Saturday party is great!

    I'm guessing NeverTime's #5 is Red Hills. Early in the year, it does tend to catch out the under-prepared!
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~



  16. #16
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    I may go! I'd love to go there and it would be nice to have two CIC2* before the formidable goal of FH CCI2* ! My trainer always goes and that would make it more convenient.

    All of this is predicated on the lack of the usual abscesses or tweaks, to which "His Highness" is so prone!

    Quote Originally Posted by EventerAJ View Post
    Richland has great courses- big, galloping, some serious questions but rides well. Pretty flat, but makes use of some terrain here and there. I've gone Advanced there twice and loved it. Really fun event all-around, the Saturday party is great!

    I'm guessing NeverTime's #5 is Red Hills. Early in the year, it does tend to catch out the under-prepared!



  17. #17
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    Poplar is pretty inviting, i did it as my first CIC**, especially for the time of year but every time I've gone in the spring it rains...alot.

    Red Hills is beautiful, but pretty tough coursewise, and the terrain plays a part as well.

    I did Fair Hill CIC *** last spring which I think gave me huge insight into what to expect at the fall CCI*** later on. Very forward and gallopy, but the ground was very hard in the spring, which I was told is pretty normal for them.

    Never been to the Fork.



  18. #18
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    Oh and Richland is incredible, probably would be my number one TO GO TO if you can. Courses are challenging but fair, they always put 110% into the footing. Absolutly wonderful!



  19. #19
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    I LOooooove Richland!!! Will be going for sure, even if it is at novice on a Moose i kidnap from my bacl 40!!
    Thank you for all the insights



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by clivers View Post
    Am I correct in my understanding that we would need a CIC* or a CCI* "as a pair" before tackling a CIC**?
    Yes. All FEI qualifications must be as a pair.

    Quote Originally Posted by clivers View Post
    Am I also correct that we do not need to qualifiy for the CIC* as a pair?
    Yes. USEF qualifications may be obtained separately.



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