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  1. #1
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    Jan. 4, 2006
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    Orange, VA
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    59

    Default Non-Warmblood mare showing PSG: Registry options for foal?

    I have a mare who just started showing PSG last year. She is by *Nico and out of an Arabian. We are thinking of embryo-transfer so that she can continue showing next year. Are there any WB registries that use a mare's performance record to get her approved so that the foal can be registered WB?

    I am starting to look at potential sires for her, but not sure what registry to consider. I thought the Old/ISR offered this, but I looked at the website and could not figure it out. We breed Westfalens and host an annual inspection. Unfortunately we cannot go that route because of the mare's bloodlines. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2011
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    40

    Default

    Have you thought about taking her back to a warmblood-approved Arab stallion? Foal could be registered half-arab....



  3. #3
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    Aug. 15, 2010
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    Old/NA will register the foal into its ISR Registry as long as the stallion is approved Old/NA. Mare must be presented for approval (based on conformation and walk/trot on triangle - I haven't seen them disapprove a mare yet). I think RPSI will also approve such a mare (again, based on actual triangle presentation), if stallion is RPSI approved - not as sure on RPSI, I have seen them approve QH, Appy, and Paint mares, for lower books. Foal will end up in book II?

    AWS will also approve - they will do it based on performance, no need for presentation of the mare, registration (and premiums) based on quality of the foal. Nico was AWS approved.

    If you want registration in a Friesian cross registry, check out Friesian Heritage Horse Registry - large, active registry with optional inspections, USDF recognition (All Breeds), and show awards program that covers all different disciplines.

    Also agree, you can go half-Arab if you breed back to a purebred Arab. So it really comes down to - what stallion are you looking at? Probably easiest options are Old/NA (ISR) and AWS.

    If you are willing to accept a COP, you can even look at Hanoverian - I'm pretty sure Nico's owners have done that with at least one of their offspring? And pretty sure KWPN will do the same thing?
    Last edited by MysticOakRanch; Dec. 29, 2012 at 11:03 AM.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winsock View Post
    I have a mare who just started showing PSG last year. She is by *Nico and out of an Arabian. We are thinking of embryo-transfer so that she can continue showing next year. Are there any WB registries that use a mare's performance record to get her approved so that the foal can be registered WB?

    I am starting to look at potential sires for her, but not sure what registry to consider. I thought the Old/ISR offered this, but I looked at the website and could not figure it out. We breed Westfalens and host an annual inspection. Unfortunately we cannot go that route because of the mare's bloodlines. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
    I believe ISR/ONA would only consider the mare for its lowest mare book (pre-mare book II), and give the foal ISR papers.

    OHBS/GOV might consider her for its lowest mare book (also pre-mare book II), but if she is bred to a stallion approved by OHBS/GOV, they would give the foal Oldenburg registration papers.

    You may also have options with AWR. I am not hugely familiar with that registry, but there are folks on here that can give you some insight.



  5. #5
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    Jan. 4, 2006
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    Orange, VA
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    Default

    Thanks everyone! I have not started a list of potential sires yet because I need to figure out which registry to use. I definitely want to use a WB stallion, for a few different reasons. But especially because the owner of this mare is very tall and the mare is only 16h. So if you can find an Arabian thats about 17h, proven FEI Dressage, and moves like a WB, then I'd consider him! But until that happens, we are hoping to find a WB stallion to match nicely with the mare. Sounds like GOV or ISR/OLD might be the way to go. I was thinking that some of these registries would use a performance record.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2007
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    103

    Default

    Why not register FSA (Friesian Sporthorse Association)? This is where Nico was approved and where Hidden Promise registers their horses.

    www.friesiansporthorseassociation.com



  7. #7
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winsock View Post
    I definitely want to use a WB stallion, for a few different reasons.
    The foal could still be registered as a Friesian Sporthorse because it would be 25% Friesian.

    Is the mare pinto? Just curious, Nico was a favorite of mine (and pretty much every Friesian Sporthorse breeder who likes pinto)



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2011
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    966

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winsock View Post
    Thanks everyone! I have not started a list of potential sires yet because I need to figure out which registry to use. I definitely want to use a WB stallion, for a few different reasons. But especially because the owner of this mare is very tall and the mare is only 16h. So if you can find an Arabian thats about 17h, proven FEI Dressage, and moves like a WB, then I'd consider him! But until that happens, we are hoping to find a WB stallion to match nicely with the mare. Sounds like GOV or ISR/OLD might be the way to go. I was thinking that some of these registries would use a performance record.
    There a lovely Arabian Stallion in Germany. His name is IS Orlow ox
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9epmAh-GWM
    He seems to have very good offspring so far
    Owned proudly by my horses and the Pony
    Blacky by Sandro Hit, Amica by Amidou,
    Sarasota (Princess) by Don Schufro and Daysie by Sandro Hit
    and last not least Kassandra GRP by Burstye Orpheus



  9. #9
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    Jan. 4, 2006
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    Orange, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donatella View Post
    The foal could still be registered as a Friesian Sporthorse because it would be 25% Friesian.

    Is the mare pinto? Just curious, Nico was a favorite of mine (and pretty much every Friesian Sporthorse breeder who likes pinto)
    Yes, she's chestnut & white! I had not considered a Friesian Sporthorse Association. I'll look into that. Thank you.



  10. #10
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winsock View Post
    Yes, she's chestnut & white!
    Nice! I'd love to see pics!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    Jan. 21, 2003
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    Charles Town, WV
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    Default

    IF she meets the requirements for conformation and gaits, ISR will accept her into the PreMare Book. Where the performance record comes in is in the Star Award System (proof of quality). She would qualify for a Star Award under these rules:

    a) Star for Performance of the Mare: performance: mare must have competed successfully and achieved a first, second or third place in two competitions recognized by USEF. These competitions must be:

      • in dressage at 2nd level or higher with minimum scores of 60%
      • in jumping at classes of level 3 (1.10m) or higher
      • in eventing training level or higher
      • successfull completion of a Mare Performance Test with 70% or better

    The mare owner must provide USEF or USDF documentation of the results.

    OR:


    b) Star for Performance of Offspring: the requirements are:

      • two offspring (mares) which are entered into the ISR-OLDENBURG N.A. Premium Mare Book or
      • one offspring (stallion) which got the Certified Breeding License with ISR-OLDENBURG N.A. or
      • two offspring (sporthorses) which competed successfully and achieved a first, second or third place in three competitions recognized by the USEF. These competitions must be:
        • in dressage 2nd level or higher with minimum scores of 60%
        • in jumping at classes of level 3 (1.10m) or higher
        • in eventing training level or higher

    The mare owner must provide USEF or USDF documentation of the results.


    Mares can earn 3 stars. The first for scoring 105 or better as a Premium Mare at the inspection, the 2nd for Quality of Foals - must produce 3 Premium Foals, and the third as above for performance
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!



  12. #12
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    Jan. 4, 2006
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    Orange, VA
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    Default

    Thank you Tiki! So then, if I have her approved ISR, and breed her to an ISR/Old approved stallion, the foal could be registered Old?



  13. #13
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    Sep. 4, 2007
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    Crossville, TN
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winsock View Post
    Thank you Tiki! So then, if I have her approved ISR, and breed her to an ISR/Old approved stallion, the foal could be registered Old?
    The foal would get ISR papers.



  14. #14
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    Default

    We are all assuming there is documentation showing this mare's pedigree which is acceptable to the various registries, as if you don't have that it changes things.

    I think AWS is an option, too, isn't it, given Nico was approved there? I know nothing about its requirements, but it's a suggestion to look into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance_To_Oblivion View Post
    The foal would get ISR papers.
    As a plus, if a mare the foal could be approved for the Old books at inspection. Because the mare is 75% acceptable bloodlines (Arabian 50% and KWPN 25%) she would be eligible for the ISR Mare Book. Her offspring, if by ISR/Old approved stallions would then be eligible for ISR papers as DTO mentioned, but due to having greater than 75% approved bloodlines would be eligible at mare inspection to be placed in an Old book. http://www.isroldenburg.org/?pid=foals_eligibility
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 12, 2006
    Location
    Seville, FL
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    Default

    If you wanted to go the FSA route (Friesian Sporthorse Association), your mare is probably already eligible for Elite Book status based on dressage performance.

    Nico was Approved for Breeding with the FSA, and one of his offspring was the High Performance National Champion in 2009, and another Nico offspring was a USDF/FSA All-Breeds Champion for 2012.

    I've snipped the relevant portion from the Registration Guidelines here:

    Silver Elite: Performance Requirements for Silver Elite registration (one of the following):
    - Dressage: USDF recognized Open classes, minimum score of 62% at Third Level, or a minimum score of 60% or higher at Fourth Level.
    http://www.friesiansporthorseassocia...uidelines.html

    For the foal to be eligible for FSA registration you would have to breed to a Friesian or Friesian Sporthorse, because the registry requires a minimum 25% Friesian blood. (Just an FYI as you consider your options.)

    Here is a nice (and informative) article about Friesian Sporthorses from 2012, which includes a photo and mention of Nico:
    Friesian Sporthorse article

    And here is an article about Nico and the Christmas Eve barn fire. It is sad, but also neat to learn the 'story of Nico', how Sherry found and chose him, etc.:
    Nico article

    Gigha
    River Oaks Farm - home of the Elite Book Friesian Sporthorse Grand Prix dressage stallion Lexington - sire of four consecutive FSA National Inspection Champions. Endorsing the FSA.



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