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  1. #41
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    Dec. 28, 2012
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    Let's say, not-so-hypothetically, that I will be getting laid off from my job in the near future. Would that change the spousal support part of the equation?



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2001
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    Almost Aiken
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alterbecause View Post
    I think maybe the letter idea is best. The more "serious" the discussion, the worse it goes for us, or so it seems. He clams up, I get either sad or angry, and then cry, then he walks away.
    This tells me you need a counselor or mediator of some sort. The letter is not a bad idea, but he has to actually read and absorb it, not just skim it and get PO'd and toss it down.

    You may have to have a very short, to the point and one sided conversation with him that basically says:

    "I can't do this alone anymore, I am miserable, and either you come with me to this appointment I've made for us or I think I'm going to have to leave. "

    And then be prepared to stick to that.

    He HAS to be willing to listen to you and really hear what you are saying, and you have to be able to hear him too. A third person can diffuse a lot of the crying, or clamming up and walking out.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    Jun. 30, 2005
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    2,185

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    I have a friend that just told her husband of 20 years that she wants a divorce because of his mental illness (OCD and ADD) that he won't get treated for. Now that she wants a divorce he is willing to and getting help. She has been telling him for all those 20 years that he needed help and medication but he wouldn't listen. Now that he has he can't understand why she is still leaving!! It is amazing what walking out can do for someone to finally listen
    RIP Sucha Smooth Whiskey
    May 17,2004 - March 29, 2010
    RIP San Lena Peppy
    May 3, 1991 - March 11, 2010



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2007
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    Beside Myself ~ Western NY
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    6,365

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    Well I can say this in favor of a trial seperation. It would send him through the school of "this costs $X.XX"

    So yeah, if I were you and considering that, I would consult an attourney because he obviously has no idea what it is to manage finances and you need to be aware of what might happen should you seperate and he is unable to support himself and runs up debt. You don't want to decide you want him back but now he comes with a major price tag you have to pay off.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2003
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    Tennessee
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    How about getting him to sit down with you and make a budget. Do the "hey, honey, things are tight right now, so can we do a little planning?" thing. List your income and his current income, and then list expenses. If/when the bottom line is a negative number, ask him if he can contribute more by getting a supplemental income job, or by more music lessons/gigs. He may be in denial over his lack of financial contribution. I always try to assume the best until the worst kicks me in the butt. If he's just plain lazy and doesn't want to work, you may be better off without him. Good luck sorting things out.
    It's 2014. Do you know where your old horse is?



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug. 1, 2007
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    West Palm Beach, FL
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    JETSMOM has an excellent point. Is there an underlying reason that he "wont" go get a "real" job?

    i have a friend whose husband was let go from a job, and then bounced around to several jobs (fired from all of them after less than a year). Turns out he was failing drug tests because he is a recreational user.

    No bueno.
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.



  7. #47
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    Apr. 15, 2010
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    668

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    If you want to get a man into counciling, say you need to go for some issue of yours and it would be so meaningful to have him support you through this and etc. Then he doesn't get the idea there's something wong with him, he's there to help you, he'll be more likely to go.

    I call this 'if it seems like his idea or something he wants to do, you will get what you want without a big fight.'

    Horses teach us so very much...



  8. #48
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2008
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    Sonoma County, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alterbecause View Post
    Let's say, not-so-hypothetically, that I will be getting laid off from my job in the near future. Would that change the spousal support part of the equation?
    Alter, a lot depends on guidelines of your particular state.
    This question is well worth an hour of an attorney's time.

    I am in CA and currently going through a divorce and consulted with an attorney months before separating from my husband --- you really want to get your financial ducks in a row before making any waves, KWIM?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Apr. 15, 2010
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    668

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    When I lost my biz in the big crash of '08, I sure did not want to give up my carefree lifestyle and go get a real job. It was hard to do!! But when the reality of homelessness sets in, well,its quite a motivator. Its not easy to find jobs, but even a 'crappy' one is better than nothing. I scrub dog kennels 2x a week! I also do merchandising. All part time. Any port in a storm, I have a roof on my head. Bump him out of Fantasyland!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
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    Massachusetts
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    5,726

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alterbecause View Post
    I've been mulling over the "pack up and leave" idea for a long time now. I don't know if an ultimatum would work, but I'd really try that than just give up completely.
    It won't work to separate unless you are truly willing to call it quits. Separating with the notion that it will force him into a corner is going to be seen for what it is and he is likely to placate you long enough to get you to stay put and then go back to the same old thing.

    If you feel you are ready to go, then go and mean it. And then it remains to be seen how hard he works to try and get you back. And if you choose to go back, once you are apart.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    Apr. 16, 2002
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    ontario, canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alterbecause View Post
    I completely agree, BuddyRoo.

    My problem is that I'll slog on in an abhorrent situation for far too long. And I'll do it without ever truly voicing my dissent. I let it build up, and I take on more and more, until I'm so resentful I just have to get out. I've done that before, with a job.

    However, I won't fall into poverty and debt-collection and live the rest of my life like that. I watched my parents live like that and I've worked VERY hard to keep it from being my life. No matter how much I love him - if he says "I understand that we'll be poor, but I just won't get a job" I will leave.

    I need to tell him that this is how I feel (which is so very hard for me to do). And then I need to follow up on it. He pretty much shuts down once things get emotional; and I tend to bottle things up for so long that when I DO broach the subject, I get very emotional.
    Sit down and write him a letter, then. It may take some time, but that way you can make sure that you get it all out - the good (the many things you love about him), the bad (lack of work/money), how it makes you feel and your concerns about the future. People often to complain that emails/letters lack inflection or tone, but they can be a really good way to make sure that you get everything out. That emotions don't get in the way of having the very necessary discussion.

    Obviously, you then need to have a discussion. But write him a letter that lays it all out, and then fix a time (in the letter, even) to sit down and talk about it. He can then have time to do his own reflection and figure out what he wants/is willing to do about it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Dec. 28, 2012
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    14

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    Thanks, everyone, for the input. I really do appreciate it. I'm still thinking things over, but it's obvious just from reading my own posts on this topic that we have a major communication failure in our relationship, which is probably just as big of an issue as the non-employment thing. *sigh*


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
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    11,372

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    You know what? You do your best with the tools you have. Most of us don't grow up being handed lots of good tools.

    You have to pay for that.

    My toolbox is now more filled and while it doesn't solve everything, it gives me more options.

    Get a toolbox.

    Whether you stay in this relationship or not, you have to be able to communicate your needs and wants better. Just for your own sake.

    I'm not a relationship expert. Hell, I think about divorce some days. But you need tools.

    They are out there. THey just cost money.

    ((hugs))
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 1999
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    CA
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    3,195

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    Did you ever talk about finances before you got married? Is this the only issue or are there other things making you pull away from him?

    The biggest red flag seems to be that you don't seem comfortable talking to him. He should be the person you can rely on to have tough conversations with, when they are needed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    Jun. 26, 2009
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    81

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    Does he live where the music industry is - Nashville etc? Does he have an agent? Does he write music and market it? What does he do to make contact with people in the industry? It's hard to work in any field, if the field is on the other side of the country. If Johnny Cash had stayed in Dyes, Arkansas, there would be no Johnny Cash. If he's going to be a musician, he has to be where the music is and he has to take control of his career and hustle. You don't get discovered in any field. You knock on enough doors until one opens. If he's not willing to do that, then he's a dillitante, which is fine actually. The way to solve your relationship problem is simple: separate bank accounts. Your money is yours and his money is his. If he doesn't have enough, well tough. You're there to be his wife, not his mother. He's an adult. He can make his own decisions and live with the consequences.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2002
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    Ontario, Canada
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    I empathize with you, OP. I've been in 2 failed relationships with guys who seemed to have it all together and then turned into unemployed losers without any ambition.

    The one guy did get a good job months after I left him, but I was so done with the relationship and other issues that it didn't make a difference at that point. Ex #2 became a drug addict and there is no way I would even consider taking him back.

    It is so frustrating to try to run a household on your own when your SO is barely contributing.

    I agree with the other poster who suggested drawing up a budget and a plan that shows how much money you need him to contribute monthly. It would give him a goal to work toward and make it clear just how little he is helping and how much you ARE helping.

    I've pretty much decided that if I ever live with a man again, we will have separate finances. Split bills 50/50 regardless of what each partner makes. I know that it works out just fine for some couples to have a joint account, but I am so tired of working for my pay cheque and having a deadbeat drain it.

    Best of luck to you. I do want to add that both of my relationships were suffering from much more than money problems. I hope that since you both have so much together that you can salvage what is there and work through this.



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
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    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
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    11,438

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alterbecause View Post
    Thanks, everyone, for the input. I really do appreciate it. I'm still thinking things over, but it's obvious just from reading my own posts on this topic that we have a major communication failure in our relationship, which is probably just as big of an issue as the non-employment thing. *sigh*
    That may well be, but if you have been the main support of this family unit for as long as it sounds, even modestly successful attempts to address the job issue should be met with respectful discussion and some effort on your husband's part, IMO. It sounds to me like your husband has learned that he can shut down and refuse to engage in any sort of problem solving, more or less without consequence.

    If you find it easier to write a letter, then write the letter. At the very least, it may help you organize your thoughts. But at the end of the day I think you are going to simply have to have the discussion, and find out whether or not your husband will engage in solving this problem with you. If not, personally I would leave.

    I think it would be perfectly fair for you to acknowledge that you have difficulty raising this subject, and you can reasonably apologize for the way you bring it up, the level of emotion you bring to the discussion, or the fact that you have possibly failed to accurately communicated the gravity of this issue to him in the past. However, at this point you need to tell him that after a great deal of consideration, you have come to realize that the current situation is no longer acceptable to you. You can say that you do love him (if you do,) but that you are no longer willing to take on such a disproportionate share of the financial burdens you have as a couple, and give him whatever amount of time you feel is reasonable to come up with the means to contribute either X dollars or X percent of your joint expenses each month. Note that you are giving him time to come up with MONEY, not a plan.

    If you get the excuses he's used in the past, ("But I'm teaching 3 lessons a week!" or "But I played 2 gigs last weekend!") then I think you have to simply say, "Yes, but they only paid $50. Our joint expenses are "Y" each month, and if you are not willing to contribute at least "Z" then this is not going to work."

    Then I think you have to explain, as calmly as possible, that this is a non-negotiable position for you. You have done your best to support this guy's musical career in the hopes that it would eventually become a career that would allow him to help support the two of you. It has not, and now he has a choice to make.

    For whatever it's worth, I will remind you that lots and lots of people do things for a living that they are not passionate about, in order to make a living. As my father always pointed out, "that's why they have to pay you." They pursue their passions - music, horses, tennis, whatever - outside of working hours.

    It is not unreasonable for you to expect that your husband will contribute more to the financial wellbeing of your family, and I hope you will stand up for yourself and find out if he is willing to do so.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2006
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    3,308

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    Good grief. How does his inability to understand that he needs a job to pay the bills become YOUR fault because you don't communicate?

    This is NOT your fault.

    You are not a bad person for wanting out of this relationship.

    In 11 years, this is who he is. If you are with him because you think more communication will help him understand that he needs to get a job and contribute to an adult relationship, then, by all means, have at it. However, honestly, if an adult cannot make the connection between working and having money, it is not a relationship communication issue.

    On the financial end of things, my personal experience was that I never thought I could make it without my husband (and he contributed $80K a year). However, two and a half years later, I still have the houses and the horses, so it can be done.

    Good luck.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Jan. 31, 2003
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    18,472

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    So many people have made good points, I have just a few to add.

    There are a lot of ways to be involved in the music industry. As Coreene said, not everyone can be Eddie Van Halen. I would consider having a very candid conversation about this. If he is willing to explore other ways to make money in the industry, and you love him, then give it a time frame. If he is not, OR he cannot/will not discuss it, you have little choice left.

    Regardless, split your finances now. Like, right now this moment. Hand him a list of the bills and what half of them will be and inform him he will be paying his half in february. HOW HE DOES THAT IS NOT YOUR CONCERN. Do not counsel him. Give him a chance to grow up and grow a set without your help or interference. You know what to do if he refuses. He can be exploring the music industry from a realistic place and work at McDonalds if that is what it takes to pay the bills.

    Do not let him or anyone else make the economy the issue. There is *always* work available for those who will do it. This may mean standing outside the convenience store waiting to get picked up as day labor. It might help him build some confidence and character to realize that no matter what, he CAN provide for himself. He needs to know that.

    last, Canaqua made an excellent point. It may be that you are supposed to split ho to grow up. It happens. It sucks to train a man for the next woman LOL but heck, someone has to do it. And next time around, you will pick a man with a work ethic. For a gozliion reasons, it just has to be that way and its not all about money.

    Good luck!
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #60
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    Dec. 29, 2007
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    954

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondindykin View Post
    I have a friend that just told her husband of 20 years that she wants a divorce because of his mental illness (OCD and ADD) that he won't get treated for. Now that she wants a divorce he is willing to and getting help. She has been telling him for all those 20 years that he needed help and medication but he wouldn't listen. Now that he has he can't understand why she is still leaving!! It is amazing what walking out can do for someone to finally listen
    My alcoholic father tried that trick when my mother finally left after 25 years. He would have done anything to keep her. Then. Not the first 25 years though. Never did get it together. Cancer killed him before the booze but I'm not sure which would have been worse.
    "Those who know the least often know it the loudest."


    1 members found this post helpful.

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