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  1. #21
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    It doesn't get you anywhere that the current rules don't. Under current rules, if you are caught, there are consequences, including suspension. But there are no criminal charges brought, and no legal ramifications. The CoC doesn't change that.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com



  2. #22
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    Dec. 13, 2012
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    Fredericksburg, va
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    It is a HUGE shame. Hunter trainers SUCK! They suck at riding and they suck at training!!!!!!! The only way most can win is to drug with magnesium.

    But its really tough to get any sanctions with teeth against these guys. The USEF looks the other way. Hunter divisions need something like the tough FEI regulations that are enforced for this bull sh!$ to stop.

    Just take a peek at the nefarious actions of "hunter breeder" Jill Burnell .


    Its about the $$$$$$.

    So why does this have to be degrading to ALL hunter trainers/riders.. Yea a lot of hunter trainers do horrible things, but some hunter riders do know how to ride and train their horses correctly without medication, being rude to people who prefer hunters over jumpers etc is rude.
    First and foremost about the horse.
    Rose Bud Ranch Sporthorses
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    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    It doesn't get you anywhere that the current rules don't. Under current rules, if you are caught, there are consequences, including suspension. But there are no criminal charges brought, and no legal ramifications. The CoC doesn't change that.
    I think it is quite apparent to everyone that the current rules dont do anything to stop drugging in the hunter divisions!

    But alas, the sport of "tradition" finds itself incapable of making any serious changes for the better. blech.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosebudranch View Post
    So why does this have to be degrading to ALL hunter trainers/riders.. Yea a lot of hunter trainers do horrible things, but some hunter riders do know how to ride and train their horses correctly without medication, being rude to people who prefer hunters over jumpers etc is rude.
    A little dose of cold reality is not being rude.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2009
    Location
    south eastern US
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    2,519

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    It's almost ALWAYS about the money. It is in every discipline, every breed, every level. It isn't just about hunters, TWH, QH or Arabs. Follow the damn money. It no longer suprises me the depravity people will stoop to for the almighty dollar.
    "My biggest fear is that when I die my husband is going to try to sell all my horses and tack for what I told him they cost."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2005
    Location
    Northfield MN
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    There are plenty of good trainers and riders who don't cheat. They are the ones who excel at selecting and training horses who naturally fit the type.

    A good start to catching the cheaters would be mandatory testing of the winners in all money classes. I can understand that testing every horse is cost prohibitive, but as the rules stand, any horse on the grounds has the same odds of being tested as the winner of the 25K Hunter Derby. If success automatically meant a drug test, maybe the risk would outweigh the advantage of drugging.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Sep. 14, 2000
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    Goochland, VA
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    My point was that signing a CoC such as the one illustrated gets you nowhere further than the current rules.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2010
    Posts
    229

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    It doesn't get you anywhere that the current rules don't. Under current rules, if you are caught, there are consequences, including suspension. But there are no criminal charges brought, and no legal ramifications. The CoC doesn't change that.
    If they had to provide the requested information, then perhaps the information needed to pursue criminal charges, where justified, would be available.

    If they don't provide the information, then by suspending them and banning them from shows for violating the agreed-in-advance CoC, one might hope their "business" is adversely affected. Certainly better then nothing, which seems to be the current situation.

    The situation described, where the trainer refuses to answer and then USEF says they don't have information to discipline, cannot be allowed to continue.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2007
    Location
    Canada
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    4,049

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    Discusting. I can't believe drugging is tolerated like that. If that were a dressage show you would never see the inside of a ring again.
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  10. #30
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donella View Post
    Discusting. I can't believe drugging is tolerated like that. If that were a dressage show you would never see the inside of a ring again.
    Please.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2004
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    NASCAR HELL
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    To say that hunter trainers suck as riders is plain stupid. Really? I started and will probably end as a hunter trainer. I have done alittle of everything. People have preferences.

    Let's try and focus>>>>>the problem is drugging and getting away with it. Now the problem is what can we do about skewering those who do it.
    The rider casts his heart over the fence,
    the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

    –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nod Hill Farm View Post
    If they had to provide the requested information, then perhaps the information needed to pursue criminal charges, where justified, would be available.

    If they don't provide the information, then by suspending them and banning them from shows for violating the agreed-in-advance CoC, one might hope their "business" is adversely affected. Certainly better then nothing, which seems to be the current situation.

    The situation described, where the trainer refuses to answer and then USEF says they don't have information to discipline, cannot be allowed to continue.

    Hehe, E Mandarino WAS suspended, it didnt do a thing to her business.

    Big hunter trainers are suspended for stacking nsaids all the time. Big ones. They just send #2 for the month, and then they enjoy their vacation.

    The clients just keep lining up for them.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by europa View Post
    To say that hunter trainers suck as riders is plain stupid. Really? I started and will probably end as a hunter trainer. I have done alittle of everything. People have preferences.

    Let's try and focus>>>>>the problem is drugging and getting away with it. Now the problem is what can we do about skewering those who do it.
    Well ok then,,,, trainers that cant ride/train, drug! Its so simple.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Oct. 6, 2004
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    NASCAR HELL
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    If I were the parent I would sue her for child endangerment. That pony could have died on course. AWFUL

    In what world is this right? I am soo sick and tired of the law never protecting the poor animals. For heaven's sake sick psychos like Spinks get away with almost no punishment and then you have these people....I mean really????

    Things have GOT to change.
    The rider casts his heart over the fence,
    the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

    –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2009
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    131

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    Pony died from a "lung disease"? Pshhht. Poor guy.
    Von Hendrix aka Jimi



  16. #36
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    "Ms. Mandarino filed an unsuccessful complaint against the federation’s general counsel with the Kentucky Bar Association and has filed a lawsuit accusing an online publication, Rate My Horse PRO, and various individuals of conspiring to harm her business. Rate My Horse PRO, which says it is an advocate for horses, has filed papers seeking to have that lawsuit dismissed"

    Bolding is mine: The various individuals she sued include people on COTH who were posting when the Humble incidenct first made it to the Hunter/Jumper forums, So not only do these POS get away with things like this, they also sue everyone and their brother for talking about it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Oct. 6, 2004
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    WOW most people would hang their head in shame and lay low till it passed over.

    CLASSY don't cha think?
    The rider casts his heart over the fence,
    the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

    –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
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    18,658

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    When people like Scott Stewart get suspended for one lousy month you know there is a major problem. He's still considered one of, if not THE, "best" hunter trainers and yet he can't/won't follow even the lax USEF Rules.

    Just adopt the FEI rules and be done with it.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    5,260

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    Any time I scream on here that I have a zero tolerance for drugging show horses, there are a few show hunter people that are quick to slap my hand for the comment.

    Go home and train the horse
    Go home and train the RIDER
    Go home and REST the horse before reaching for pain meds
    RETIRE the horse if it can no longer perform the tasks asked of it without being drugged

    I have never shown a horse with anything more in its system besides a monthly joint injection (for a fetlock damaged by racing).

    I would like a zero tolerance policy, but there are too many greedy jerks in the horse show world and it will never happen.

    Good bye horsemenship and PUTTING THE HORSE FIRST.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov. 29, 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    778

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    My guess, based on the symptoms, is that the pony had an allergic reaction to one of the injections. Those are the symptoms of anaphalactic shock, which can kill a horse in very short order if epinephrine isn't administered.



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