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  1. #41
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    Of the 10 Lowe's built in my area, the one that required union workers (Philadelphia area) was the only one that went over budget and over timeline. I helped build the other nine.

    Helped a friend with a trade show at the Philadelphia Convention Center. Could not carry your stuff past the door because that was a 'union job'. So we waited 45min for someone to take our stuff to our booth. Coudn't plug computer into outlet because the Electric Union does that - would have been a 20min wait, but turned into an almost hour wait because we were right next to water pipes for the fire supression system so we had to wait for someone from the plumbing union to be available to come over and stand there while the electric union worker plugged in the computer.

    Local teacher's union was having problems because everyone was being forced to be part of the union, but half the teachers did not want to be part of the union due to having opposing views on pay and benefits.

    Friend's husband was essentially unemployed for over a month due to union strike because the union leaders refused to budge over something that the rest of the union was willing to give in to.

    Quote Originally Posted by FitToBeTied View Post
    It is a great myth that union workers make more than non-union workers in the same job. When adjusted for cost of living the non-union worker actually makes more in those god awful right to work states.

    The people that argue that union workers make more never use the COLA adjusted numbers. So you get comparisons of a worker in NYC with a worker in poducnk, Alabama.
    I completely disagree with this. At the Port of Wilmington, union workers make $60K to over $100K per year. They drive a forklift around. My brother works as a software engineer and makes about $60K/year and my sister, the nurse, makes a bit less than that. Someone who worked at my office for a brief time was forced to go from making over $80K/year to about $30K/year because 15 years of getting overpaid to put slot A into tab B with the local auto workers union left him with 15 years in the workforce and no marketable skills.

    So, yes, unions do make more than non-union workers in comparable areas, often to the detriment of the economy and their personal well-being. At the port, the workers live in the same neighborhoods they grew up in and often squander their money. Their children do not grow up in better neighborhoods, going to better schools and looking to go to college and get a better education than their parents. They often plan to just work in the union like their parents did.

    No, I don't like unions. I find them dictatorish and expecting everything for nothing.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajierene View Post
    Of the 10 Lowe's built in my area, the one that required union workers (Philadelphia area) was the only one that went over budget and over timeline. I helped build the other nine.

    Helped a friend with a trade show at the Philadelphia Convention Center. Could not carry your stuff past the door because that was a 'union job'. So we waited 45min for someone to take our stuff to our booth. Coudn't plug computer into outlet because the Electric Union does that - would have been a 20min wait, but turned into an almost hour wait because we were right next to water pipes for the fire supression system so we had to wait for someone from the plumbing union to be available to come over and stand there while the electric union worker plugged in the computer.

    Local teacher's union was having problems because everyone was being forced to be part of the union, but half the teachers did not want to be part of the union due to having opposing views on pay and benefits.

    Friend's husband was essentially unemployed for over a month due to union strike because the union leaders refused to budge over something that the rest of the union was willing to give in to.



    I completely disagree with this. At the Port of Wilmington, union workers make $60K to over $100K per year. They drive a forklift around. My brother works as a software engineer and makes about $60K/year and my sister, the nurse, makes a bit less than that. Someone who worked at my office for a brief time was forced to go from making over $80K/year to about $30K/year because 15 years of getting overpaid to put slot A into tab B with the local auto workers union left him with 15 years in the workforce and no marketable skills.

    So, yes, unions do make more than non-union workers in comparable areas, often to the detriment of the economy and their personal well-being. At the port, the workers live in the same neighborhoods they grew up in and often squander their money. Their children do not grow up in better neighborhoods, going to better schools and looking to go to college and get a better education than their parents. They often plan to just work in the union like their parents did.

    No, I don't like unions. I find them dictatorish and expecting everything for nothing.
    Ahem, did you ever belong to a union?
    If not, whatever you have to add here won't be welcome, because you don't know anything about unions, if you didn't belong to a union.

    At least that is what I was just told.



  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Ahem, did you ever belong to a union?
    If not, whatever you have to add here won't be welcome, because you don't know anything about unions, if you didn't belong to a union.

    At least that is what I was just told.
    Wait, do you have to belong to a union to post to this thread? Just checkin...

    Bluey, your flank was unprotected.... The liberals were circling.



  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajierene View Post

    Local teacher's union was having problems because everyone was being forced to be part of the union, but half the teachers did not want to be part of the union due to having opposing views on pay and benefits.

    Friend's husband was essentially unemployed for over a month due to union strike because the union leaders refused to budge over something that the rest of the union was willing to give in to.



    I completely disagree with this. At the Port of Wilmington, union workers make $60K to over $100K per year. They drive a forklift around. My brother works as a software engineer and makes about $60K/year and my sister, the nurse, makes a bit less than that. Someone who worked at my office for a brief time was forced to go from making over $80K/year to about $30K/year because 15 years of getting overpaid to put slot A into tab B with the local auto workers union left him with 15 years in the workforce and no marketable skills.

    So, yes, unions do make more than non-union workers in comparable areas, often to the detriment of the economy and their personal well-being. At the port, the workers live in the same neighborhoods they grew up in and often squander their money. Their children do not grow up in better neighborhoods, going to better schools and looking to go to college and get a better education than their parents. They often plan to just work in the union like their parents did.

    No, I don't like unions. I find them dictatorish and expecting everything for nothing.
    Well, I 'm not sure what your wait was about....I have had union jobs go overbudget AND non-union jobs go overbudget (any project that does not get built on time is "overbudget") so I am not sure how the contracts were written or what exactly happened to create the issues. You seem to be stating that it is the "unions fault" which you have no basis for stating.

    "Union workers" includes many workers inclusive of civil, electrical mechanical engineers who yes, typically make $100,000.00 union or non-union. You also are making claims based on second, third and other remote parties. Not much in the way of any facts.....


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Wait, do you have to belong to a union to post to this thread? Just checkin...

    Bluey, your flank was unprotected.... The liberals were circling.
    Thanks for the reinforcement.
    I thought I was all alone, everyone else here a union member.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajierene View Post
    So, yes, unions do make more than non-union workers in comparable areas, often to the detriment of the economy and their personal well-being. At the port, the workers live in the same neighborhoods they grew up in and often squander their money. Their children do not grow up in better neighborhoods, going to better schools and looking to go to college and get a better education than their parents. They often plan to just work in the union like their parents did.
    Judgemental, much?

    Those union kids might not share your values, but they like their lives and their standard of living enough to want to stay in and be part of the community in which they grew up. They've seen their parents have decent lives with vacations and family time and home ownership, and as adults, they want the same security in their lives.

    Union labour, which you look down on, is not necessarily unskilled or menial or worthless. Jobs like machining require great skill, experience and attention to detail. Even driving a forklift in a particular setting can be a challenge, in terms of safety, security and/or efficiency.

    And none of this has anything to do with ALEC, except that a lot of people have tasted their Kool-Aid on union issues, at least to the extent that they can't even think rationally about the role of unions anymore.


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  7. #47
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    Soo,, I read that ALEC thing, clearly written by a lefty. And i find it funny, and eventhough I have never heard of "ALEC" these types of lobying organizations are abundant. They probably outnumber corporations in the US. So I dont really see what the fuss is about? ATT giving $300k ( which is a mere pittance) to who for what?

    Dont care.



  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Wait, do you have to belong to a union to post to this thread? Just checkin...

    Bluey, your flank was unprotected.... The liberals were circling.
    Knowledge is power and keeps BBs from becoming just another bitch session with nothing thought provoking to offer. I guess some posters just like babbling about all that they don't know about in this world.

    Yes, it is all the unions fault...sound better Bluey and Noms , that is the limit to both of your thought process...

    Edit: Don't care then don't post.



  9. #49
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    Oh OK, so if I dont agree with you , then dont bother posting? Huh.



  10. #50
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    How about trying to post some facts for once and clearly explained thoughts instead of coming in and looking for an opportunity to feel superior by name calling. As much as I don't like Bluey's unending "I heard, friends tell me" statements, at least she tries to engage civilly.


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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    How about trying to post some facts for once and clearly explained thoughts instead of coming in and looking for an opportunity to feel superior by name calling. As much as I don't like Bluey's unending "I heard, friends tell me" statements, at least she tries to engage civilly.
    Well, I happen to be there when they were beating on someone for not doing what the union wanted.
    What else you want, to tell you the names of my union teacher friend's, so you can to trade stories and see what they know you don't they told me about?

    I bet that one PBS story from the Newshour yesterday is on their website, where the teachers were talking about not belonging to the teacher's union and that being a plus for their school system.

    I have personal stories of union workers doing shoddy work and it being shrugged because no one could do anything about it.
    Some of it was while they were building my house.
    I have to say that the electricians, that were union, were good at their work.



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Knowledge is power and keeps BBs from becoming just another bitch session with nothing thought provoking to offer. I guess some posters just like babbling about all that they don't know about in this world.

    Yes, it is all the unions fault...sound better Bluey and Noms , that is the limit to both of your thought process...

    Edit: Don't care then don't post.
    Should we all assume that you are employed by ATT? And by deregulating the company your job is in peril? Come on, add something to the ALEC thing other than GOP sucks and corporations are EVIL.
    Last edited by Noms; Dec. 29, 2012 at 06:52 PM. Reason: sp



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Soo,, I read that ALEC thing, clearly written by a lefty. And i find it funny, and eventhough I have never heard of "ALEC" these types of lobying organizations are abundant. They probably outnumber corporations in the US. So I dont really see what the fuss is about? ATT giving $300k ( which is a mere pittance) to who for what?

    Dont care.
    If you don't care, then why get involved at all in a discussion of ALEC?

    That reporter is not a 'lefty'. Ideology isn't his thing; investigative journalism is. That you think he's a 'lefty' is quite telling -- perhaps you have trouble recognizing fact-based reporting.

    If you can't see what the fuss is all about, you deserve the America you're getting.


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  14. #54
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    Bluey--don't know what you're talking about. But, anecdotes aren't really the issue here.

    No one is arguing there isn't corruption and bad things in unions. I have told you many times I hate my union, but it's a necessary evil, and I am now infiltrating them to see what trouble I can cause by exposing all the lies and corruption--I know a lot of people with a lot of facts, and I will do that.

    I'm sure there are non union teachers that are OK with it. There is a teacher on here who I will not bring into it unless they care to share personal stories, who is very good at her job, but was fired in a non-union state because she did not two the right wing agenda. And, it is AGAINST the LAW to force anyone to join a union. No one has to and can get their dues back, so this whole issue is ridiculous.

    But, that's not the issue. The issue is pretty much everything going on right now in this country. Are we going to become a fascist country with big money corporations ruling because it's " free market," or are we going to stand by some basic human rights? Those little kids in India who work 12 hours a day taking apart used needles for $1 a day are non-union, but it is capitalism.


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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    If you don't care, then why get involved at all in a discussion of ALEC?

    That reporter is not a 'lefty'. Ideology isn't his thing; investigative journalism is. That you think he's a 'lefty' is quite telling -- perhaps you have trouble recognizing fact-based reporting.

    If you can't see what the fuss is all about, you deserve the America you're getting.
    I dont care about ALEC, but I do care about corporations.

    And, that article IS a very lefty piece, you just cant recognize it as such.



  16. #56
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    Wow. You and Romney should get together and have a love fest. You care about corporations, he thinks they are people, and I bet you're all for Citizens United so "they" can have all of the "rights" of people, but there's no actual person to take responsibility.



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Bluey--don't know what you're talking about. But, anecdotes aren't really the issue here.

    No one is arguing there isn't corruption and bad things in unions. I have told you many times I hate my union, but it's a necessary evil, and I am now infiltrating them to see what trouble I can cause by exposing all the lies and corruption--I know a lot of people with a lot of facts, and I will do that.

    I'm sure there are non union teachers that are OK with it. There is a teacher on here who I will not bring into it unless they care to share personal stories, who is very good at her job, but was fired in a non-union state because she did not two the right wing agenda. And, it is AGAINST the LAW to force anyone to join a union. No one has to and can get their dues back, so this whole issue is ridiculous.

    But, that's not the issue. The issue is pretty much everything going on right now in this country. Are we going to become a fascist country with big money corporations ruling because it's " free market," or are we going to stand by some basic human rights? Those little kids in India who work 12 hours a day taking apart used needles for $1 a day are non-union, but it is capitalism.
    So, I answer some of your questions and what do I get?
    The answers are dismissed with a wave of the hand and the subject is changed.
    Well, didn't expect any different, really.



  18. #58
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    No, READ. I didn't dismiss you. All you did was say more of "my teacher friends say" which are still not actual facts. I gave you some anecdotal evidence, which are still not facts.

    What I did was get back to the POINT. Unions, ALEC, big corps., Citizens United is all the same issue. Do we vote for the best government the corporations can buy and become facist and pretend it's capitalism, free enterprise, or whatever you want to call it, or do we become a first world nation that cares about it's people and has some basic human rights.

    This is why people start ignoring and dismissing you. You don't read and continue on.



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Well, I 'm not sure what your wait was about....I have had union jobs go overbudget AND non-union jobs go overbudget (any project that does not get built on time is "overbudget") so I am not sure how the contracts were written or what exactly happened to create the issues. You seem to be stating that it is the "unions fault" which you have no basis for stating.

    "Union workers" includes many workers inclusive of civil, electrical mechanical engineers who yes, typically make $100,000.00 union or non-union. You also are making claims based on second, third and other remote parties. Not much in the way of any facts.....
    I'm thinking you have never experienced Philadelphia unions. We had to wait for someone to walk over and plug a plug into an outlet. This is how Philadelphia unions work and when you are at the end of a long trade show and have to wait for someone to come around and unplug same plug from outlet and you have everything else packed up and just sit and wait for 45min, it leaves a sour taste.

    I live in an area where there are union and non-union of the same profession and I MUCH prefer working with/hiring union employees. We can order laptops through my company - the union ones are the same type but twice the price because they are union made. Yeah, I'm not getting a union made laptop.



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Oh OK, so if I dont agree with you , then dont bother posting? Huh.
    Wow, talk about lack of reading comprehension....

    "Don't care" so Don't post if you don't care.....wow.



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