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  1. #1
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    Default ALEC

    Can we talk about this corporately funded organization which is composed of Republican state legislators and promotes legislation that is friendly to their sponsors?

    I am pissed because our state legislature (now Republican super majority) deregulated AT&T in July. AT&T funds ALEC to the tune of 300K per year, and the deregulation bill is an ALEC initiative.

    It's gutted all PSC control over telecommunications here.
    Last edited by vineyridge; Dec. 28, 2012 at 11:43 AM.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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  2. #2
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    Default

    This is one of those things that is so awful, no one really believes it.

    Least of all, religious conservatives and tea partiers, the most idealistic of voters.

    Could the GOP really allow corporations to write anti-consumer and anti-union legislations? You mean our elected representatives are letting corporations adapt government laws and regulations to serve them and not us?

    Yep.

    It's the side of politics no one wants to acknowledge, that the basic conservative principal of lowering taxes and cutting off the use of tax dollars to support the lazy, is really a front for lowering taxes and funneling tax money to benefit corporations.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    14 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Corporations are people too, my friend. Our republic is sold.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    This is one of those things that is so awful, no one really believes it.

    Least of all, religious conservatives and tea partiers, the most idealistic of voters.

    Could the GOP really allow corporations to write anti-consumer and anti-union legislations? You mean our elected representatives are letting corporations adapt government laws and regulations to serve them and not us?

    Yep.

    It's the side of politics no one wants to acknowledge, that the basic conservative principal of lowering taxes and cutting off the use of tax dollars to support the lazy, is really a front for lowering taxes and funneling tax money to benefit corporations.
    Unions are such altar boys, right?

    They never influence anyone, the naive workers think they are in for them, when they are, like any other acquiring power, one more of the old boys network.

    That is how the game is played, has always, in all societies you care to look under the table at what really makes them function as they do.
    You either play along or get eaten.
    Today even more so, at a global level, not just national.

    I agree, scary when you are sitting out there, helpless, looking at the light at the end of the tunnel, wondering if it is indeed light, or a train about to run over you.

    Working in agriculture teaches you oh so much, as I am sure does in other fields, where what is going on at the top will greatly affect you.


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  5. #5
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    Default

    Yes, california did that with the utilities market and we got Enron.

    Yes, the republicans sold out to corporations and the democrats did but to a lessor degree. Deregulation is never what it appears.

    Unions work for the people paying their dues but it would seem that members of the GOP like to try and paint them as corporations, which is too funny !


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Yes, california did that with the utilities market and we got Enron.

    Yes, the republicans sold out to corporations and the democrats did but to a lessor degree. Deregulation is never what it appears.

    Unions work for the people paying their dues but it would seem that members of the GOP like to try and paint them as corporations, which is too funny !

    I have known two unions very close up, a steel union in NYS and a teacher's union and I can say I was underwhelmed with how they "worked for the people paying their dues".


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  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I have known two unions very close up, a steel union in NYS and a teacher's union and I can say I was underwhelmed with how they "worked for the people paying their dues".
    Bluey, I know you have good reasons for your convictions, but so do I.

    My mother found herself in 1965 with four kids to support and no alimony. I had three dresses to wear to school. School was five days a week, so that meant having to rotate. Taco Bell was a big payday splurge. Then my mom hired on at a big aircraft corporation in a union job and our standard of living increased dramatically. My story could be told by most of my friends. One parent with no college degree could buy a house and support a family with a union job.

    Union busting is not about increasing profits. It's about increasing the share of profits to directly benefit the owners, managers, and stockholders by decreasing worker pay and benefits.

    Countries that lack a strong middle class lack stability. Unions fueled the rise of the middle class in the US. You can trace the correlation between the death of the unions with the shrinking of the middle class.
    Last edited by Bristol Bay; Dec. 29, 2012 at 11:58 AM. Reason: iPad autocorrect surrealism and then for clarity
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


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  8. #8
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    Default

    Welcome to politics. And there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. If you can't see it among Democrats, you're just not looking because you don't want to see. Or, it's a case of "it's OK when these guys do it because they're selling out to the right people, but it's wrong when those guys do it because they're selling out to the wrong people."

    I'm pretty cynical and pessimistic on this subject. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it or if it can be fixed. I used to think we could change things by electing people who were in it for the good of the country instead of for themselves, but I don't even believe that anymore.

    For one thing, even good people seem to be corrupted by the system once they become a part of it. For another, Americans now have widely divergent ideas of what "the good of the country" actually is.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Default

    My mother waited tables and belonged to a union. She had health insurance and a pension when she retired.

    Bluey, what exactly is your issue with unions ? You seem to make statements with no facts. What were you "underwhelmed" about ?


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    YEah, the anti-union "right to work" (screw workers) movement is APPALLING. Is it in only in CA where they have those stupid, lying right to work ads about some poor union worker "forced" to give dues to political causes? That's a lie. It's against the law. As I've said before, I hate my teacher's union, but it's a necessary evil.

    The lies of the "right to work" movement and the lie in it's name reminds me so much of the "save marriage" lie of prop. 8. Just change the name to opposite of what it does, and stupid people will follow.

    Unions did horrible things like stopped little kids from working in factories, gave limited work hours, safe working conditions, and all those things. As with ANYTHING, there is corruption. But, the unions protect the workers and give them rights to bargain as a group, which is cheaper than a lawyer or a head hunter, or whatever. I don't see any horrible legislation and laws coming from unions. The unions helped keep a strong middle class who could work and pay their bills. It's no a coincidence the decline of the middle class is in direct correlation to the decline of unions.

    That's a HUGE difference from big corps. and big money buying our laws, which is probably the major reason for the problems in this country.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    "Right to Work" three jobs with no benefits to support a family for the same or less income as one job provided with benefits.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    "Right to Work" three jobs with no benefits to support a family for the same or less income as one job provided with benefits.
    I'm afraid it's a race to the bottom.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant

    Member of Kathy S. has me on ignore club.


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  13. #13
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    Default

    The unions of today are not the same as before. Yes there was a need for unions to protect workers. However now unions work for themselves and for the Dems.
    Thirty years ago I temped at a company with union employees. After reviewing hundreds of files I learned that an union employee could do practically envy thing or if you wish nothing and maintain their job, pay and benefits. Don't feel like working and get fired? No problem, complain to the union stewards and they will get you back on the payroll, with back pay plus increases. People did this and other infractions multiple times, were "fired" and reinstated.. . multiple times.
    Unions need to evolve in order to stay relevant.
    Right to work is not perfect.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Yes, unions need to evolve and get out the corruption as in every part of this society. "Right to work" is a lie. It's a way to take advantage of people and pit them against each other when they don't have the ability or resources to fend for the basic rights.

    Taking away basic rights from people is not the answer. If we applied this the CEO's, they'd all be fired for their lack of work compared to their salaries, but since they're making the rules, they make them for themselves. I would imagine the corruption in the majority of union workers is miniscule compared to the CEO's.


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  15. #15
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    fooler, I have not ever had experience with your union experience. Mr. stolen is union and he complains at times, collective bargaining is just that not everyone benefits but I have witnessed union members fired. They have a right to a hearing but that is the only benefit from the union. I don't know of any union that operates to keep bad apples employed, most want them gone as well.

    My company is not union but we must pay union wages for construction.


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    Thirty years ago I temped at a company with union employees. After reviewing hundreds of files I learned that an union employee could do practically envy thing or if you wish nothing and maintain their job, pay and benefits.
    30 years ago, maybe. Hopefully, those issues have been addressed. Human capital is not exactly a static sector.

    I belong to a union. It does not resemble what you describe in any way. Nor does it remotely resemble any of the other unions that are part of the larger workforce in my field.

    Unions are attacked mercilessly and blamed for crippling US productivity and competitiveness, mostly because corporate boards, CEOS, investment banks, and their ilk are trying to squeeze everything they can from their work force. A union is left to fight for things that should be considered basic human decency in the workplace -- like 40 hour work weeks, paid overtime, weekends off, non-working lunch hours, regular breaks, affordable health care, and paid vacation. American workers are guaranteed exactly ZERO vacation days per year, if a union can get two weeks' worth for its workers, it's fighting the good fight.

    One simple solution to lighten the burdens of the corporations is to have single-payer health care. But try serving that slice of reality to the ALEC folks. Their goal is everything for themselves and nothing -- from the workplace or from our tax dollars -- for the rest of us.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    30 years ago, maybe. Hopefully, those issues have been addressed. Human capital is not exactly a static sector.

    I belong to a union. It does not resemble what you describe in any way. Nor does it remotely resemble any of the other unions that are part of the larger workforce in my field.

    Unions are attacked mercilessly and blamed for crippling US productivity and competitiveness, mostly because corporate boards, CEOS, investment banks, and their ilk are trying to squeeze everything they can from their work force. A union is left to fight for things that should be considered basic human decency in the workplace -- like 40 hour work weeks, paid overtime, weekends off, non-working lunch hours, regular breaks, affordable health care, and paid vacation. American workers are guaranteed exactly ZERO vacation days per year, if a union can get two weeks' worth for its workers, it's fighting the good fight.

    One simple solution to lighten the burdens of the corporations is to have single-payer health care. But try serving that slice of reality to the ALEC folks. Their goal is everything for themselves and nothing -- from the workplace or from our tax dollars -- for the rest of us.
    I know many business here that are not union and provide all that and more for their work force.
    I think that unions are not the only ones that can claim that.

    By the way, TX is a right to work state.
    Many won't work where a union is present and have good reasons for it, like very good working conditions and benefits without one.
    In the trades that service the building industry here, union workers are not that well thought of by those non-union, that have to work behind them and fix what those didn't do right.
    I have heard them say such and such would have been fired, his work was so shoddy, but "he was union".

    Isolated cases? Maybe, who knows.

    If an employer is bad, word gets around and he can't find enough employees soon enough.


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    My mother waited tables and belonged to a union. She had health insurance and a pension when she retired.

    Bluey, what exactly is your issue with unions ? You seem to make statements with no facts. What were you "underwhelmed" about ?
    I thought we were bashing politicians....


    Unions got us to the level of average wealth were we are at ow, no doubt.
    However, in certain areas unions can and do cripple productivity.

    Unions need to be cleaned up and returned to their roots.
    because, without unions to keep big corporations honest, we would be back in the stone ages in a hurry!

    yes, companies can function very well without unions. but with union jobs available, they have to adhere to a minimum standard.

    however, Unions pay lobbyists, they don't make law.

    on the other hand, politicians seem to be double dipping....in the end the unconnected masses pay the piper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Unions are such altar boys, right?

    They never influence anyone, the naive workers think they are in for them, when they are, like any other acquiring power, one more of the old boys network.

    That is how the game is played, has always, in all societies you care to look under the table at what really makes them function as they do.
    You either play along or get eaten.
    Today even more so, at a global level, not just national.

    I agree, scary when you are sitting out there, helpless, looking at the light at the end of the tunnel, wondering if it is indeed light, or a train about to run over you.

    Working in agriculture teaches you oh so much, as I am sure does in other fields, where what is going on at the top will greatly affect you.
    I basically agree, except that a collective bargaining agreement is virtually the only protection the average worker can have. In most places, employees are at-will and can be fired without cause. That's not to say that collective bargaining doesn't protect people who should be fired, but it is some protection against corporate whim.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    I thought we were bashing politicians....


    Unions got us to the level of average wealth were we are at ow, no doubt.
    However, in certain areas unions can and do cripple productivity.

    Unions need to be cleaned up and returned to their roots.
    because, without unions to keep big corporations honest, we would be back in the stone ages in a hurry!

    yes, companies can function very well without unions. but with union jobs available, they have to adhere to a minimum standard.

    however, Unions pay lobbyists, they don't make law.

    on the other hand, politicians seem to be double dipping....in the end the unconnected masses pay the piper.

    Amen. Unions are far from perfect, but at least they do protect the average worker. And despite what some would have you believe, union membership has been on a steady decline for the last two decades as American industry has been offshored.


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