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  1. #841
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    Interesting that being an owner counts as "international experience".

    Given that the USEF's most important legal duty is as its NGB status, it's not too surprising that we'd always want someone with some experience and allegiance to the international function in place. That doesn't preclude someone from having both breed and international discipline experience... indeed, it's rather tragic in my mind that people combine those experiences far less than perhaps they used to. Alan Balch, for example, went from AHSA to ASHA, the Saddlebred association.

    Chrystine Jones Tauber won the Medal and Maclay finals in 1965 and rode international jumpers in the late 60's.

    In David's case, he went right from competing to USEF president, in part because of the particular tensions involved in creating USA Equestrian and then USEF. In Chrystine's case, her resume with governance and judging and the like is long and rich, longer than her elite competitive career at this point. She wouldn't count as an Active Athlete for example, as David would have when he took over.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclipse View Post
    Firstly: EM you make me sick!

    I don't understand why USEF couldn't get her, at least, for the stacking of all these drugs? She says they were all under the legal allowed limit BUT when you combine them all together she's waaaaaay above the limit. I.just.don't.get.it!!!
    With all due respect, if you don't get it, then you need to read the D&M rules. It is indeed illegal now to stack two NSAIDS. The others? Not illegal, but also not all of those drugs are used to do the same thing.

    I understand the first-glance surprise and outrage at a show pony with a huge list of meds. The L A Times did the same thing, complete with pictures of syringes, for race horses.

    But if you know what you are doing/what all those do, it's a "meh." There's a legitimate issue with drugging horses for nefarious purposes out there. The blanket objection doesn't help those trying to make the rules better and more sensitive.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  3. #843
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    poltroon, it's possible the international experience rule came post AHSA when rules had to be modified to meet USOC requirements.

    mvp, eclipse, by my reading of the meds list in the NYT is there was no stacking of NSAIDs. It was pretty confusing, but appeared that one pony was getting arquel and another (humble) was getting banamine, not one pony getting both (illegal under current rule). At least from the list provided, it did not look like stacking just a disorganized but readable(ish) meds list, and I believe the drug test confirmed that, so I suspect it is true. It's not like testing for stacked NSAIDs is out of the box testing for the USEF lab, right? There's a lot of problems with this whole thing, but illegal amounts of drugs approved under the the therapeutic rule does not appear to be one of the issues.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


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  4. #844
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    OT, but I think Balch was somehow connected to the National Horse Show before he became AHSA president. Now he's a professional horse organization CEO. I think I read that he is now the head of the California Thoroughbred Association.

    Poltroon, maybe they didn't want to disqualify Jane Clark from future service when they wrote the bylaws.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    OT, but I think Balch was somehow connected to the National Horse Show before he became AHSA president. Now he's a professional horse organization CEO. I think I read that he is now the head of the California Thoroughbred Association.
    He was a manager at Santa Anita for a while too, and managed the equestrian events at Santa Anita for Los Angeles in 1984.

    (Heh: while fact-checking myself, I found an awesome article with cool memories and photos from Balch:
    http://arcadiasbest.com/2009/07/sant...pics-memories/
    )

    Poltroon, maybe they didn't want to disqualify Jane Clark from future service when they wrote the bylaws.


    I'm sure that the NGB/Ted Stevens Act is the reason it's legally required, but we're probably the only Olympic sport that has 'owners' in quite the same way. I wonder if you can be President of USA Gymnastics by being a sponsor?
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  6. #846
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    Most definitely the reason our NF is lead by an individual with "international" experience is due to the Ted Stevens Act. The Act also mandates a prescribed number of active athletes be seated on the Board. (guess that makes one of EM's ponies eligible for a seat;-). Check out one of EM's earlier posts)
    Seriously - that Act, if you want to wade through it, explains why we- the masses - are subject to so many mandates that have little to do with equestrian and nothing to do with Hunters and Equitation.



  7. #847
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    Runny thing is that in the language of the Ted Stevens Act and, IIRC, some of the language of the USEF bylaws, it's all about AMATEUR athletics. Hasn't be anything amateur in xports since Avery Brundage left the IOC. In fact a large part of the problems in this are from professionals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby G. Weber View Post
    Most definitely the reason our NF is lead by an individual with "international" experience is due to the Ted Stevens Act. The Act also mandates a prescribed number of active athletes be seated on the Board. (guess that makes one of EM's ponies eligible for a seat;-). Check out one of EM's earlier posts)
    Seriously - that Act, if you want to wade through it, explains why we- the masses - are subject to so many mandates that have little to do with equestrian and nothing to do with Hunters and Equitation.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  8. #848
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    Sorry about the typos above. Board won't let me edit.

    20% of all USEF boards and committees have to have eligible athletes who defined as those with international experience within the past ten years.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby G. Weber View Post
    Most definitely the reason our NF is lead by an individual with "international" experience is due to the Ted Stevens Act. The Act also mandates a prescribed number of active athletes be seated on the Board. (guess that makes one of EM's ponies eligible for a seat;-). Check out one of EM's earlier posts)
    Seriously - that Act, if you want to wade through it, explains why we- the masses - are subject to so many mandates that have little to do with equestrian and nothing to do with Hunters and Equitation.
    This explains a lot.
    ExchangeHunterJumper.com
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  10. #850
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    I've tried googling And looking at USEF's info for the answer to this but I thought you couldn't give Banamine and Robaxin at the same time at a horse show. I know in my reading of the USEF hearing, they alluded to Suesue stacking and that Suesue should have filled in a meds report. They also mentioned having a receipt for 25-50 syringes of Carolina Gold purchased by Suesue from Juan Gamboa!



  11. #851
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    Seems to me the USEF should have suspended the trainer until she produces a full list of the drugs administered to the pony. I think the article said the USEF didn't have that power? May have been discussed elsewhere in this thread, but admittedly, I did not read thru all 43 pages!

    Not that this action is going to resolve the problem, but my opinion is that trainer needs to be held accountable.
    My treasures do not chink, nor glitter. They carry me to great heights, they gleam in the sun, and they neigh in the night. That is my life, at the end of the day.


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  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsegurl View Post
    Seems to me the USEF should have suspended the trainer until she produces a full list of the drugs administered to the pony. I think the article said the USEF didn't have that power? May have been discussed elsewhere in this thread, but admittedly, I did not read thru all 43 pages!

    Not that this action is going to resolve the problem, but my opinion is that trainer needs to be held accountable.
    They don't have the power to subpoena.


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  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limerick View Post
    I've tried googling And looking at USEF's info for the answer to this but I thought you couldn't give Banamine and Robaxin at the same time at a horse show.
    It's permissable under the current rule to give robaxin (not an nsaid) in conjunction with an single nsaid (banamine, bute, arquel, etc).
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


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  14. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    With all due respect, if you don't get it, then you need to read the D&M rules. It is indeed illegal now to stack two NSAIDS. The others? Not illegal, but also not all of those drugs are used to do the same thing.

    I understand the first-glance surprise and outrage at a show pony with a huge list of meds. The L A Times did the same thing, complete with pictures of syringes, for race horses.

    But if you know what you are doing/what all those do, it's a "meh." There's a legitimate issue with drugging horses for nefarious purposes out there. The blanket objection doesn't help those trying to make the rules better and more sensitive.
    "Meh", to you, perhaps.

    "Ack!" to others.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #855
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    Nov. 30, 2008
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    Yeah, I thought I read that. Horrible. If PETA exposed this problem, oh boy would there be big noise.
    My treasures do not chink, nor glitter. They carry me to great heights, they gleam in the sun, and they neigh in the night. That is my life, at the end of the day.



  16. #856
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    Jan. 17, 2001
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    California
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    Re: the poster who mentioned the strict rules in eventing, and the great participant adherence to the rules: I think that's awesome. In eventing, it's pretty rare to find a horse selling for extraordinary amounts of money due to its performance. As well, they are not rewarded for going around quietly (Thank goodness!) So...no real incentive to drug the crap out of the horses for sedation purposes, and no gigantic money classes at stake. Last summer there was a 3 Star at our local horse park; lots (I mean lots) of those horses had names like "500OBO" and "Freetoagoodhome." Great eventers (both equine and human) come from all sorts of backrounds; generally, the upper level hunters are bred in the purple. Lots of money at stake for all owners/trainers/riders involved.



  17. #857
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    Eventing (except for FEI level) are the same rules that hunters show under with regard to drug rules. Exact same.

    If eventing were to grow in popularity to the size of hunter shows, I suspect you would start to see the prices of horses go up as well. In that regard it is about supply and demand. Only difference is that with horses, anyone can set the value of said horse. There are no guidelines, much like baseball teams "buying" players. A team (owner) can pay what it wants for X. If enough express interest the price goes up. If no one wants it, the price drops.



  18. #858
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    I hope Eventing stays where it is. Right now it is sane, affordable, teaches horsemanship, and does not require super $$$ to buy clothes or horses. God forbid it ever becomes the circus the H/J world is.


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  19. #859
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    Dec. 4, 2002
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    Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of EM, but I do feel the need to jump in here and have my say on some of these medications. Some of you look at Adequan and Legend and think, "OMG, all of these injections to keep a lame pony going!!" I would have to say this: Adequan and Legend are very expensive and safe medications given by caring owners to keep their animals sound! Many of the owners gladly spend money in an effort to keep their beloved animals confortable. So when I look at that overal medications list, I also say, "meh" when it comes to Adequan and Legend. Do I believe that the trainer in question gave that pony Legend in the early am that caused it to drop dead- nope. Just my opinion.


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  20. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsalem View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of EM, but I do feel the need to jump in here and have my say on some of these medications. Some of you look at Adequan and Legend and think, "OMG, all of these injections to keep a lame pony going!!" I would have to say this: Adequan and Legend are very expensive and safe medications given by caring owners to keep their animals sound! Many of the owners gladly spend money in an effort to keep their beloved animals confortable. So when I look at that overal medications list, I also say, "meh" when it comes to Adequan and Legend. Do I believe that the trainer in question gave that pony Legend in the early am that caused it to drop dead- nope. Just my opinion.
    I don't think anyone is saying Adequan and Legend are "bad" and shouldn't be used in competition horses, or that their use means the horse is lame and not fit to compete. And unlike competing a horse on NSAIDs, they will not mask lameness in a sore horse but actually do have some benefit in treating the underlying cause of soreness and therefore making the horse more sound. I think that the Adequan and Legend only entered the debate in the first place because EM said that Legend is what was in the syringe that the pony was injected with before he dropped dead. Although the question was raised whether there was any need (or benefit) for a horse or pony to get Legend right before competition. I don't think anyone is saying Adequan and Legend should be banned when used as directed.

    On the other hand, do all of EM's ponies have severe allergies AND arthritis? Why are we giving hormone shots to geldings?


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