The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 12 of 44 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 240 of 869
  1. #221
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2011
    Location
    Co
    Posts
    4,189

    Default

    Elizabeth Mandarino says the NYT "took the article off the front page and buried it". Hmm.. It's right there in the Sports section online, not "buried" at all...


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    15,325

    Default

    I'm sorry but it is all about money. If there wasn't so much money at the top it'd be less about quick results and shortcuts and getting it done regardless of the method. Ponies that lease for several thousand for ONE SHOW and you really think money isn't at the root of this?!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    8 members found this post helpful.

  3. #223
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
    Location
    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
    Posts
    14,294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bayboys View Post
    findeight, but how do you articulate in a rule that a horse may be given Robaxin for sore muscles but he may not be given Robaxin to make him quieter? I think that is the problem. So many legitimate meds have a sideline effect of making a horse "easier".
    I think that when a medication is being given in lieu of rest, it is no longer in the animal's best interest.

    A medication like an NSAID for an arthritic horse allows him to work which in many cases is actually beneficial to his long term health, just like it's beneficial for your grandmother to go out walking. A medication like Adequan which is meant to prevent arthritic changes in the first place is beneficial.

    I don't believe Robaxin for sore muscles is a beneficial use for a show horse. If the muscles are that sore, the horse needs time off. IMHO.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2006
    Posts
    997

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    I'm sorry but it is all about money. If there wasn't so much money at the top it'd be less about quick results and shortcuts and getting it done regardless of the method. Ponies that lease for several thousand for ONE SHOW and you really think money isn't at the root of this?!
    Yes...I REALLY think that money is NOT the root of all problems. Sure there are problems ... and sometimes money has a role AND sometimes it doesn't. Does the amount of money in the sport make it difficult for those of us with less to compete at the top levels ...sure nothing new about that. But there are just as many shortcuts at the local levelsand just as many abuses ...

    I'd rather spend time enlisting! ALL like minded people to change what is .... rich poor and in between ... than complain about the bad actors who happen to have money is ... they are just part of the problem like any other bad actors


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    15,325

    Default

    Money is the problem and solution. If the fines were proportional to the money at stake in "winning" there'd be a real disincentive. But as it stands, if cheating means a horse goes from $15,000 in value to $150,000 and the risk is a $300 fine and having somone else sign entry blanks for a while--- how is there any disincentive to play dirty. People who would cheat care about prestige and cash- so that's where the fines and public shaming have to hit them harder. Except... That might mean reduced revenue for USEF USHJA-- and therein lies a major problem.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #226
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2006
    Posts
    997

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Money is the problem and solution. If the fines were proportional to the money at stake in "winning" there'd be a real disincentive. But as it stands, if cheating means a horse goes from $15,000 in value to $150,000 and the risk is a $300 fine and having somone else sign entry blanks for a while--- how is there any disincentive to play dirty. People who would cheat care about prestige and cash- so that's where the fines and public shaming have to hit them harder. Except... That might mean reduced revenue for USEF USHJA-- and therein lies a major problem.
    We agreed that the penalties need to be substantial and, I think, that need to apply to EVEYONE associated with the horse - owner/rider/trainer/coach/groom -- because that will hurt pocketbooks and business.

    Where we do not agree that money - and that alone - prompts cheating. IME there are just as many people with no money looking for the quick win, prestige etc. Money does not make people like that - they just are



  7. #227
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2000
    Location
    a nice warm place
    Posts
    1,448

    Default

    [/QUOTE] I'd rather spend time enlisting! ALL like minded people to change what is .... rich poor and in between ... than complain about the bad actors who happen to have money is ... they are just part of the problem like any other bad actors[/QUOTE] by juststartingout


    I don't know if Mrs. Williams would agree.....she lost her money to file a protest and now is becoming embroiled in a lawsuit.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #228
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
    Location
    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
    Posts
    14,294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby G. Weber View Post
    I must agree with CB regarding Legend. I have administered Legend four hours out from a competition - to older, sore footed horses - on the advice of my vet. I would not classify this practice as off label.
    As an aside, "off-label" means the use of a drug for a purpose not originally tested/approved or in a manner not originally tested/approved by the drug company. Many vets (and human doctors) routinely use particular drugs off-label. It is not necessarily bad or good per se. In some cases it is done because of rigorous or promising research, and in some cases it is done based on someone's hunch.

    If you read the package insert, 4 hours before a competition is decidedly off-label.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #229
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2006
    Posts
    997

    Default

    I'd rather spend time enlisting! ALL like minded people to change what is .... rich poor and in between ... than complain about the bad actors who happen to have money is ... they are just part of the problem like any other bad actors[/QUOTE] by juststartingout


    I don't know if Mrs. Williams would agree.....she lost her money to file a protest and now is becoming embroiled in a lawsuit.[/QUOTE]

    ANd -- she did the right thing and that has a satisfaction all of its own. The suit against her - if it is even filed - is frivolous and everyone knows that... my guess - she would agree and she would probably do it all over again


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #230
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2007
    Location
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Posts
    1,218

    Default

    Just look who is on the cover of Practical Horseman this month.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #231
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2008
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juststartingout View Post
    Yes...I REALLY think that money is NOT the root of all problems. Sure there are problems ... and sometimes money has a role AND sometimes it doesn't. Does the amount of money in the sport make it difficult for those of us with less to compete at the top levels ...sure nothing new about that. But there are just as many shortcuts at the local levelsand just as many abuses ...
    I don't know where you are but in my area there are not nearly as many shortcuts and abuses at the local level, unless you count as abuse the ancient school ponies who SHOULD be allowed to show on some bute but who aren't given anything to make them more comfortable. Local show people around here don't have a clue about giving dex or IV magnesium to calm a horse. At the most you might see someone give their young horse a little ace. You might see a few people lunge before they get on but nothing like the LTD by grooms that you would see at a rated show.

    Most of the abuse we see at our local shows involves poorly conditioned or marginally sound horses who shouldn't be allowed off the farm and bad or scary riding. It could still be considered abuse but it is often a result of ignorance not willful disregard of both the rules and the animal's welfare.

    And yes money is a major factor that cannot be denied. If drugging a horse produces results in the ring that increases that horses value and if sales and commissions are big sources of income for trainers, then there's a huge incentive to do what it takes if everyone else is doing the same.



  12. #232
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2000
    Location
    a nice warm place
    Posts
    1,448

    Default

    And a frivilous suit can and will cost her thousands of dollars - not much satisfaction in that. I agree with you about everyone upset with this trying to make a change, but HOW? Filing protests aren't going to do it. How do you get USEF to make penalties harsh enough - it's only recently that they have even acknowledged the Carolina Gold and Magnesium injections when this has been common knowledge for years.

    I guess I'm just old and cynical.



  13. #233
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2006
    Posts
    997

    Default

    So -- there are all kinds of local circuits -- many many horses at schooling showing on Ace because its safer -- not sure who its safer for or how. The local rated shows where horses are drugged so that the overworked eq horses can function enough to get the juniors the points they need to qualify on courses that are lower than the required height and where some trainers negotiate who should win. The regional but not big time where all the same things take place.

    I am not saying that money has no role -- I am NOT naive...

    I AM saying let's stop dividing ourselves -- let's build a big tent and welcome everyone who is like minded -- isn't about time to stop dividing and work toward a common goal?

    And with this I am done - at least for a bit


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #234
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2012
    Location
    Somewhere down-under
    Posts
    152

    Default

    Well here would be my plan of attack.
    No drugs (any at all) to be injected 12-24 hours before a show. If you horse needs anything between that time and competing then why the eff are you competing it.The answer is zero tollerance during that period. ZERO.
    Now of course this isn't the easiest to enforce but this is we're YOU come in. You all have mobile phones attached to you, take a photo or video if you see something dodgy
    Harsher penelties for those who break the rules, for everyone, owner, rider and trainer. Starting at $2000 then I would double it for each time caught so 4000, 8000, 16000. If one of those claims ignorance, well that's your own fault. You should know what is happening with your horse. I don't care if you trainer told you it was fine, educate yourself!!! I can't go Kill someone and claim its ok because I was ignorant of the law. It's your own responsibility.
    Any positive tests, horse, rider and trainer unable to compete for 3 months, then 6, 9, 12, your out for good.


    Oh and I just have to add, that bute and Advil analogy. Not the same, you choose to compete through the pain or take pain relief. The horse gets no choice in this. Your standing at the top of a very slippery slope.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #235
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2011
    Location
    Co
    Posts
    4,189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PonyPenny View Post
    Just look who is on the cover of Practical Horseman this month.
    Who? (I don't subscribe anymore).



  16. #236
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    Who? (I don't subscribe anymore).
    Scott Stewart.



  17. #237
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2000
    Location
    Southern California - on a freeway someplace
    Posts
    9,621

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    Who? (I don't subscribe anymore).
    Scott Stewart
    The Evil Chem Prof



  18. #238
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,120

    Default


    Are there valid reasons for vets to sell liquid magnesium to clients for competition horses? I thought its therapeutic purpose was for a "cocktail" for putting down an animal.

    If there is no valid reason, perhaps USEF could fine those caught with it at shows?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #239
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2011
    Location
    Co
    Posts
    4,189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
    Scott Stewart
    Oh. I can't say I'm surprised.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #240
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2000
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    14,879

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by annaelizabeth View Post

    Oh and I just have to add, that bute and Advil analogy. Not the same, you choose to compete through the pain or take pain relief. The horse gets no choice in this. Your standing at the top of a very slippery slope.
    Some of us work at horse shows. It's our job, just as most horses have a "job," unless they are retired in a big field with Black Beauty, as another poster put it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. New york times
    By Airfern in forum Racing
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May. 18, 2012, 12:20 AM
  2. New York Times Front Page article 4/30/12
    By Lizzie in forum Racing
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: May. 2, 2012, 01:58 AM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: Sep. 28, 2010, 09:39 PM
  4. New York Times article on air vests
    By JAGold in forum Eventing
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: Sep. 13, 2010, 10:24 PM
  5. Replies: 75
    Last Post: Apr. 9, 2008, 08:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •